Another mass shooting by a muslim, walmart in texas.

Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
ThickStemz said:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2005/10/why_ask_why.html

@Padawanbater2

This is one of numerous Hitchens articles that thoroughly eviscerates your claim that the West causes the terrorism against it.
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"While seeking Allah's help, we form our reply based on two questions directed at the Americans:

(Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?

Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us."

"(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam."

"(2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you."

"(3) What we call you to thirdly is to take an honest stance with yourselves - and I doubt you will do so - to discover that you are a nation without principles or manners, and that the values and principles to you are something which you merely demand from others, not that which you yourself must adhere to.

(4) We also advise you to stop supporting Israel, and to end your support of the Indians in Kashmir, the Russians against the Chechens and to also cease supporting the Manila Government against the Muslims in Southern Philippines.

(5) We also advise you to pack your luggage and get out of our lands. We desire for your goodness, guidance, and righteousness, so do not force us to send you back as cargo in coffins.

(6) Sixthly, we call upon you to end your support of the corrupt leaders in our countries. Do not interfere in our politics and method of education. Leave us alone, or else expect us in New York and Washington.

(7) We also call you to deal with us and interact with us on the basis of mutual interests and benefits, rather than the policies of sub dual, theft and occupation, and not to continue your policy of supporting the Jews because this will result in more disasters for you."

From the horse's mouth himself


If you're going to blame Islam for this, you have to blame Christianity for things like the Planned Parenthood shooting that killed 3 people, murders of doctors who perform abortions, LGBT discrimination, etc. You seem to only want to blame the brown people and what they believe in, but anytime a white guy does the exact same thing because he thinks his religion tells him to, he's just a lone gunman who's crazy. The inconsistency is what defeats your argument. If it were up to me, we'd be having serious talks about the dangers of organized religion as a whole. Holding an unfalsifiable belief in a dogma that gives its believers moral authority over everyone else is dangerous, doesn't matter if you call your god 'Jesus' or 'Allah'.
 
T

ThickStemz

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
"While seeking Allah's help, we form our reply based on two questions directed at the Americans:

(Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?

Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us."

"(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam."

"(2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you."

"(3) What we call you to thirdly is to take an honest stance with yourselves - and I doubt you will do so - to discover that you are a nation without principles or manners, and that the values and principles to you are something which you merely demand from others, not that which you yourself must adhere to.

(4) We also advise you to stop supporting Israel, and to end your support of the Indians in Kashmir, the Russians against the Chechens and to also cease supporting the Manila Government against the Muslims in Southern Philippines.

(5) We also advise you to pack your luggage and get out of our lands. We desire for your goodness, guidance, and righteousness, so do not force us to send you back as cargo in coffins.

(6) Sixthly, we call upon you to end your support of the corrupt leaders in our countries. Do not interfere in our politics and method of education. Leave us alone, or else expect us in New York and Washington.

(7) We also call you to deal with us and interact with us on the basis of mutual interests and benefits, rather than the policies of sub dual, theft and occupation, and not to continue your policy of supporting the Jews because this will result in more disasters for you."

From the horse's mouth himself


If you're going to blame Islam for this, you have to blame Christianity for things like the Planned Parenthood shooting that killed 3 people, murders of doctors who perform abortions, LGBT discrimination, etc. You seem to only want to blame the brown people and what they believe in, but anytime a white guy does the exact same thing because he thinks his religion tells him to, he's just a lone gunman who's crazy. The inconsistency is what defeats your argument. If it were up to me, we'd be having serious talks about the dangers of organized religion as a whole. Holding an unfalsifiable belief in a dogma that gives its believers moral authority over everyone else is dangerous, doesn't matter if you call your god 'Jesus' or 'Allah'.
Click to expand...
One... That's a false equivalency. Your biggest Christian atrocity you can bring to mind is a shooting that killed 3 people and the occasional killing of an abortion doctor. While I attribute them to the exact same cause as you, their religious fundamentalism, I make a major distinction in scale. In a country of 350 million people, where about half claim to expect Jesus to return in their life time, if Christianity had anywhere near the tendency for barbarism that Islam does we would be living in a country much like Syria is today. Per capita the violance attributale to Christian fundies is negligible compared to islam.

Second, how many times have you heard me espousing Christian beliefs?

I am an athiest, same as you from what I can tell. Yes, Christians want to teach crazy shit in science class, they want to impose their beliefs on society by limiting the rights of others, and I am on your side opposing that.

But that is a completely different thing. Generally you and I could walk into any gatheing of Christians around the planet and expect to be able to walk out, even if we went in and said we thought their God was Bullshit. Can you honestly say the same about all mosques, across the world, or hell even across the western world? I don't think you can.
 
OddBall1st

OddBall1st

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
"While seeking Allah's help, we form our reply based on two questions directed at the Americans:

(Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?

Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us."

"(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam."

"(2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you."

"(3) What we call you to thirdly is to take an honest stance with yourselves - and I doubt you will do so - to discover that you are a nation without principles or manners, and that the values and principles to you are something which you merely demand from others, not that which you yourself must adhere to.

(4) We also advise you to stop supporting Israel, and to end your support of the Indians in Kashmir, the Russians against the Chechens and to also cease supporting the Manila Government against the Muslims in Southern Philippines.

(5) We also advise you to pack your luggage and get out of our lands. We desire for your goodness, guidance, and righteousness, so do not force us to send you back as cargo in coffins.

(6) Sixthly, we call upon you to end your support of the corrupt leaders in our countries. Do not interfere in our politics and method of education. Leave us alone, or else expect us in New York and Washington.

(7) We also call you to deal with us and interact with us on the basis of mutual interests and benefits, rather than the policies of sub dual, theft and occupation, and not to continue your policy of supporting the Jews because this will result in more disasters for you."

From the horse's mouth himself


If you're going to blame Islam for this, you have to blame Christianity for things like the Planned Parenthood shooting that killed 3 people, murders of doctors who perform abortions, LGBT discrimination, etc. You seem to only want to blame the brown people and what they believe in, but anytime a white guy does the exact same thing because he thinks his religion tells him to, he's just a lone gunman who's crazy. The inconsistency is what defeats your argument. If it were up to me, we'd be having serious talks about the dangers of organized religion as a whole. Holding an unfalsifiable belief in a dogma that gives its believers moral authority over everyone else is dangerous, doesn't matter if you call your god 'Jesus' or 'Allah'.
Click to expand...
Number 1 and 4 makes them everyone else`s enemy. Because of number 1, number 4 exists.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
ThickStemz said:
if Christianity had anywhere near the tendency for barbarism that Islam does
Click to expand...
if islam had anywhere near the barbarism that christianity does, there would be half a million dead civilian americans, instead of half a million dead civilian iraqis.
 
T

ThickStemz

Well-Known Member
Pada,

Think of the Schoville scale for hot peppers.

You're basically saying, it's nonsense to talk about how hot those ghost chiles are, there is capsaicin in all hot peppers.

While that is true, youre essentially telling me that we need to treat a habinero and a jalapeno the same, because they're both objectively spicy. As if that makes them even.

While there are some religions out there that contain zero capsaicin, human passions are enough to drive any ideology dominated person to passion and violence.

Even the Christians you mentioned only targeted the sin. I don't agree or condone it in any way, but under the appropriate assumptions (which their assumptions are not appropriate) killing an abortion doctor is akin to saving lives. I can both abhor the act and see the logic in it. At least it has a reason.

This violence perpetrated by the followers of Islam is much more random and serves no purpose aside from kill the infidile.

The two are not as close as you would allude.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
ThickStemz said:
One... That's a false equivalency. Your biggest Christian atrocity you can bring to mind is a shooting that killed 3 people and the occasional killing of an abortion doctor. While I attribute them to the exact same cause as you, their religious fundamentalism, I make a major distinction in scale. In a country of 350 million people, where about half claim to expect Jesus to return in their life time, if Christianity had anywhere near the tendency for barbarism that Islam does we would be living in a country much like Syria is today. Per capita the violance attributale to Christian fundies is negligible compared to islam.
Click to expand...
What did the western world look like in 1400AD? Islam is 600 years older than Christianity and the west underwent the renaissance and the enlightenment centuries after Christianity had been widely adopted, so there was a good 15 centuries of nothing but violence.

If it's a false equivalency to compare Islam with Christianity, then why are you comparing Islam with Christianity? What don't you get about the fact that it's not the flavor of bullshit you're drinking, it's the drink itself that's the problem, and until people stop drinking it in every flavor, shit like this will continue to happen.
ThickStemz said:
Even the Christians you mentioned only targeted the sin. I don't agree or condone it in any way, but under the appropriate assumptions (which their assumptions are not appropriate) killing an abortion doctor is akin to saving lives. I can both abhor the act and see the logic in it. At least it has a reason.

This violence perpetrated by the followers of Islam is much more random and serves no purpose aside from kill the infidile.
Click to expand...
 
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