Lockdowns don't work.

[zeddd]

There is no data worth a shit at this point other than counting the dead. Analysing deeply incomplete and deeply flawed data is a waste of time for amateurs, much less professionals. At least I have the good grace to call what I do when playing prophet, speculation and not fact. The data is shit and you can try and mold it into something meaningful, but the substance remains shit, not fact.

Time will tell us the answers, but after a lot of people will have died, the purpose of this discussion, I hope, is to keep that number to a minimum, either through primary or secondary causes, like hunger and deprivation.

You say “shit” a lot, it suits you.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

It means the debate gets diluted and germane posts get buried

Create a new thread and repost the salient information at the top of the thread, give it a decent title too. If its that important, then it's worth your time. It will give you a chance to also to marshal your arguments and organise your thoughts, not to mention bury your errors. This approach has several advantages.

 

[zeddd]

Create a new thread and repost the salient information at the top of the thread, give it a decent title too. If its that important, then it's worth your time. It will give you a chance to also to marshal your arguments and organise your thoughts, not to mention bury your errors. This approach has several advantages.

You like telling others what to do. Why is that?

 

[rkymtnman]

I think your claim to fame is the high distinction of which countries are Nordic vs Scandinavian

and you set the bar really high too. lol. color me not impressed.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

You say “shit” a lot, it suits you.

You are speaking of overturning an entire branch of science on a fucking pot forum, shit is an appropriate word for the data we are working with. It's not an ad hominem attack, it's a descriptive of the quality of the information that the analysis depends upon.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

You like telling others what to do. Why is that?

It's called a suggestion for action instead of whining about the nature of the forum and medium. If you have a point then create a thread for it based on the experience gained here. Not much point though, because this is about as meaningful as a discussion on theology. Science works with quantifiable and qualifiable data, no data no science and no meaningful maths.

 

[zeddd]

You are speaking of overturning an entire branch of science on a fucking pot forum, shit is an appropriate word for the data we are working with. It's not an ad hominem attack, it's a descriptive of the quality of the information that the analysis depends upon.

Interesting that you disparage the pot forum you spend your life on. Which branch of science am I trying to “overturning” by agreeing with AC?

 

[zeddd]

It's called a suggestion for action instead of whining about the nature of the forum and medium. If you have a point then create a thread for it based on the experience gained here. Not much point though, because this is about as meaningful as a discussion on theology. Science works with quantifiable and qualifiable data, no data no science and no meaningful maths.

Were you a professional scientist when you worked all those years ago?

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Were you a professional scientist when you worked all those years ago?

I'm an ameteur, a comsumer of science if you will and the kind of person that scientists depend on for public funding, I think science is important. It's not that amateurs don't make meaningful contributions in science, I'm a stargazer, but I wouldn't call myself an ameuter astronomer because many are operating on a professional level, the internet is a great equalizer in astronomy. I'm a dilatant stargazer too, many amateur astronomers are respected in the astronomy community, almost all professionals were amateurs at one time.

I worked as a tradesman and abandon worked in a dive shop, nobody here has worked as a professional scientist to the best of my knowledge.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Interesting that you disparage the pot forum you spend your life on. Which branch of science am I trying to “overturning” by agreeing with AC?

epidemiology

 

[Dr.Amber Trichome]

When they have shitty thread titles that support a false and dangerous narrative I do. When you grossly overgeneralize I do too. You are more concerned with winning arguments than in seeking the truth. Your emotions have everything to do with this, everything else has been rationalizations that you trying to peddle as scientific fact. You have nowhere near the rigor or data required to make declarative statements of scientific fact. Post your conclusions in a scientific forum and not a pot forum, you'll get your head handed to you real quick and have had it offered to you several times here.

I like the thread title, it doesn’t bother me at all. In fact I find it thought provoking. You seem to be jumping to a lot of conclusions about how the thread title is received by others. Your ego is getting in the way.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I like the thread title, it doesn’t bother me at all. In fact I find it thought provoking. You seem to be jumping to a lot of conclusions about how the thread title is received by others. Your ego is getting in the way.

Nope, my common sense, there are people who are using it to support dangerous political and social action in America, it is unproven speculation presented as scientific fact. I don't do much ad hominem attacks, unless for political purposes, that's not the case here, I don't attack good people who I disagree with. I might ask them to question their motives and see if stress is influencing their thinking, but I try to be compassionate. Many people here cannot separate ad hominem attacks for the discussion of ideas and facts, they lack the emotional awareness and subsequent control. Most discussions are about winning arguments and not seeking the truth and the truth is we don't know at this point because the data is all over the place as is the discussion of it. One thing is for sure though, the truth will set you free.

This might as well be a theology thread, not an insult a fact of life.

 

[doublejj]

#FloridaMorons trends after people flock to reopened Florida beaches
On the same day that Florida reported 58 deaths from the coronavirus - its highest daily toll since the pandemic began - DeSantis told reporters that it's essential that Floridians get exercise outdoors. ...........Morons

#FloridaMorons trends after people flock to reopened beaches

Aerial snapshots of people flocking to a reopened beach in Jacksonville, Florida, made...

www.sfgate.com

 

[doublejj]

Sheltering in place had one positive $1 billion side-effect for California

The statewide order to shelter in place that went into effect on March 20 had a beneficial side-effect: Accidents, injuries and fatalities on California roadways were cut in half, saving the state and residents of California $1 billion, according to a UC Davis study.

Sheltering in place had one positive $1B side-effect for Calif.

The statewide order to shelter in place that went into effect on March 20 had a...

www.sfgate.com

 

[zeddd]

I'm an ameteur, a comsumer of science if you will and the kind of person that scientists depend on for public funding, I think science is important. It's not that amateurs don't make meaningful contributions in science, I'm a stargazer, but I wouldn't call myself an ameuter astronomer because many are operating on a professional level, the internet is a great equalizer in astronomy. I'm a dilatant stargazer too, many amateur astronomers are respected in the astronomy community, almost all professionals were amateurs at one time.

I worked as a tradesman and abandon worked in a dive shop, nobody here has worked as a professional scientist to the best of my knowledge.

Wrong

 

[doublejj]

Coronavirus updates: Newsom says curve has flattened, waiting for numbers to come down

"We've certainly flattened the curve," he said. "Now the question is when we will see the numbers decline on a consistent basis, instead of an episodic basis over the last week."

Coronavirus updates: Newsom says curve has flattened, waiting for numbers to come down

San Francisco reported 20 more coronavirus cases Sunday morning, bringing its total tally...

www.sfgate.com

 

[Fogdog]

Yep, PCR and serological tests, I do believe though that treatments will mitigate this disaster and change the dynamic. We will know more within a week about two approaches, a very promising drug and convalescent plasma transfusions, all of these NPI discussions are not taking the dynamic nature of the problem into account. After next week I expect the nature of the conversation will change, depending of the results of a drug trial that will be released soon. I'm locked down anyway, so what's another week while waiting for hope. Remove the terror with effective treatments to lower the mortality rate and dramatically reduce hospital resource requirements, then the rules can change, more so with proper testing.

I'm a realist, but I have good cause for optimism, even dumb Donald will be all over a treatment that actually works and will drive it forward ASAP.

DIY, you don't know anything on this subject and your beliefs are not worth mentioning, much less those dumb ass videos you pepper this forum with. This all adds up to you being an uninteresting windbag when you talk about treatments and how they are a path forward. There are no treatments that have shown to be effective. Hope is a placebo and not a reliable cure. The only answer we have at this time is widespread testing followed up by contact tracing and isolating people who are infected. Before those measures can be taken, we need to drive down the number of daily new active cases to a level where it is possible to follow up on each and every one.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Wrong

Are you working as a professional scientist? Know anybody here who is?
I don't mind a discussion of a speculative nature, that's also part of science, the part that happens over a few beers in private or even on scientific forums, but it is labeled as speculation and conjecture. Often it leads to good research and great ideas, nobody enforces orthodoxy on conjecture and speculation though ya gotta stand by your arguments. Nobody makes declaratives or speaks in absolute terms even when standing on solid scientific ground. LOCK DOWNS DON'T WORK is a conclusion unsupported by the evidence, DO LOCK DOWNS WORK?, seeks the truth by asking a simple direct question. You don't start with a conclusion that you seek to rationalise, you start with a question based on anomalies in the data?

I never started a thread that said SAUNAS WORK TO PREVENT COVID-19 DEATHS, even though it is supported by an evidence base, proper studies are being done on it now though, and those studies are based on anomalies in data from several sources. I might even personally believe there are health benefits to this activity, but I'm certainly not going to say it's a proven fact. The information is good enough for my own consumption and the risks are low, the internet is full of information on it, some good, much bad.

 

[zeddd]

Are you working as a professional scientist? Know anybody here who is?
I don't mind a discussion of a speculative nature, that's also part of science, the part that happens over a few beers in private or even on scientific forums, but it is labeled as speculation and conjecture. Often it leads to good research and great ideas, nobody enforces orthodoxy on conjecture and speculation though ya gotta stand by your arguments. Nobody makes declaratives or speaks in absolute terms even when standing on solid scientific ground. LOCK DOWNS DON'T WORK is a conclusion unsupported by the evidence, DO LOCK DOWNS WORK?, seeks the truth by asking a simple direct question. You don't start with a conclusion that you seek to rationalise, you start with a question based on anomalies in the data?

I never started a thread that said SAUNAS WORK TO PREVENT COVID-19 DEATHS, even though it is supported by an evidence base, proper studies are being done on it now though, and those studies are based on anomalies in data from several sources. I might even personally believe there are health benefits to this activity, but I'm certainly not going to say it's a proven fact. The information is good enough for my own consumption and the risks are low, the internet is full of information on it, some good, much bad.

Yes and yes

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

DIY, you don't know anything on this subject and your beliefs are not worth mentioning, much less those dumb ass videos you pepper this forum with. This all adds up to you being an uninteresting windbag when you talk about treatments and how they are a path forward. There are no treatments that have shown to be effective. Hope is a placebo and not a reliable cure. The only answer we have at this time is widespread testing followed up by contact tracing and isolating people who are infected. Before those measures can be taken, we need to drive down the number of daily new active cases to a level where it is possible to follow up on each and every one.

I said to wait a week and see what the studies say and was just covering the news. There are two possible treatments that can change the conversation about NPIs in my country at least, it looks like it might be too late to have much of an effect on yours. We are gonna see if AC is correct in the coming weeks in America at least, and probably in a lot of other third world countries, I figure it's gonna be a disaster and so do you, most of these places are opening with no testing and climbing infection rates, epidemiology is being mixed with civil war and it's just begun. Donald has been and will continue to impede testing in anyway he can, it makes his "numbers" look bad. If he latches on to an effective treatment you will be very lucky, but will still have to control the spread of the contagion. Everybody is discussing the topic here that they are learning about on the fly, its how good public policy is made by an informed electorate. When this study is read out I'll start a thread on its implications for NPIs and availability, provided it is an effective treatment, but the preliminary data indicates it is a highly effective one, even more than plasma transfusions.

I'm not stating it as a scientific fact however, right now we have no data from clinical trials on the efficacy of either treatment, we will in a week and this conversation on NPIs might change a bit based on that, I think it will, but that's an opinion, not a conculsion.