War

natureboygrower said:
I have hardly given up, Cap. Quite the opposite. I care very much for the future of the country but simply don't find everything so dire. You seem to want to label me as something because I don't support the war in Ukraine 100%? Lots of people across the world feel the same as me.
Btw, Riu is the only interactions I have online. Don't have socials, never had fb. I am clearly better off than the majority of the world because of this. I partly blame sm for the way we now treat eachother.
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Good to hear you haven't given up, I guess. Yes, SM is totally infected with propaganda meant to divide us. By the sounds of the censorship happening to laddyd, it seems the tech oligarchy is fully on board.

Sorry if you feel as though I'm attempting to Iabel you. Not my intention. I don't support war in any sense, and the Ukraine had no choice but defend itself as it continues to do to this day. Putin has stated many times he longs for the days of the Soviet Union, and he has proven by his actions he will pursue that idea through any means he deems necessary. He hates the west and our lifestyle and values. That's all I'm saying. Of course everyone wants the war to be over, but to cave to Putin and just give him everything he wants is weak and will only embolden him. To have J.D. and the felon berate and bully a vulnerable ally is simply wrong. Do you agree with this administration in how it is "dealing" with this issue?
 
JD One Eighty was repeating Russian talking points, word for word. My fear is The Donelle will lift Russian sanctions and put them on Ukraine. Hell, he may even send arms to Russia. Who would stop him? We've seen the only people in the GOP with balls are the two lady Senators.

I hope the rest of the western world has enough arms in reserve to give to Ukraine.
 
Nugnewbie said:
The oligarchy is fully entrenched. Press pool now under POTUS control. Checks and balance going by the wayside for authoritarianism. No speculation here. The actions (which of course speaks louder than words) of this administration cannot be construed any other way. It's blatantly obvious. I'm sure there will be more degradation of democratic principles to come, but a great deal of change has already occurred. Scary times.

Wonder if Canada will have to rethink it's policy of no nuclear weapons. If the Ukraine still had theirs, Putin may have thought twice about attacking and invading.
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Yeah, EXACTLY what I, we,the world DOESN'T need is nuke proliferation,I'd actually like to see the US announce a no first use policy.China has one but no one joined and now Xi is fudging on it,maybe Vlad can be persuaded as part of a future Ukraine deal. Prob. wishful thinking Rose Colored Glasses on my part but Japan,S Korea,Canada,the Europeans,and perish the thought the Middle East all copping nukes is pretty insane to ponder. The US is ready to spend mucho $$$$ on the Sentinel, a new ICBM, ridiculous,land based,and vulnerable. Conventional weaponry is advancing SO FAST w/AI,hypersonics,drone tech. that pretty much anything,anywhere can be taken out way more efficiently without surrounding destruction and of course radiation.
 
doublejj said:
Zelensky should have just quoted George Washington “I'll die on my feet before I'll live on my knees” and walked out
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I wonder how "ballsy" the VP in the oval office would have gotten had Zelenskey rode shotgun w/ Vitali Klitschko,the mayor of Kiev,a former H.Weight Champ., muscle and STRENGTH that Trump respects so much. Square jawed and 6'5 sitting there w/Zelenskey w/a stern look on his face to counter Vance may have had a impact.
 
CCGNZ said:
Yeah, EXACTLY what I, we,the world DOESN'T need is nuke proliferation,I'd actually like to see the US announce a no first use policy.China has one but no one joined and now Xi is fudging on it,maybe Vlad can be persuaded as part of a future Ukraine deal. Prob. wishful thinking Rose Colored Glasses on my part but Japan,S Korea,Canada,the Europeans,and perish the thought the Middle East all copping nukes is pretty insane to ponder. The US is ready to spend mucho $$$$ on the Sentinel, a new ICBM, ridiculous,land based,and vulnerable. Conventional weaponry is advancing SO FAST w/AI,hypersonics,drone tech. that pretty much anything,anywhere can be taken out way more efficiently without surrounding destruction and of course radiation.
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No, I don't want nuclear proliferation. But, if the Ukraine had not signed a deal to give up nukes for a security guarantee which Russia has violated, perhaps they would not have been invaded.
 
Nugnewbie said:
No, I don't want nuclear proliferation. But, if the Ukraine had not signed a deal to give up nukes for a security guarantee which Russia has violated, perhaps they would not have been invaded.
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I thought your point was pretty clear. They gave up their nukes as part of an agreement and now we are reneging.
I thought it was disingenuous to imply otherwise.
 
Nugnewbie said:
No, I don't want nuclear proliferation. But, if the Ukraine had not signed a deal to give up nukes for a security guarantee which Russia has violated, perhaps they would not have been invaded.
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It's possible,though almost all would have been obsolete by 2014,and Ukraine hasn't manufactured it's own ballistic missiles (conventional) even now,it takes big $$$ to maintain readiness for nukes. They are a ball and chain that sink budgets,cause constant worry over security,and in the end you don't even know if you'll actually use it. We've had MANY near misses in the US. B-52's crashing (w/bombs on board) and one safety switch away from detonation,a lost thermo-nuke in a swamp , a Titan missile of megaton range blowing up in a silo in Ark.,and many others. I can't say Ukraine was really politically/economically stable enough to really keep those nukes. Ukraine is similar to Poland,their geographical location is tragic, and they are caught between somewhat reckless NATO expansion and a Russia whose leader considers it his due to prior Soviet influence/investment.The whole thing is tragic, Putin's been bitching for yrs. about NATO encroachment. The thought of a NATO Ukraine (a former satellite state) on his border, spurred on by pretty weak response to 2014 (Crimea seizure) and here we are.
 
CCGNZ said:
It's possible,though almost all would have been obsolete by 2014,and Ukraine hasn't manufactured it's own ballistic missiles (conventional) even now,it takes big $$$ to maintain readiness for nukes. They are a ball and chain that sink budgets,cause constant worry over security,and in the end you don't even know if you'll actually use it. We've had MANY near misses in the US. B-52's crashing (w/bombs on board) and one safety switch away from detonation,a lost thermo-nuke in a swamp , a Titan missile of megaton range blowing up in a silo in Ark.,and many others. I can't say Ukraine was really politically/economically stable enough to really keep those nukes. Ukraine is similar to Poland,their geographical location is tragic, and they are caught between somewhat reckless NATO expansion and a Russia whose leader considers it his due to prior Soviet influence/investment.The whole thing is tragic, Putin's been bitching for yrs. about NATO encroachment. The thought of a NATO Ukraine (a former satellite state) on his border, spurred on by pretty weak response to 2014 (Crimea seizure) and here we are.
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Russia is an imperialist aggressor, NATO a defensive alliance. That's the black and white of how I see it. I'm not qualified to really think beyond that. Although all concerned agree it's more complicated than that. Much more complicated. However, these are facts that can't be disputed.
 
Nugnewbie said:
Russia is an imperialist aggressor, NATO a defensive alliance. That's the black and white of how I see it. I'm not qualified to really think beyond that. Although all concerned agree it's more complicated than that. Much more complicated. However, these are facts that can't be disputed.
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No doubt,I DON'T condone Putin's actions,the shocking war crimes in Bucha and the kidnapping of children to indoctrinate them in Russia, to the utter destruction of Eastern Ukraine ( no precision warfare more like Verdun). I do think the West dismissed Russian concerns (they HAVE been invaded and are paranoid due to that history). Putin has referred to conversation in the past w/Western counterparts and said he'd received assurances in the past that NATO wouldn't continue expansion. Then we had the celebrations that WE'D won the cold war when we probably should have tempered our glee. I also think the Russians feel their contribution/suffering in WW2 has been glossed over by the West also. NONE of this makes Putin's invasion justifiable of course just that perceived slights real or imagined didn't help matters.
 
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