Whites and blacks in US 'disagree on racism'

Ace Yonder

Ace Yonder

Well-Known Member
Violence is ubiquitous to humanity all across the globe, and always has been. Every culture on the planet was and is violent, against its own people and against others. Singling out any group as the prime perpetrators by something as intangible as race is both naive and inane.
 
bluntmassa1

bluntmassa1

Well-Known Member
bearkat42 said:
No badder than some of them whites.
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Yeah, certainly no badder than the Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Afghans, Columbians, Mexicans, Cuban's, etc. Etc.

I really don't know every race seems pretty bad ass to me not just white we really ain't that bad ass NATO can't take the Afghan people and we have a multi racial force.
 
bearkat42

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
Ace Yonder said:
Violence is ubiquitous to humanity all across the globe, and always has been. Every culture on the planet was and is violent, against its own people and against others. Singling out any group as the prime perpetrators by something as intangible as race is both naive and inane.
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American history seems to tell a different story.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
bearkat42 said:
White people are, by far, the most violent people in the history of the world.
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@CrocodileStunter if you are not too busy fellating a golden retriever, let's you and me play a game.

you keep asking why black people are so violent. so let me go ahead and lay down some violence by white people. if you can show me the equivalent by blacks, i will leave the site forever.

i'll start: the holocaust.

your turn, scumbag.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Ace Yonder said:
How so? American history is filled with violence, just liked the history of every nation on the planet.
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Institutionalized, perpetual race based slavery in the was pretty different from what went on in most of history. Segregation was also pretty special, not unheard of but uncommon. Today, prison population of the US is out of wack in the rest of the developed world and racial demographics in prisons that are out of wack with US society. Recall too the genocide of original inhabitants.

I suppose that we could look back on European history and point to some pretty grim times and race/class based atrocities too. . Our record over the past four hundred years is not a model to hold up as one that should be copied by others.

The ingrained and common view of racial inequality as shown in that survey shows how little we've progressed since the era civil rights action. I found BK's original post depressing in that even in the Hillary camp 22% of respondents were racist tools.
 
Ace Yonder

Ace Yonder

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Institutionalized, perpetual race based slavery in the was pretty different from what went on in most of history. Segregation was also pretty special, not unheard of but uncommon. Today, prison population of the US is out of wack in the rest of the developed world and racial demographics in prisons that are out of wack with US society. Recall too the genocide of original inhabitants.

I suppose that we could look back on European history and point to some pretty grim times and race/class based atrocities too. . Our record over the past four hundred years is not a model to hold up as one that should be copied by others.

The ingrained and common view of racial inequality as shown in that survey shows how little we've progressed since the era civil rights action. I found BK's original post depressing in that even in the Hillary camp 22% of respondents were racist tools.
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Firstly, American slavery was hardly unique, slavery was around long before it and long after it (slavery is still common in some areas of the world, and worse discrimination like the Dalit caste in India), but none of that changes the fact that even if it isn't race based, EVERY culture has a long and vibrant history of violence, going all the way back to when the Cro-Magnons wiped out the Neanderthals. Violence is not unique to White people, and pretending that it is won't help anything.
 
T

ThickStemz

Well-Known Member
bearkat42 said:
"Unarmed"
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There are unarmed ones, that is exactly just what I said, but most of the time they're not accidentally shooting the middle class black man walking in the mall. They're shooting dudes in the hood at the wrong place at wrong time because so many of the men in those areas are armed and dangerous.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Ace Yonder said:
Firstly, American slavery was hardly unique, slavery was around long before it and long after it (slavery is still common in some areas of the world, and worse discrimination like the Dalit caste in India), but none of that changes the fact that even if it isn't race based, EVERY culture has a long and vibrant history of violence, going all the way back to when the Cro-Magnons wiped out the Neanderthals. Violence is not unique to White people, and pretending that it is won't help anything.
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I don't think I'm pretending anything. I think you are ignorant of the facts.

The current theory on the disappearance of Neanderthals is that they were genetically lost in the gene pool. Homo Sapiens are a randy fecund lot and simply out-reproduced Neanderthal. Neanderthal genes are found in European gene pools, its just that there were never many Neanderthal around to begin with. But really, do you really want to compare what's happening today with what happened like 70,000 years ago?

Eternal race base slavery is unique in history, especially Western history. Prior to the colonization of the Americas, there were only two slave based societies in civilized history, ancient Greece and Rome. The Spanish and Mexican colonies in America did have huge slave populations in the 16th and 18th centuries but those were not eternal race based slavery. Slaves could be freed or could buy their way to freedom. Also, freedom could be achieved by conversion to Catholicism though that may have been observed only when the slave became too weak to work. By the early to mid 1800's, the largest population of slaves were in the US south. There, slaves and their children could never be free. Statutory race based slavery prevented owners from freeing their own slaves or a slave from purchasing their own freedom. All justified by pernicious racism that portrayed the black person as inferior to even the most idiotic white. This is what I say when I call it unique.

Dalit repression and slavery is a race and class based economic issue of debts and bondage and not the same as what was experienced in the southern US.
 
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Ace Yonder

Ace Yonder

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I don't think I'm pretending anything. I think you are ignorant of the facts.

The current theory on the disappearance of Neanderthals is that they were genetically lost in the gene pool. Homo Sapiens are a randy fecund lot and simply out-reproduced Neanderthal. Neanderthal genes are found in European gene pools, its just that there were never many Neanderthal around to begin with. But really, do you really want to compare what's happening today with what happened like 70,000 years ago?

Eternal race base slavery is unique in history, especially Western history. Prior to the colonization of the Americas, there were only two slave based societies in civilized history, ancient Greece and Rome. The Spanish and Mexican colonies in America did have huge slave populations in the 16th and 18th centuries but those were not eternal race based slavery. Slaves could be freed or could buy their way to freedom. Also, freedom could be achieved by conversion to Catholicism though that may have been observed only when the slave became too weak to work. By the early to mid 1800's, the largest population of slaves were in the US south. There, slaves and their children could never be free. Statutory race based slavery prevented owners from freeing their own slaves or a slave from purchasing their own freedom. All justified by pernicious racism that portrayed the black person as inferior to even the most idiotic white. This is what I say when I call it unique.

Dalit repression and slavery is a race and class based economic issue of debts and bondage and not the same as what was experienced in the southern US.
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We are in 100% agreement about how reprehensible and horrific American slavery was. But this particular discussion (at least the part I am currently involved in) was not about race based slavery. This was a discussion of general violence, and the ridiculous notion that "White people are, by far, the most violent people in the history of the world". My position, and I stand by it, is that every civilization that has ever existed has practiced violence. Are you saying that because they didn't have "eternal race based slavery" that they were therefore non-violent? When Tamerlane killed 5% of the world's population, when 25 million were killed when the Qing dynasty conquered the Ming dynasty, when 30 million were killed by the Mongol conquests, when 30+ million people died in the Taiping Rebellion, around 30 million dead in the Chinese Civil War, 2 million killed by Shaka Zulu's conquests, nearly 3 million dead in the Cambodian genocide, nearly 2 million dead in the Armenian genocide, as many as 1.5 million people sacrificed by the Aztecs, all committed by non-Whites, were those not massive acts of violence? White people have committed heinous atrocities, but they are far from alone in that. Violence is NOT unique to any one race.


EDIT: Some numbers on contemporary slavery (http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/05/31/india-tops-slavery-index_n_10222086.html)
"[...] nearly 46 million people are enslaved globally.[...] In the last report in 2014, India had nearly 14.3 million people enslaved.[...] Behind India was China (3.39 million), Pakistan (2.13 million), Bangladesh (1.53 million) and Uzbekistan (1.23 million). The index said that these five countries combined accounted for almost 58 per cent of the world s enslaved, or 26.6 million people."
 
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Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Ace Yonder said:
We are in 100% agreement about how reprehensible and horrific American slavery was. But this particular discussion (at least the part I am currently involved in) was not about race based slavery. This was a discussion of general violence, and the ridiculous notion that "White people are, by far, the most violent people in the history of the world". My position, and I stand by it, is that every civilization that has ever existed has practiced violence. Are you saying that because they didn't have "eternal race based slavery" that they were therefore non-violent? When Tamerlane killed 5% of the world's population, when 25 million were killed when the Qing dynasty conquered the Ming dynasty, when 30 million were killed by the Mongol conquests, when 30+ million people died in the Taiping Rebellion, around 30 million dead in the Chinese Civil War, 2 million killed by Shaka Zulu's conquests, nearly 3 million dead in the Cambodian genocide, nearly 2 million dead in the Armenian genocide, as many as 1.5 million people sacrificed by the Aztecs, all committed by non-Whites, were those not massive acts of violence? White people have committed heinous atrocities, but they are far from alone in that. Violence is NOT unique to any one race.


EDIT: Some numbers on contemporary slavery (http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/05/31/india-tops-slavery-index_n_10222086.html)
"[...] nearly 46 million people are enslaved globally.[...] In the last report in 2014, India had nearly 14.3 million people enslaved.[...] Behind India was China (3.39 million), Pakistan (2.13 million), Bangladesh (1.53 million) and Uzbekistan (1.23 million). The index said that these five countries combined accounted for almost 58 per cent of the world s enslaved, or 26.6 million people."
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Umm, no. Your argument with me centers on the pernicious racism and institutional violence in the US that even today causes division and harms people's lives. I have no interest in your argument to defend the white races. That's ridiculous and strange.
 
Ace Yonder

Ace Yonder

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Umm, no. Your argument with me centers on the pernicious racism and institutional violence in the US that even today causes division and harms people's lives. I have no interest in your argument to defend the white races. That's ridiculous and strange.
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Since when? You replied to one of my posts which was part of a discussion about exactly what I said it was about, and you have now tried to turn it into a discussion about something else. I was not involved in a discussion about "pernicious racism" with you, or anyone else. I just see Croc Stunter and bearkat throwing wild accusations about "No YOUR race is the violent one" and my point is ALL races (not that "race" is even a thing, it is literally a made up social construct and has no valid biological basis) are, and always have been, violent. Only racists believe their own race is somehow better and less violent than the others. Humanity is a violent species.
 
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StevieBevie

StevieBevie

Well-Known Member
Slavery sucks, but whites have owned black slaves, and blacks have also owned black slaves and white have owned white slaves and blacks have owned white slaves, and the list goes on and on like that....there is no race that gets to say that they have not owned slaves or been owned as slaves.....is a part of Homo Sapiens history!
 
StevieBevie

StevieBevie

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I don't think I'm pretending anything. I think you are ignorant of the facts.

The current theory on the disappearance of Neanderthals is that they were genetically lost in the gene pool. Homo Sapiens are a randy fecund lot and simply out-reproduced Neanderthal. Neanderthal genes are found in European gene pools, its just that there were never many Neanderthal around to begin with. But really, do you really want to compare what's happening today with what happened like 70,000 years ago?

Eternal race base slavery is unique in history, especially Western history. Prior to the colonization of the Americas, there were only two slave based societies in civilized history, ancient Greece and Rome. The Spanish and Mexican colonies in America did have huge slave populations in the 16th and 18th centuries but those were not eternal race based slavery. Slaves could be freed or could buy their way to freedom. Also, freedom could be achieved by conversion to Catholicism though that may have been observed only when the slave became too weak to work. By the early to mid 1800's, the largest population of slaves were in the US south. There, slaves and their children could never be free. Statutory race based slavery prevented owners from freeing their own slaves or a slave from purchasing their own freedom. All justified by pernicious racism that portrayed the black person as inferior to even the most idiotic white. This is what I say when I call it unique.

Dalit repression and slavery is a race and class based economic issue of debts and bondage and not the same as what was experienced in the southern US.
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In the 16th – 18th century, Africans enslaved 1.5 million White Europeans in the Barbary Slave Trade. African Muslims raided up the coastlines of Europe, particularly the British Isles but even as far as Iceland, kidnapping and enslaving White European Christians. The men were galley slaves, and the women were sex slaves.
Every race is guilty...
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Ace Yonder said:
Since when? You replied to one of my posts which was part of a discussion about exactly what I said it was about, and you have now tried to turn it into a discussion about something else. I was not involved in a discussion about "pernicious racism" with you, or anyone else. I just see Croc Stunter and bearkat throwing wild accusations about "No YOUR race is the violent one" and my point is ALL races (not that "race" is even a thing, it is literally a made up social construct and has no valid biological basis) are, and always have been, violent. Only racists believe their own race is somehow better and less violent than the others. Humanity is a violent species.
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Your own words: "How so? American history is filled with violence, just liked the history of every nation on the planet."

We have a problem with institutionalized racism and violence in the US. That's a big enough discussion.
 
Ace Yonder

Ace Yonder

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Your own words: "How so? American history is filled with violence, just liked the history of every nation on the planet."

We have a problem with institutionalized racism and violence in the US. That's a big enough discussion.
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I didn't bring you into it, you brought yourself into it, and I am totally fine with you staying out of it. Do you want me to lay out how the discussion went down so you can see what you were responding to in the first place?
 
StevieBevie

StevieBevie

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Your own words: "How so? American history is filled with violence, just liked the history of every nation on the planet."

We have a problem with institutionalized racism and violence in the US. That's a big enough discussion.
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We do have an issue with racism, and it goes both ways!
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
StevieBevie said:
In the 16th – 18th century, Africans enslaved 1.5 million White Europeans in the Barbary Slave Trade. African Muslims raided up the coastlines of Europe, particularly the British Isles but even as far as Iceland, kidnapping and enslaving White European Christians. The men were galley slaves, and the women were sex slaves.
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Damn, unable to get the whole, you reply with a piece. Did slavery only exist in one form? The US was practicing an unusual in civilized history form of society that was based on large scale race based generational slavery. Almost unheard of in history Very different from taking a few people captive.
 
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