517BlckBerry
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the feedback I truly appreciate it. I'm going to have 24 plants and they will have plenty of room so I have to try and measure and figure out how many lights I need to get a nice harvest...
Cree LED CXB3070 Powered Grow Light (9 COB)
- Thread starter 517BlckBerry
- Start date
2ANONYMOUS
Well-Known Member
Ok i mean Cob seem to be the go to light as in efficiency but not necessarily in yield i mean Rahz said it 230 watts @ 1.4 GPW only equates to 332 grams where people using 315 CMH are pulling some big numbers 1.5 and up meaning 315 CMH is comparing to almost 600 watt Hid or in the same ball park
I am not here to change your views but LED burple lighting haha and cobs are 2 different things shit i know growers pulling 2 pounds from 432 watts of T5 Ho's .. 6 plants
Not just the light that brings out quality its mostly strain depended light quality may bring out some terp profiles but in reality nothing beats the sun so searching for a full spectrum light source add on to any grow room is a must to up anyone's game
I am presonally up in the air with suplimental lighting and contemplating adding either CMH in a section and making a Diy Cob unit and seeing which will in fact be better ,
cobs will pay for it self after a couple runs but initial cost is expensive 550 bucks for 230 watts ??? to make 322 grams ??? in my books is not good gains off the bat
Where for 420 bucks i can make 2.5 pounds - 3 pounds With a DE nanolux and still have money in my pocket
so it all comes into what you are looking for
for me 43 bucks a month to run 1215 watt nano is nothing 140 bucks to make 3 pounds of weed of electrical having penetration power and heat in my books is same dam thing
so yeah study what best options you have i always wanted to run 432 watts of T5's with 1200 watt HID DE unit might just do that make a a diy 400 watt Cob and test T5 , Cob an CMH same strain same room environment
I am not here to change your views but LED burple lighting haha and cobs are 2 different things shit i know growers pulling 2 pounds from 432 watts of T5 Ho's .. 6 plants
Not just the light that brings out quality its mostly strain depended light quality may bring out some terp profiles but in reality nothing beats the sun so searching for a full spectrum light source add on to any grow room is a must to up anyone's game
I am presonally up in the air with suplimental lighting and contemplating adding either CMH in a section and making a Diy Cob unit and seeing which will in fact be better ,
cobs will pay for it self after a couple runs but initial cost is expensive 550 bucks for 230 watts ??? to make 322 grams ??? in my books is not good gains off the bat
Where for 420 bucks i can make 2.5 pounds - 3 pounds With a DE nanolux and still have money in my pocket
so it all comes into what you are looking for
for me 43 bucks a month to run 1215 watt nano is nothing 140 bucks to make 3 pounds of weed of electrical having penetration power and heat in my books is same dam thing
so yeah study what best options you have i always wanted to run 432 watts of T5's with 1200 watt HID DE unit might just do that make a a diy 400 watt Cob and test T5 , Cob an CMH same strain same room environment
517BlckBerry
Well-Known Member
that post just made me think... thanks my fellow anon.
I'm still getting some LED but mostly sticking with fullspec HID
Ill be trying the Tasty LEDs
I'm still getting some LED but mostly sticking with fullspec HID
Ill be trying the Tasty LEDs
2ANONYMOUS
Well-Known Member
I give Rahz respect least he is honest i mean its really hard to guage GPW unless its done a number of times with same strain and everything in check GPW is so miss leading , and yes even the big hid users are keeping a eye on the Cob movement but for many its still to soon to jump ship ,, I think there is going to be a major price adjustment in the new year,, when supplies get flooded like everything else supply n demand
Do you even need veg switches? Say if you DIY, most of the drivers have dimmers. I figure dimming the thing to about all the way down to 1/2 of amps should serve as a primitive veg switch? (I am assuming that dimming the MW drivers ALSO reduces power draw?)
Eg. that MW 1750ma driver, it dims from 850ma to 1750ma as far as I remember
Eg. that MW 1750ma driver, it dims from 850ma to 1750ma as far as I remember
2ANONYMOUS
Well-Known Member
Hey Rahz is your products UL, SA, ETL listed ???
517BlckBerry
Well-Known Member
thats what i was thinking. unless it changes the spectrum.
How many watts would you guys use for 24 plants to try and get at least 9 or 10 lbs? I'm curious.
Note that I am not exactly a professional...but..
I THINK (and was told) that 4x CXB3590 (approx 240W total), driving at 1400-1750mA are fine for my 120x60cm (4x3') area.
So if you have X plants, look at how big your grow area is...this could be a rough estimate to calculate how many lights you'd need.
captainmorgan
Well-Known Member
One of the biggest advantages of DIY is you can build it to fit your space and grow style which also means you can max the efficiency of your space if you choose. Some ballpark numbers would be 500 to 700 PPFD for a scrog,700 to 900 for medium size plants and 900 and up for taller plants. If you buy prebuilt COB light I would size it to your grow space and style. You can DIY with a dimmer or buy a prebuilt with a dimmer but using a dimmer lowers your drivers efficiency. So there are many decisions to make with COBs because they are so flexible. As far as GPW,it's not the best way to compare things but 2 GPW is fairly easy to hit with the right setup and that's with top shelf meds and not just some crappy high yielding strain.
Rahz
Well-Known Member
I think you're reading too much into my figures. I provide them as a reference point because they are the only real life figures I have personally but it's probably not a good metric because I don't consider myself a good grower.
Once the spectrum is in the ballpark is IS all about photons, so a much more accurate way of judging two lamps is by radiometric efficiency, or barring that, lumens from one white source to another. I've been looking around and can't find radiometric data on any 315w CMH bulbs, though I have seen lumen figures of 110 and 120 LPW. If someone can find higher numbers please correct me. Some radiometric data would be even better. Going by what I've discovered so far CXBs are much more efficient and therefore will produce more GPW than CMH, it's just a matter of having the same grower do a side by side.
CXB3590 3500K CD bin, 160 LPW at 2.1 amps, 170 LPW and 1.75 amps, 180 LPW at 1.4 amps.
2.1 amps for a CXB is slightly under-driven, but at 50% efficiency it's still a game winner. I've done the long term cost analysis in another thread between 600 watt DE and the Tasty equivalent, and the cost of ownership is cheaper with LED even at $5 per par watt. The 2.1 amp versions of my lamps are $4.60 per par watt. Even cheaper than that is DIY.
Once the spectrum is in the ballpark is IS all about photons, so a much more accurate way of judging two lamps is by radiometric efficiency, or barring that, lumens from one white source to another. I've been looking around and can't find radiometric data on any 315w CMH bulbs, though I have seen lumen figures of 110 and 120 LPW. If someone can find higher numbers please correct me. Some radiometric data would be even better. Going by what I've discovered so far CXBs are much more efficient and therefore will produce more GPW than CMH, it's just a matter of having the same grower do a side by side.
CXB3590 3500K CD bin, 160 LPW at 2.1 amps, 170 LPW and 1.75 amps, 180 LPW at 1.4 amps.
2.1 amps for a CXB is slightly under-driven, but at 50% efficiency it's still a game winner. I've done the long term cost analysis in another thread between 600 watt DE and the Tasty equivalent, and the cost of ownership is cheaper with LED even at $5 per par watt. The 2.1 amp versions of my lamps are $4.60 per par watt. Even cheaper than that is DIY.
Rahz
Well-Known Member
No they aren't. In time I hope to save enough to get UL approval. None of the profits for my company are claimed as income. Everything is put back into the business as warranty fund, to purchase more stock/equipment and eventually to save for big things like 3rd party enclosure manufacturing. At that point I will consider UL approval but it will be several years if all things go well.
517BlckBerry
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry for not being specific btw. I'm not used to telling people details about my grows at all. I want to have a veg room with mothers. Flower room with a section for scrog (small) then the rest I want to get pretty big. I'll be needing a lot of light, lets jut say that.
I am not looking for too many short plants with a canopy. I want big bushy outdoor looking plants. I am looking for the lights that can do that , I'll buy 6 of them if that's what it takes but the only time I feel confident is when people have actually grown with them- or everyone vouches for some incredible specs.... I appreciate all the knowledge being dropped here too guys...
I am not looking for too many short plants with a canopy. I want big bushy outdoor looking plants. I am looking for the lights that can do that , I'll buy 6 of them if that's what it takes but the only time I feel confident is when people have actually grown with them- or everyone vouches for some incredible specs.... I appreciate all the knowledge being dropped here too guys...
dandyrandy
Well-Known Member
I run 6 5 gal buckets in an area ~ approx. 11 sq ft. I run 9 Verro 29 LEDs. I harvest 800 to 1000 grams of bud every cycle. 600w works well. I do crank it at the last to finish bottom popcorn. I really don't do anything special. Soil grow reg nutrients. I grow sativa dominate as you can see from the avatar. Also plants seem to finish we quicker.
littlejacob
Well-Known Member
Bonjour
When I said 1.5gpw...I was talking about cxb 3590 3500ºk 36V CD @1400mA 56% efficient...yours are 38% so with the same setup you just change your lights for those and you will pull 30/40% more weight!
So you have 2 1000hps DE !
What kind of reflector do you use?
What kind of nutes...grow style...how many day did you vegg...medium...because not a lot of growers pull gpw from hps in soil with tap water and organic amendments...
If you want to know the max a good growers with good numbers using hps could pull...try it lol!...you pull 1.1gpw with 38% efficient light...imagine with 18% more...4% is 10/15% more weight...with the good strain and nutes in hydro you could pull 1.7/1.8gpw...@700mA...2gpw...more if you put a cob over each sq/ft
CU
littlejacob
Well-Known Member
Bonjour
You should aim for 5000ºk for vegg (15/20w sq/ft)and 3000k or 3500k for bloom(30/35w sq/ft)!
Don't take the 2100mA for the scrog...it would be perfect for big plants not for scrog...use the 1750mA or better if he have 1400mA one took those you will be happy (even better without lens for scrog but useful for tall plants)
CU
You should aim for 5000ºk for vegg (15/20w sq/ft)and 3000k or 3500k for bloom(30/35w sq/ft)!
Don't take the 2100mA for the scrog...it would be perfect for big plants not for scrog...use the 1750mA or better if he have 1400mA one took those you will be happy (even better without lens for scrog but useful for tall plants)
CU
517BlckBerry
Well-Known Member
I really appreciate all the info guys. Like I said I'm new to the LED stuff. Been using MH/HPS with great results but I want to have cheaper light bills less replacements and hopefully better bud...Rahz I'm still looking around but will a T4 1750 be the best choice out of all your lights? I'm growing my plants pretty big, probably 6feet tall or more all said n done... so I need your most powerful light.
BigZcolorado
Well-Known Member
I got a better deal when I ordered the 9 cob 3070 from johnsongrowlights.com If you contact them directly you can get a better deal than the prices ive seen online! If it was me, I'd try to avoid paying the retail prices. I sell software on amazon for example if I sell 4 units its a total of $999.96 all I get from that is $818 and I pay to ship. I don't see any need in shoving money in amazons or another retailers pocket if it can be avoided. Id contact all the sellers directly and see who offered me the best deal or if I could even get a hold of them at all. Best of luck to ya!
here is the post with my light https://www.rollitup.org/t/johnsongrowlights-com-cx-9-grow.894034/
here is the post with my light https://www.rollitup.org/t/johnsongrowlights-com-cx-9-grow.894034/
tripleD
Well-Known Member
Rahz
Well-Known Member
Since phototropic intensity drops as light intensity increases a higher percentage of light is filtering through the canopy with higher light levels. The penetration should be non-linear. There is 1 graph and 1 chart on my website and they are there precisely for the reason we're having this conversation. In the graph you can see the phototropic efficiency starting to drop off faster after 6-700 PPFD. The further past that point you go the more penetration there will be. There's no magical point that is best. The chart provides PPFD values for all the lamps in a variety of spaces they work in. I think good veg values are 300 on the low end to 650 on the high end. For short plants between 500 and 900 in flower and 750-1200+ for taller plants, though in saying that it should be mentioned that phototropic efficiency does fall off faster at higher PPFD values so there's a balance between GPW and g/ft that must be considered.
Trying to push PPFD values towards 1000 in large spaces can get expensive. For some perspective a Gavita 1000w will provide about 750 PPFD in a 5x5. Also, the drivers I use typically put out a bit more current than they are rated for and PPFD values in the chart are adjusted for lens loss so if anything they're going to be a bit low.
Trying to push PPFD values towards 1000 in large spaces can get expensive. For some perspective a Gavita 1000w will provide about 750 PPFD in a 5x5. Also, the drivers I use typically put out a bit more current than they are rated for and PPFD values in the chart are adjusted for lens loss so if anything they're going to be a bit low.
517BlckBerry
Well-Known Member
I gota be honest here, some of that is going over my head as I'm very new to anything led. I'm even new to calculations in general. I've always just popped lights in that I thought were good n got a nice harvest. This is all new to me, but I really appreciate all the feedback because it helps me grow, no pun intended lol. Time to investigate some more figures.
517BlckBerry
Well-Known Member
I looked at the bml lights also.. But they aren't running these new Cree or cob stuff are they?
517BlckBerry
Well-Known Member
I have about 200 sq ft to play with. Measuring in a couple days. Going to run my usual 7 gal buckets and 1000w dual arc bulbs with apollo ballasts. The LEDs is still a question but I narrowed it down to 2 companies. JohnsonLED and Rhaz's Tasty LED line. Hell I might get 2 of each and do a side by side comparison.
The Veros I looked up, so those are basically lights without drivers and boards/fans etc right? You put them together yourself? I might get into that but not right off rip....
The Veros I looked up, so those are basically lights without drivers and boards/fans etc right? You put them together yourself? I might get into that but not right off rip....
bassman999
Well-Known Member
Vero is a cob light engine made by Bridgelux.
The Cree cobs seem to have proven to be more efficient
Cree makes cobs in the CXA and cxb lines.
The common Cree cobs are the CXB3070 and CXB33590.
These are raw cobs or light engines.
They need to be mounted to heatsink(s) and be powered by driver(s)
Depending on power draw fans may or may not be needed to keep the cobs cool.
Thus can be built by yourself as a DIY or bought From someone like Rahz of Tasty who did all the asembly for you with proven comonents
The Cree cobs seem to have proven to be more efficient
Cree makes cobs in the CXA and cxb lines.
The common Cree cobs are the CXB3070 and CXB33590.
These are raw cobs or light engines.
They need to be mounted to heatsink(s) and be powered by driver(s)
Depending on power draw fans may or may not be needed to keep the cobs cool.
Thus can be built by yourself as a DIY or bought From someone like Rahz of Tasty who did all the asembly for you with proven comonents
Nice lights Rahz. First time I looked at yours (didnt even know Tasty was your lighting). Glad to see a company putting full specs out on it instead of hiding some (type of lighting/drivers, efficiency, wattage, PPFD, ect). Price, well you know where I stand with that
But at least you put more of an effort to show what is in them and not try and hide information (like what outdated COBS are being used).
517BlckBerry
Well-Known Member
Question/
Why some lights I see "full spec" like this one http://www.amazon.com/Roleadro-Grow-Light-Spectrum-Flowering/dp/B013QLEYTW/ref=pd_sim_sbs_79_6?ie=UTF8&dpID=41XRYgoutSL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=0K9K8YZQYP48RNAC5Q9Y showing purple colors and whatnot. Then other ones do not. Like Tasty for instance...Does that just mean they're adjustable to any spectrum? Or the spectrum one has is better than the other? Green horn questions I know, I know...
Why some lights I see "full spec" like this one http://www.amazon.com/Roleadro-Grow-Light-Spectrum-Flowering/dp/B013QLEYTW/ref=pd_sim_sbs_79_6?ie=UTF8&dpID=41XRYgoutSL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=0K9K8YZQYP48RNAC5Q9Y showing purple colors and whatnot. Then other ones do not. Like Tasty for instance...Does that just mean they're adjustable to any spectrum? Or the spectrum one has is better than the other? Green horn questions I know, I know...
517BlckBerry
Well-Known Member
http://www.amazon.com/Optic-Vero-Grow-Light-Watt/dp/B00NTAAM1U/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1451354721&sr=1-1&keywords=Vero+LED Checking out the Veros. Looks good. I think I'd need about 3 of these to go with my 3000watts of HPS.
Rahz
Well-Known Member
Those Chinese lights used to be (some still are) red/blue or blurple as we call it. Then they started adding some white emitters, or a bunch of different colors and started calling them full spectrum. Cobs are white light (full spectrum) with peaks in the blue and red regions.
517BlckBerry
Well-Known Member
You know this is kinda what I was thinking after my research but thanks for the clear answer friend.
I'm going with the Tasty lights. I'll start the journal in Feb and do comparisons for people to check out. I got a feeling it will be a cool one because it's the best room I've ever designed
excited. Thanks to everyone who helped me with this topic!
littlejacob
Well-Known Member
Bonjour
You should name one of your light: "the blackbird"...another one: "Darkstar" or "cxb Black series" will it sound too chinese crap?!?!
CU
You should name one of your light: "the blackbird"...another one: "Darkstar" or "cxb Black series" will it sound too chinese crap?!?!
CU
bassman999
Well-Known Member
littlejacob
Well-Known Member
Bonjour
I will buy some critical x bigbud...C x B...lol!
CxU
I will buy some critical x bigbud...C x B...lol!
CxU
bassman999
Well-Known Member
Arent they basically the same strain?
littlejacob
Well-Known Member
Bonjour
I think Critical is a Spanish pheno of bigbud x skunk!
So yes basically the same...it was just a french trying to make a joke in English...sorry!
CU
I think Critical is a Spanish pheno of bigbud x skunk!
So yes basically the same...it was just a french trying to make a joke in English...sorry!
CU