Bernie Sanders 2020

Unclebaldrick

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
blu3bird said:
Medicare should be for people who want it or need it. I would much rather stay with and pay for my own health insurance

I can control my own life, I really don't want or need the government to make anymore decisions for me than they already do

Whatever happened to people wanting to be independent and not look for the government to control every facet of their life?
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Maybe it is time to realize that the decisions that individuals make aren't working really well in the long run and broaden your mind a little bit.

For example... the widespread use of plastic in everything we do has a hidden cost that is just now becoming evident in the way it pollutes our environment and fucks with the health of the food chain worldwide. But do you really expect this problem to get solved without government's involvement?

The rugged John Wayne-type individuality worked a whole lot better when there were a fraction of the number of people we have today and the Earth's environment had not been rapaciously exploited to the point where the viability life was being threatened.

We have a healthcare system that spends more per capita than any other in the world the result of which is that many, many people are going without it or delaying it until the cost of treatment is many times more than it should be.

We are the government and it is high time we act together to do something about it. The rest of the developed world has and they have gotten good results.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
LOL, as I said, "You keep trying to talk or lie your way around that question".

It's a lie that Obamacare made people give up plans they liked. Everybody's coverage remained the same if that's what they wanted.

I asked you a question. You responded with questions. Answer my question directly as I have done to yours.

If the Medicare plan that Bernie proposes is a good one, why not make it voluntary? Answer that.

Why does Bernie MAKE people give up the plans they like? Answer that.
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People don't like their plans, they like their doctor. 90% of doctors currently accept medicare. Under a single payer system, 100% of doctors would accept medicare. What makes you think anyone would have to change their doctor if every doctor would accept their healthcare plan?

M4A ensures the 30 million Americans left behind by the Affordable Care Act can have access to healthcare and eliminates the 45K/year number of people who die because they don't have access to adequate healthcare
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
People don't like their plans, they like their doctor. 90% of doctors currently accept medicare. Under a single payer system, 100% of doctors would accept medicare. What makes you think anyone would have to change their doctor if every doctor would accept their healthcare plan?

M4A ensures the 30 million Americans left behind by the Affordable Care Act can have access to healthcare and eliminates the 45K/year number of people who die because they don't have access to adequate healthcare
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Gallup's polling says at least 70% of people like their plans.
Most Americans Still Rate Their Healthcare Quite Positively
https://news.gallup.com/poll/245195/americans-rate-healthcare-quite-positively.aspx

Note that the report specifically says "heathcare", not "doctors but hate their healthcare. For example:

As the incoming Congress prepares to debate further changes to the U.S. healthcare system, solid majorities of Americans rate the coverage (69%) and quality (80%) of the healthcare they personally receive as "excellent" or "good."

Bottom Line
Americans are generally satisfied with their own healthcare but see the cost, coverage and quality of U.S. healthcare more generally as a problem for others.

No mention of your word salad about doctors etc. Yes, Republicans have screwed up the ACA. This is why access to healthcare coverage is a big issue for the upcoming election.

What source you are quoting that says people don't like their plans? Name your source.

I asked you a question. You responded with questions. Answer my question directly as I have done to yours.

If the Medicare plan that Bernie proposes is a good one, why not make it voluntary? Answer that.

Why does Bernie MAKE people give up the plans they like? Answer that.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Why not make the ACA voluntary?

Answer that and you'll answer your own dumb question
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The ACA is not an insurance provider. There are plenty of different providers and options for people to choose. Before Trump changed the policy, everybody had to have insurance that met a certain standard and could choose among plans that exceeded or just barely met the standard. In most districts there were plenty of choices. Under Bernie's plan there is no choice. Everybody is covered under one plan. People don't like that.

OK, now answer my dumb question. If Medicare is so great, why not let people choose to sign up to have Medicare or allow them to choose some other provider with similar coverage?
 
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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
People are pretty happy with with universal healthcare in Canada and other developed countries. They spend less -- a lot less -- than we do and for the most part, people do better in their system than ours.

Put it another way. Other countries think our system is a joke.
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So why are you defending it?
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
The ACA is not an insurance provider. There are plenty of different providers and options for people to choose. Before Trump changed the policy, everybody had to have insurance that met a certain standard and could choose among plans that exceeded or just barely met the standard. In most districts there were plenty of choices. Under Bernie's plan there is no choice. Everybody is covered under one plan. People don't like that.

OK, now answer my dumb question. If Medicare is so great, why not let people choose to sign up to have Medicare or allow them to choose some other provider with similar coverage?
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Everyone had to buy into the ACA by threat of penalty if they didn't

If people "don't like that", why does medicare remain one of the most successful programs our government provides? Everyone who utilizes it loves it according to the polls. People have the choice to receive elective procedures if they choose to pay for it out of pocket. What Sanders plan does is eliminate the middleman, the for profit insurance companies who increase costs by 22%. If you want to get a nose job or liposuction, that's fine. All Sanders is saying is that the guy who needs the liver transplant should take priority. If you don't want to wait, that's fine, too. You'll just have to pay a little bit extra.

That is how medical institutions should work.

Wealthy individuals would not choose to sign up for M4A because they can afford private healthcare, that's why it's required. Just like the ACA.

This does not eliminate choice
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
It's not as if I made it hard to count them.

LOL
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Pink even! He’s not very good at comprehension I’ve noticed lol. I get the discontent with giving up what people already are happy with and I would be very apprehensive in doing that. I also get the everyone must sign on thing, as not to create a two tiered system. We are constantly debating and rejecting that here. We also have known nothing but the everyone has to participate, pretty tough sell if we had options all along.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Gallup's polling says at least 70% of people like their plans.
Most Americans Still Rate Their Healthcare Quite Positively
https://news.gallup.com/poll/245195/americans-rate-healthcare-quite-positively.aspx

Note that the report specifically says "heathcare", not "doctors but hate their healthcare. For example:

As the incoming Congress prepares to debate further changes to the U.S. healthcare system, solid majorities of Americans rate the coverage (69%) and quality (80%) of the healthcare they personally receive as "excellent" or "good."

Bottom Line
Americans are generally satisfied with their own healthcare but see the cost, coverage and quality of U.S. healthcare more generally as a problem for others.

No mention of your word salad about doctors etc. Yes, Republicans have screwed up the ACA. This is why access to healthcare coverage is a big issue for the upcoming election.

What source you are quoting that says people don't like their plans? Name your source.

I asked you a question. You responded with questions. Answer my question directly as I have done to yours.

If the Medicare plan that Bernie proposes is a good one, why not make it voluntary? Answer that.

Why does Bernie MAKE people give up the plans they like? Answer that.
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Are you aware how hard it was to get Social Security?..fought tooth and nail with Arizona being the last..now you can't pry it out of a cold dead fist.

Fact.

There's a really good old school book called 'Who Moved My Cheese' to help folks like you who can't understand that change is inevitable.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Everyone had to buy into the ACA by threat of penalty if they didn't
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That is true. Now imagine the size and scope of the outrage when people are forced from plans they don't like AND are through increased taxes pay for a radical expansion in Medicare. The next shoe to drop is that Bernie's plan is unfinished and unready for implementation. Republicans will do all they can to sabotage it too. Delays in service, mistakes are all going to create a backlash just like what happened with Obamacare during its roll-out except on a larger and more meaningful scale.

Padawanbater2 said:
Everyone had to buy into the ACA by threat of penalty if they didn't

If people "don't like that", why does medicare remain one of the most successful programs our government provides? Everyone who utilizes it loves it according to the polls. People have the choice to receive elective procedures if they choose to pay for it out of pocket. What Sanders plan does is eliminate the middleman, the for profit insurance companies who increase costs by 22%. If you want to get a nose job or liposuction, that's fine. All Sanders is saying is that the guy who needs the liver transplant should take priority. If you don't want to wait, that's fine, too. You'll just have to pay a little bit extra.

That is how medical institutions should work.

Wealthy individuals would not choose to sign up for M4A because they can afford private healthcare, that's why it's required. Just like the ACA.

This does not eliminate choice
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Forcing people from plans they don't like is a stupid idea. Then too, Bernie's half-baked plan is amateurish and an embarrassment to anybody who supports universal healthcare. Also, Bernie has no experience in getting things done. His plans are a disaster on paper, much less if ever implemented.

I support shifting the healthcare system to Medicare but not in the way that Bernie most ridiculously proposes. Elizabeth Warren and others propose giving people the choice of buying in to Medicare or not. This is a much more rational and politically savvy proposal.. Somebody with experience and leadership ability should oversee the shift to universal access to healthcare. This means somebody other than Bernie.
 
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Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
Are you aware how hard it was to get Social Security?..fought tooth and nail with Arizona being the last..now you can't pry it out of a cold dead fist.

Fact.

There's a really good old school book called 'Who Moved My Cheese' to help folks like you who can't understand that change is inevitable.
Click to expand...
"Who moved the cheese" is for morons.

I support moving the healthcare system away from the current system and to Medicare or something better. I just don't support Bernie's stupid, half baked and politically obtuse plan.

He hasn't even said how it will be paid for and there has been no real effort at assigning how much it will cost.

"Who moved the cheese"

LOL
 
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