Why do American soldiers think...

[robert 14617]

pad 2 way too harsh with the stereotyping

 

[jesus of Cannabis]

"oh well, you wouldn't know anything about it, you're just a civilian...".

you have no idea so let them be the leaders and you just follow with your mouth shut unless you want to serve our country as well. DOnt fuck with us vets.

 

[jesus of Cannabis]

a lot of these idiots in the military were too dumb for college...

they figured they'll join the military and get incredible training and respect.....

reality hits when all the training they have is to shoot a gun, and they're dropped in some remote wilderness, after the 20th day without a shower, they start to get a little bitter with their life choice...

lol, pansies like yourself are the first ones to die when the shit hits the fan. Keep flipping your burgers.

 

[incognegro999]

FYI to the Vets out there. There is a HBO special called "Battle for Marjah". Its like Black Hawk Down (the movie) but live. RPG'S fired at helicopters, Indirect fire, Bad ass Marines, good watch if your into that kinda thing

 

[doc111]

...that being in the military somehow gives them a better understanding of foreign policy, foreign relations, diplomacy, etc.?

It would seem to me that people studying this stuff in college would probably have a better understanding than your average soldier would..

Yet it happens all the time, I'll get into a discussion with someone whose served, then they invoke "oh well, you wouldn't know anything about it, you're just a civilian...". Even on this forum I've seen it happen, they act as if that automatically makes their position right and anyone else's wrong, as if the real world experience in some combat zone validates their position on foreign relations.

It's bullshit I think, and these soldiers sitting atop these high horses in their shadows of real world experience need to stfu because they simply don't know what the hell they're talking about.

There, I said it.

Keep in mind I'm not talking about all soldiers, just the ones who think they're better than everyone else for "protecting me"...

This kind of reminds me of the whole "I know everything" teenager syndrome. For some reason, Pad, most youngsters think they "know it all". Perhaps it's because they are seeing the world for what it is for the first time. Maybe they are influenced by their peers. I know I was guilty of it. I remember thinking my parents "didn't know shit" and that they just didn't understand teenagers or the problems facing them in the modern world. I thought they were just egotistical pricks that thought that THEY knew it all....................I have since learned that they seemed this way because they DID know it all! Well, not all, but they sure had a lot of insight into the world that I lacked at that time in my life. Instead of having disdain for the people who have experienced more than you, perhaps you should learn to respect and learn from their wisdom. There is no shame in admitting you don't know everything Pad.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I think most of you have gotten the wrong idea, so let me put this thread into context...

It basically started with this conversation between a friend and I on facebook;

like usual, I'm in green, and my commentary is in blue.

"Why would you pray for a people that don't even have the same religion as you it is more of a discrace then anything. and are we forgeting these are the offsring of the fucks that bombed OUR country! why are we so quick to forgive? We should hit them while all their forces are down and turn that island into an interment camp run by minute men!"

"Seriously! Then when we're done we should go handle the British!"

"nice to know we have real Americans left in this country!"

"Lol dude I was being 100% sarcastic."

"civilians so clueless! Don't forget we might owe countries money but do you se any of them knocking on our door?"

"I think it works a little different than that. We're top dog still, for now, but take a look at GDP growth rates, they estimate China will make that transition by 2020. I think the age imperialistic colonialism is done, there's nothing left to colonize. Diplomacy is the key to the future, n you don't secure that by being a dick to everyone else. Just my .02"

"i'm not saying we need to be dicks but why have mercy on a country that planed on killing all men and women then taking the children to become indentured servents amonst their people."

"I don't think any of the original cabinet members are alive, let alone making decisions about policy.. Wouldn't that be similar to holding the current generation of Americans responsible for slavery? If someone needs help and you can provide it, I think its your responsibility to help them. Age, gender, nationality, religion all become irrelevant. Alliances switch all the time, we created our biggest threat in the 1980s, today's friend might be tomorrows "enemy".."

"As long as men have dicks there willalways be war. we can't save the world from it's self some people are just self destructive. I bet if you got your brothers and friends blown to shit in front of you or had to pick up the peices of you comrads you would be singing a different tune. but in your defence i can't expect someone who works at the local (edit for security) to understand the hostility that is present in the world."

Well, there you go, as you can see for yourself this is where it got personal. He took a jab at me personally and implied he's better than I am.

"I understand you've lost people you care about in this war, and I take that into consideration when I reply to posts like these, but there's no reason for you to make that kind of personal attack against me.

IMO, it only shows your ignorance... about the reality of the situation. Compound that with your reluctance to help people in need from a natural disaster (not even a military attack) because of their ancestors actions decades ago..

It's scary some of your guys' nationalism could rival that of the Nazi party..

PS. While you were away fighting to fill rich mens pockets, some of us were stateside learning how to avoid the next pointless conflict."

"i might be ignorant but i live in the real wolrd not a fantasy land where there is peace and fucking tree huggers if you want that move to fucking Canada."

"Why are you so against peace bro?"

"You think i'm against peace! fucking comedian! I fought for peace, for your fucking freedom and watched people die doing the same. Afgan haji's think they are fighting for peace and they bombed america.three times in the same day. although ...you talk of peace you have done nothing to contribute, nothing to make a difference. I have been on both sides of the fence and no matter where you go everyone's idea of peace is different. Peace describes a society or a relationship that is operating harmoniously and without violent conflict. Nowhere in the world is this present not even in todays homes. Husbands hitting and raping their own wifes. Children being beaten and molested. Kiddnappings, murders, suicides, and genocides. are these what you call peace cause that is the world we live in. there will always be war to premote peace and untill people like you get off the couch, stand up, and take it into your own hands who are you to preach? Before you can preach pease you need to first understand it! like i said before i live in the real world... denial is hard to overcome but with time we all see the light."

"now ______ this is what you said "If someone needs help and you can provide it, I think its your responsibility to help them." and that is exactly what we are doing in afganistan. i personaly helped build classrooms, took book, candy, food, ...water, and livestock to villages in need because the taliban came to their village and murdered they're leaders. now according to you thats a form of peace. what have you done oh wait i remeber you said "some of us were stateside learning how to avoid the next pointless conflict." well tell me what you learned...you also stated " While you were away fighting to fill rich mens pockets," i was not putting any money in anyones pocket. i was HEPLing a country that really needs help. that money and prays and support that everyone wants to send to japan will not even reach the general population. it will end up in the pockets of an organization that claims they will send it to realive that country. so who is putting money in rich mens pockets? now just cause i am a MARINE does not mean i am not well educated so don't come at me running your mouth when clearly you have no facts. If you want to watch the news and believe what you hear go ahead...but if you want to find out the truth ask someone who has been there made a difference and a change maybe do a little research and get the facts striaght. or you can get a press pass go only film the bad press then you too can come and lie to a country who has no idea what the fuck is going on in this world cause they never took the time to step out of - name of my city in all CAPS - and do something with there life."

"You cant make a statement like that because you don't know my contributions towards peace. But I've never killed anyone, and I make attempts at understanding whatever "enemy" the state dept. deems a threat to national security. Can you say the same thing, or do you just follow orders? "

"well what have you done to contribute to peace?acctually i do understand the enemy i understand how they opperate how they speak how they live what they eat where they sleep i know about their past enemies i've sat and ate with elders as we...ll as play soccer with the youth. i also know that 75 percent of those fucks can't read which is why it is so easy to get them to join a jehad in the first place. which is why i have personanlly tought many classes on how to read and write dahari as well as poshtu so that the people can decide for themselves who the enemy is. so tell me what do you understand about the "ENEMY""

"Do you know who created the Taliban? For what purpose or why they exist?

I've learned that nationalism can be extremely dangerous, especially in a society that glorifies combat and justifies those actions with fairy tales.

Killing people is... not honorable or coragous or any of that stuff the military says it is. It's bad and it only perpetuates the existing problem for everybody else. It's ironic so many American soldiers believe they are protecting American civilians and the Constitution while putting them both in direct harm, IED's and terrorist attacks in the warzones and corrupt politicians and legislation voiding rights at home. The entire system is the problem.

I can protect my own rights, I don't need anyone else to do it for me, and I never asked anyone to. You guys get a paycheck, just like anyone else who does a job, you wouldn't do it for free, hence the incentives before recruitment, so why would you expect anyones opinion who disagrees with the operation of the US military to be any different than mine? I think it's wrong what they do, I think it's counter productive to solving the problem. I don't think our leaders are interested in actually solving the problems because a lot of them stand to benefit from keeping the conflicts going, in many different ways. So, it leads to the soldiers, being used, as has been all throughout human history, as pawns to consolidate the power to an elite class of people. I see right through the guise of "courage" "honor" "patriotism"... these words are meaningless in the context of life and death and world wars with MILLIONS of innocent people losing their lives..

That's a little of what I've learned...

Understanding how is different than understanding why.

Think about it..."

You decide whose on the high horse, whose the arrogant one...

and in my experience, this attitude from the vets is pretty common. I know 4 or 5 soldiers personally and 3 of them are just like this.

That's what I meant when I said these people don't know shit. They just think they do. Yes, they have real world experience in that they've been to the countries and lived with the people, they know a lot more shit than I do about that type of stuff, but policy, why they are there, why they are fighting, why the "enemy" is fighting them... they know next to nothing of these things. Most of them have a "put politics aside" philosophy while they're there, and I don't blame them, because you need that to survive, yet they believe and argue, exactly as this guy did, that they're right. Even when their opinions are put to the test, what happened here, he just got aggressive when he started losing the argument and resorted to the one thing soldiers DO know something about - violence.

The answer with these people is always to eliminate the "enemy"... then when you point out there will always be enemies as long as this attitude exists, it's you whose wrong...

 

[Mindmelted]

I bet your pussy ass will be the first dead when shit hits the fan.
People like you are the first ones rotting in the sun.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Keep validating my opinion, asshat.

 

[incognegro999]

If you have such strong feelings about this can I ask why this person is your friend?

 

[doc111]

I think most of you have gotten the wrong idea, so let me put this thread into context...

It basically started with this conversation between a friend and I on facebook;

like usual, I'm in green, and my commentary is in blue.



You decide whose on the high horse, whose the arrogant one...

and in my experience, this attitude from the vets is pretty common. I know 4 or 5 soldiers personally and 3 of them are just like this.

That's what I meant when I said these people don't know shit. They just think they do. Yes, they have real world experience in that they've been to the countries and lived with the people, they know a lot more shit than I do about that type of stuff, but policy, why they are there, why they are fighting, why the "enemy" is fighting them... they know next to nothing of these things. Most of them have a "put politics aside" philosophy while they're there, and I don't blame them, because you need that to survive, yet they believe and argue, exactly as this guy did, that they're right. Even when their opinions are put to the test, what happened here, he just got aggressive when he started losing the argument and resorted to the one thing soldiers DO know something about - violence.

The answer with these people is always to eliminate the "enemy"... then when you point out there will always be enemies as long as this attitude exists, it's you whose wrong...

How did he resort to "violence"? I fail to see how there was anything "violent" about your back and forth with this guy. Did he threaten you personally and I just missed it? I'm kinda confused. You are doing what a lot of people on the outside of any subject looking in do. You bust out the broad brush and start painting! Comments like "Most of them" are a dead giveaway. lol! The U.S. military contains over a million people who come from very diverse backgrounds, from the ghettos and backwoods all the way up to the Ivy League. I knew many people when I was in who were VERY interested in politics and who had a VERY good grasp on the hows and the whys. The biggest problem here Pad is that this issue is bigger than any one person. Even those who have the most "Insight" into this area cannot possibly grasp it all. Example: Many of these tribes living in Aghanistan have lived a relatively isolated existence for centuries and have developed their own dialects, customs, superstitions. And there are hundreds of these tribes! Many of them have ongoing disputes/grievances with neighboring tribes which further complicates the matter. The guys on the ground are the ones living amongst these people, learning their customs and practices, eating alongside them and their families. The guy sitting at home reading periodicals and journals may have a lot of "book" knowledge, but it's not a substitute for real world experience, trust me!

 

[Mindmelted]

And my statement does not validate your dumbass opinion at all douecebag

 

[562FireK]

I agree that soldiers have more legitimate experience with other cultures and whatnot, but I do agree that some have an ego problem.
I have respect for soldiers putting their life on the line, but at the same time, can I say I respect someone for supporting the ever growing military industrial complex and supporting these meaningless wars that ARENT to protect us, but to further the agenda of our corrupt politicians? Nope.

 

[doc111]

I agree that soldiers have more legitimate experience with other cultures and whatnot, but I do agree that some have an ego problem.
I have respect for soldiers putting their life on the line, but at the same time, can I say I respect someone for supporting the ever growing military industrial complex and supporting these meaningless wars that ARENT to protect us, but to further the agenda of our corrupt politicians? Nope.

Some PEOPLE have ego problems.

 

[incognegro999]

Soldiers are just a cross section of America. People from all different walks of life, race, lifestyle, etc etc.

 

[iNVESTIGATE]

You are taking it in the wrong light, Padawan is right. The reason the military is over in other countries is the countries foreign policy, the fact that the military is there shouldn't manipulate the policies on war. The argument, I believe, on one side is that war is inherently wrong, and the otherside believes it is honorable when justified. The problem arises in that most people who serve willingly will think when they served it was justified, therefore honorable. These soldiers have a vested interest in war continuing or at least being a recognized option, even though it destroys them, its called propaganda. It also feeds on the obvious adrenal system which includes reinforced reward systems.

Peace

Hammer on head of nail.

Sadly, war is a business...

What is it again? USA has over 700 bases all over the world. Occupying around 130 Countries our of 195.. and with not a single foreign base in the US..


Beauty way for Perpetual war

 

[Howard Stern]

I served in the Military and have been alll over the world. For the most part soldiers don't know much more than any other American. I don't feel that my opinion is more important than any other just because I served, I feel that way because I am a fucking crazy narcissist! LOL And I do thank all that served but just because you went overseas and followed orders doesn't make you a athority on all forighn relations, you were just doing your job!

 

[incognegro999]

Hammer on head of nail.

Sadly, war is a business...

What is it again? USA has over 700 bases all over the world. Occupying around 130 Countries our of 195.. and with not a single foreign base in the US..



Beauty way for Perpetual war

I dont understand. So would you rather have no army or Force everyone to serve?

 

[incognegro999]

I served in the Military and have been alll over the world. For the most part soldiers don't know much more than any other American. I don't feel that my opinion is more important than any other just because I served, I feel that way because I am a fucking crazy narcissist! LOL And I do thank all that served but just because you went overseas and followed orders doesn't make you a athority on all forighn relations, you were just doing your job!

I dont think anyone is claiming otherwise.

 

[Ernst]

I find it amazing that some people can't think for themselves....

Now why would a soldier or Marine feel as though they have a better grasp of cultural differences of a foreign land over say, a civilian that has never left the USA..... Before they deploy, they are advised and given sheets of information regarding religion, habits, culture, dress, etc. The reason is so that they don't accidentally offend the people they are protecting. I remember the first time I was given one of those.... it was for Iraq in Dessert Storm. We learned not to show the palm of the right hand as in a wave or gesture, as it was considered rude. You also didn't make a comment like 'nice watch', because they would feel obligated to give it to you since you admire it so much and they feel indebted....

That is just a couple of examples.....


oh, and the main reason they can feel that way? They served.... they know what it is to be boots on the ground...

The Famous if you turn your back to someone and they see it as an insult it's legal for them to stab you.

And the "Throwing your shoe" at someone means they are lower than the dirt on the bottom of your shoe.

Yep.. Gotta love some assignments.

 

[iNVESTIGATE]

I dont understand. So would you rather have no army or Force everyone to serve?

That's just too bad..

i would have no countries, first of all, so there is no goddamn reason to separate, divide & conquer human beings into factions/heirachires of "lesser humans". Manifesting and creating a cracked-out militarized super ego superiority nation-state.

Revenge is never the fucking solution.


And, if i had to have some sort of military-type force.. it would be voluntary. Navy SEAL kinda shit. lol Go in steathly w/ a little to no casualty take. not blowing shit to hell and highwater. No conscription/forced draft.. or glorification desensitization of pure fucking horrible shit... perpetuating while WATCHING & THEN LIVING w/ UNECESSARY DEATH/Your so-called "Glory"