X2. Google "HB Gary Annonymous" They destroyed the top internet security company for the US government, forced the CEO to resign and spurred hundreds of millions of dollars worth of lawsuits with the scandal they unveild with the e-mails they released.
Occupy Wall Street Day 11+
- Thread starter deprave
- Start date
thisis the first video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gP9q61Fjlqo#! Occupywallst is apperantly the first phase.
more fun videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-eFxCDx7Yw&feature=related #Occupywallst
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocZ426a4cSo&feature=related The truth about the war for Libya and why that 144 TONNES of gold is still missing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O35_Ai6EsMU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n9N6E-n_hE&feature=related L O Fucking L
more fun videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-eFxCDx7Yw&feature=related #Occupywallst
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocZ426a4cSo&feature=related The truth about the war for Libya and why that 144 TONNES of gold is still missing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O35_Ai6EsMU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n9N6E-n_hE&feature=related L O Fucking L
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
My perspective is that the average American knows jack-shit about how the country REALLY operates, much less how the WORLD operates. There is just so much more going on than most people care to realize. It's all there, I mean, people can "plug-in" to the scene of global politics (and watch how it is intrinsically linked to domestic politics), and actually learn HOW to get real information - or, they can continue to swallow swillmilk from major propagandists like Alex Jones.
I would hold that there is shared responsibility of the financial crisis: The people who pushed the papers, and the people that signed them. Personally, I think that the carelessness shown by the people in positions of power within the financial institutions deplorable. But, at the same time people should have understood the terms of their mortages before committing to them, that's THEIR fuck up. As a non home owner, and a tax-payer, I CAN hold them both accountable, and say that their careless actions affected the nation. People expected to pay out their asses in taxes without ANY bailout (like me) suffered the most. As my generation will continue to pay out of our asses until we are ready to retire in poverty...but that's another problem no one gives two shits about.
And Lobbyist groups have strong political influence because they can corrupt the process by buying favor. It's just that simple. That's why VOTING is important, that's why paying a-fucking-ttention is so goddamn important. People cant just vote their congressman into office and then forget about them, there has to be some follow through. Lobbyist groups work because they organize, they contribute, they get in the faces of the lawmakers...in short, they are EFFECTIVE. They have clearly defined aims, they write policy, ready for signature. More importantly, they KNOW THE GAME. Most people don't know SHIT, and that's why the people will be fooled time and time again. They want quick fixes, they want someone else to do it for them. Lobbyists are dedicated, and streamlined. Just "wanting" our policy makers to change the policies they write will go nowhere. Until people realize that it takes playing the game, and playing by the rules (which obviously aren't that strict), THINGS WONT CHANGE.
Your response is well thought out and rational, but it fails at this point.
I assure you there was very little "carelessness" at so called "financial institutions". This was well planned and executed with full knowledge of the outcome. There are many good books documenting this process. There are litterally hundreds of well known, well regarded experts that were screaming their collective heads off about this exact situation that was innevitable. Yet when it all comes crashing down everyone accepts the "no one could have possibly forseen this" aliby.
It is unrelented, free-market capitalism at its worst and was driven by the most collectively useless human instinct - GREED.
Lobbyists: Useless drains for souls. Litterally the tool that has been undermining the middle class for the better part of a century, thus destroying the entire economy that was built around it.
Lobbyists spent a collective 3.5 billion on how many elected members? 435. SO thats about 8 million dollars a peice, if distrubted evenly. And thats just the federal level. They control -not influence- all levels of government.
http://corporatejusticeblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/lobbyists-spend-record-35-billion-in.html
The economy will not recover untill the interests of the middle class are put first again. Our economy runs on consumption and its the middle class that does the consuming.
Did you see Michael Moore?
deprave
New Member
#1 Flaw in your entire argument is - The Government should work for the people, not the other way around.
first off, regarding the financial crisis, you blame the people! Just like they want you to do! Predatory lending was a major factor, the ones who are at fault by a factor of 99% or more is the financial Institutions and the FED. To keep it short: the financial institutions are the ones who ran the greedy scams and the fed enabled them, participated, and encouraged them, period.
On your lobbyist comments...you say it takes people paying attention, voting, and playing the game....laughable....you even admit that this will NEVER happen and "THINGS WONT CHANGE"....Theres an inherit flaw in the system when a million dollars can get you whatever the hell you want regardless of the outcome on society, the people, and the earth. Its happening all over this world, free democracy or not, money corrupts, money should be OUT of politics...When our elected officials need millions of dollars to GET ELECTED...Thats a problem! When Special interest and corporations control the vote, Thats a problem!
You say we should - HOLD OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS ACCOUNTABLE - by Voting! Really?! Do you really believe that people can hold elected officials accountable by who they vote in? Give me a fucking break. Again, Government works for us, we don't work for them.
a lot of recent events fall into text in Ken Adach's New world order theory.
Theres a lot of bat shit in it, but also a lot of seemingly phsychic predictions that have come true. Pretty creepy......
http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/
Theres a lot of bat shit in it, but also a lot of seemingly phsychic predictions that have come true. Pretty creepy......
http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/
Cali chronic
Well-Known Member
Watching these videos reassures my belief that anyone with a Badge is above the law. I have known this since I was 8 yrs old.
CHASE bank donated almost 4 million to the Policeman's fund B.T.W--- Is that them buying insurance?
Well as this unfolds, it sure makes one think how unsafe another country really is; or how safe is this country for that matter?
Those tactics are usually what we send our Military to other countries to protect citizens or regular unarmed people from Goon squads or dictatorship. Not any different, in my opinion.
I live in So. Cal and the Fulleton Police--the guys who beat a man to death and one cop is out on Bail with 2nd degree murder charges (try that if you are a regular guy) and the other cop who held the guy down, is looking at 3 years while the other 4 who were there and armed did nothing to stop it. No resisting on the part of the victim, just fetal position and the man calling out "dad" "dad" "help me" Please.
That same department is now settling a case where one of Fullerton's PD is accused of Rape of two other woman and this guy has been on paid leave for 2 years while they hash it out!
Things are very broken and sadly people sit by and watch it happen. I think the Drug Cartels got it right in Mexico myself.
CHASE bank donated almost 4 million to the Policeman's fund B.T.W--- Is that them buying insurance?
Well as this unfolds, it sure makes one think how unsafe another country really is; or how safe is this country for that matter?
Those tactics are usually what we send our Military to other countries to protect citizens or regular unarmed people from Goon squads or dictatorship. Not any different, in my opinion.
I live in So. Cal and the Fulleton Police--the guys who beat a man to death and one cop is out on Bail with 2nd degree murder charges (try that if you are a regular guy) and the other cop who held the guy down, is looking at 3 years while the other 4 who were there and armed did nothing to stop it. No resisting on the part of the victim, just fetal position and the man calling out "dad" "dad" "help me" Please.
That same department is now settling a case where one of Fullerton's PD is accused of Rape of two other woman and this guy has been on paid leave for 2 years while they hash it out!
Things are very broken and sadly people sit by and watch it happen. I think the Drug Cartels got it right in Mexico myself.
mame
Well-Known Member
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
I didn't entirely "blame the people," you read that, because I wrote it, and that's the text to which you're replying. That's a flaw in argumentative strategy. In debate, when you fail to address arguments made, it is judged "negatively" for the exchange.
More importantly, it wasn't as if the lenders held their clients at gun point to sign the papers. Who was working for who?
I want to know what assurances you have, what gracious blind faith that you possess, for you to actually think that right now, there is any way that is a model that is going away anytime soon. There are few desirable, REAL WORLD methods to make a "lobbyist free" governance possible, they will fail because they are completely authoritarian in nature and will incite even further unrest... I admire your idealism, but reality is not with your opinion, or your concern. It will be what it remains. And if you can't see how that's for the better, I don't know what else to tell you.
Unfortunately, the main problem, and hindrance, to people actually having power over their elected leaders is that they display none, and ask for little obedience. Instead, people knowingly remain oblivious to their undertakings, except for the occasional mentions in the press, as if there were only enough information to report, in about two pages.
I just think that there are better, more appropriate ways towards effective change.
Well, the answer I think is to turn our country into something like Holy Mountain a la Jodoworksy...
The problem is that we ARE still consuming. People are buying all sorts of goofy shit, for extravagent prices. Filling the pockets of companies filling the suitcases of money to be given by lobbyists in order to fill the pockets of politicians. What to do? What's the plan for changing the paradigm?
I envision the "solution" proposed as a situation that will probably require that the politicians themselves will write the laws. I don't know how that makes sense in your world, but to me that sounds like a really bad idea. That's dangerous, I think. That is why I believe if ordinary people knew how to organize, and approach not just politics, but politicians, via voting, demonstrations, pointed activisim, not vague objectives, there would BE change, tangible change.
hazyintentions
Well-Known Member
This guy is a testament to what the "Occupy Wallstreet" is about.
[video=youtube;uZmPWcLQ1Mk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZmPWcLQ1Mk&feature=player_embedded[/video]
[video=youtube;uZmPWcLQ1Mk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZmPWcLQ1Mk&feature=player_embedded[/video]
deprave
New Member
that sure does, glad to see some people are woken up..someone found another guy down there who was awake...
[video=youtube;8qnGlQWKoXE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qnGlQWKoXE[/video]
deprave
New Member
Same old argument, Liberty is idealism and its not practical, you must be practical...for example...you can't let people cheat, lie, kill, hurt others, or steal, for example you don't take peoples social security/medicare away from people who already have it...There can be social justice in a libertarian society. Additionally..there is a practical implementation for every part of the liberty philosophy and by doing so we could eventually restore this republic and have it work in the modern world and in real world scenarios. Liberty and our republic has been lost piece by piece very slowly ever since 1910..It won't be easy to undo what they have done and it will take some time.
Republicans today now those are ideologues and their policies are not practical...Libertarian thats a whole different ball game...
Its funny how they have taken Social Liberties and Economic liberties out of the discussion. Republicans claim they are for liberty but THIS IS A LIE, conservative 'Values' are not about Liberty, Regan created this, liberty is the libertarian philosophy(duh), to be conservative truly means that you are for more economic liberties and less social liberties....
The democrats aren't even involved in this discussion either, the Democrats are under the guise of civil rights and social justice, while social liberties are what really attract people to say they are a democrat.
RollMeOne420
Active Member
i called the number but no one answered? hum maybe hes sleeping
deprave
New Member
If it didn't cost millions of dollars to run for federal office, and it was popular vote, then we wouldn't get corporate puppets running for president, any federal seat cost millions..thats why we have millionaire politicians doing whatever they can to make the most millions to get re-elected again in the federal office, to run for re-election a senator needs at least 4 million dollars so wtf hows he going to get 4 million dollars and keep his job when he only makes a tiny fraction of that as a senator? by "campaigning" HA! Showing up at a debate is not even important these days and they SKIP debates because .....corporate sponsors are the most important thing.
I happen to think your a a lot more of an ideologue then me actually...with a lot less ideas. Id like to hear your proposals? (Aside from 'quit whining' or the equivalent)
JFK started talking like this guy. He ended up with a huge hole in his head...... JFK was hoarding silver on behalf of the American people in order to drop the federal reserve and introduce a US currency based on Silver. HE got a bullet for it. Heres a great sound clip of JFK begging the American Newspaper association for support, he knew he was in the crosshairs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeYgLLahHv8
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
I don't even know what to say to you here, I mean, you haven't even addressed what was said. It's just another nonsensical tangent of criticism, and essentially pointless.
It's fine to find me an "idealogue," I was one for a long time. Until I became frustrated by the lack of initiative that is self-evident by "99%" of people that refuse to change a damn thing. I gave you ideas already - and you dismissed them. I told you exactly what to do: Vote with your money, and learn the system to play the game. Apparently, those ideas have bearing in your mind.
The "ideas" you have are so backwards they make no sense whatsoever. Until you have an elected body that you TRUST to execute the desired reforms, you are setting yourself up for a total disaster (a point that you completely ignore to address). You are advocating reforms with no clue as to how to implement them, or more importantly WHO is going to do it. Again, ignorance to reality, in regards to how political work actually gets done, is your downfall. Until you can outline a CLEAR picture of how your platform has any legs to stand on, I will oppose it on principal.
deprave
New Member
Poor people can't do the part I highlighted in red, major problem...and when I say 'poor people' ...I mean non-giant multinational corporations and special interests groups..actual people ya know....
I believe I addressed most of your "ideas" and you haven't addressed hardly any of mine, only dismissing them and not listening. So sure let me break it down for you 'The Plan' a little bit for you once again.
Also What don't you get about 'Get Money out of Politics' and why must 'someone else write the laws' in order to do this? You know I think back to a time...way way back when, in the olden days before july 2010 when lobbyist weren't so powerful and yeah....So heres some more damn bullet points for ya:
*Audit the books of the major financial institutions, the fed, and other major corporations, APPLY the Rule Of Law...The honest shall survive.
* SUPER PACS - WTF - A PAC to which corporations, unions, and other organizations can donate freely. These did not exist prior to the recent Citizens United decision, in which the Supreme Court ruled that corporations must be treated as individuals in terms of having "protected speech", including the right to spend money unregulated ...WTF!
* Get rid of the electoral college and go by popular vote
*End The Left-Right Delusion, Corporatism Is The True Enemy
*End the wars and bring the troops home (including the drug war)
I mean..this is all recent stuff thats why I ask if you read the paper, and you give me the smart ellec remark that you read the most prominent news sites, you must do so very selectively or you conveniently missed the part where they shoved a stick in our ass and rubbed it back and forth on a daily basis.