Let me simplify it for you. Anarchy would create a vacuum, something would take its place, socialism fails but takes forever to do it until the populace is decimated.
Are you Capitalist or Socialist?
- Thread starter Geronimo420
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Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
the saddest part is, its all true. i do know what im talking about, and denying the facts of history, and the true record of marxism, and its sub-categories of socialism and communism will only serve to enslave you. read marx and engles more, then reaqd trotsky and lenin (the true believers who died for their faith in marxism). then just peruse the actions of the second string marxists who came off the bench when lenin and trotsky were cast out. stalin, pol pot, mao, hitler, mussolini, franco, castro, kim il sun, and so many others, each one more of a bastard than the last, but each one mouthing the marxist party line and each one endorsed by the worker's world party, and the comintern. but then, maybe we just havent had the RIGHT marxist leaders yet. surely a few dozen more tries isnt too much to ask, after all look at how good hugo chavez is doing, why he is beloved of all the peoples, and gets re-elected with a 99% margin, of course a few journalists have to disappear, and nobody is allowed to oppose him in an election, but still, he is a magnificent marxist!
those silly venezuelans just dont recognize greatness, even when they have it thrust upon them!
billybob420
Well-Known Member
yes yes... and marxism is not a form of socialism and anarcho-syndicalism started in the 70s. I got it.
billybob420
Well-Known Member
To imply Lenin died for Marxism is a sick joke.
Canna Sylvan
Well-Known Member
No government doesn't mean no rule. The world wouldn't plunge into chaos if we eliminated the puppet masters, we'd just not be puppets, free to live our lives. Terrible huh?
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
no, you have it wrong. socialism is a subset of marxism, a middle ground before the grand utopia of the workers paradise. socialism springs from marx and engles, with the goal of initiating the world communist revolution they desired.
billybob420
Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
lenin was a tireless ally for the workers of the world, and despite his able and charismatic leadership stalin was able to redirect the russian revolution away from communism and the marxist dream and towards the eternal static despotism of socialism. lenin was a true believer, stalin was an opportunist.
you imply that lenin's many wounds at the hands of assassins (for the czarists, and the stalinist bloc) did not eventually kill him, i suppose youll claim he died from syphilis? nice revisionist history. two years before his death a western surgeon removed the bullet from his neck that he had carried for nearly 5 years, and this doctor didnt see syphilis. he saw a tired and battered man on the ragged edge who never stopped working for his dream of the marxist utopia.
i dont agree with marxism, nor communism, but it is harmless and rather charming in it's naivete. it only becomes poisonous in it's half measures, like socialism. there has never been a communal society larger than a small tribal group because it cannot work outside the strict confines of a narrowly defined social structure based on mutual support, ie: a large family or small clan, where everybody is directly related to everybody. even hippie communes in northern california are constantly adding and losing members to the outside world, and the voluntary nature of communism makes it completely harmless.
socialism is all the least efficient parts of communism enforced by the threat of violence and surrounded by barbed wire fences to keep the prisoners inside. anyone can come into a socialist dictatorship, you just cant leave afterwards.
anyone who wants to claim they are a socialist but doesn't understand that socialism was a necessary evil on the road to marxist communism is either being duped, or trying to dupe somebody else. the shit is not as secret, you can get the communist manifesto for free at any communist bookstore, any communist party office or on the interwebs. real communists dont hide their agenda or their ideals, because they believe in it.
only the bastards use word games and secrecy to conceal their intentions, and bastards only care about one thing, themselves.
billybob420
Well-Known Member
Whether Lenin was an ally of the working class I suppose is up to who you ask. I would say no. He sold out the real revolutionaries in order to consilidate power and essentially stopped the revolution in it's tracks (all in the name of revolution, ironically, enough).
And yes, I think he died of syphilis. It's no surprised the communist dictatorship would want to hide that fact.
I guess we'll never agree about what socialism is. I believe it is an umbrella term which encompasses many ideologies, some of those ideologies being "socialist" in name or implication only, practice is another thing.
billybob420
Well-Known Member
Oh, and tell the victims of the numerous pogroms that communism is harmless.
What was it like... 20 million or so? Yeah... real fuckin harmless.
What was it like... 20 million or so? Yeah... real fuckin harmless.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
so wikipedia trumps the communist manifesto, and all the writings of marx, engles, trotsky, lenin, mussolini, mao and all the rest who created marxist philosophy? nice try. get yourself some free copies of the communist manifesto and all the other works by real marxists and see if you cant get your read on.
protip: communism is the goal, and communism is stateless, thereby rendering socialist states obsolete. read more homey.
also yoiur wiki-crap fails to include fascism as a socilaist type, as well as naziism, and the khmer rouge. it completely misses the point of marx and tries to conflate the modern rebranding of stalinist style nationalaist socialist despotism with the stateless communist utopia marx envisioned.
anarchists are not marxists, they are anarchists, stalinists have appropriated the anarchist's rhetoric to use as a fig leaf to hide their desires for power and control. socialism is NOT a type of government philosophy, socialism is intended to be the middle ground between a capitalist exploitative state and the stateless communist workers paradise. stalinists and maoist love the power and privilege they get as heads of their awesome prison regimes but they are gangsters, not political philosophers.
learn the difference.
i dont even believe in marxism but why the fuck do i understand it better than those who profess to adhere to it's teachings? its really not that hard to understand. its fucking simplistic and childlike in it's faith in human nature and belief that everybody will do the right thing if theres no reason not to.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
that was socialism, the ugly and unpleasant middle ground BEFORE communism takes over and we all have puppies and ponies and rainbows every day.
you really need to actually read marx and engles before you run forth with a red banner and declare your support for pol pot and stalin.
I would like to be a communist with ponies and rainbows.
I have my helmet on so all of you angry people can yell out your opinions now. I'm ready, go on tell me how wrong I am and that you know how the world really works. I want to hear your thoughts on life being hard and how ya gotta pay your dues. Freedom isn't free? Is anyone ready to share that little ditty with me 'cause I've never heard that one before. Come on, I'm listening. Wait I gotta go take a shit so my sphincter will be empty and ready for some dissenting soul to give it to me good and still stay clean for the wife. Ahhh....OK I'm really ready now........GO
I have my helmet on so all of you angry people can yell out your opinions now. I'm ready, go on tell me how wrong I am and that you know how the world really works. I want to hear your thoughts on life being hard and how ya gotta pay your dues. Freedom isn't free? Is anyone ready to share that little ditty with me 'cause I've never heard that one before. Come on, I'm listening. Wait I gotta go take a shit so my sphincter will be empty and ready for some dissenting soul to give it to me good and still stay clean for the wife. Ahhh....OK I'm really ready now........GO
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
there is no "agree to disagree" with the simple facts of marxism and it's subsets. you cant say "well thats just your opinion" and declare victory. you are WRONG you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the marxism you claim to support, and you have no knowledge of the theories or the implementation of said theories.
by any definition you are a jingoist, a parrot who repeats what he has been told and runs off to spread the good news about socialism's beauty, despite the fact that socialismn is the ugly stepchild of marxism, and the grisly mucoius plug that precedes the birth of communism and the workers paradise.
you have swallowed the barbed hook of semantics and have swapped the positions of socialism (a planned economy and despotic state based on marxist theories) and communism (a stateless economy-less workers paradise where their is no need for politburos, commissars or gulags because everybody just shares everything) you are deluded. grab you some book and read, before you step in too deep.
Socialism:
fascist italy under mussolini
nazi germany under hitler
khmer rouge cambodia under pol pot
the peoples republic of china under the maost regime
spain under franco
cuba under the castro brothers
north korea under the kim dynasty
iran under the mullahs
iraq under saddam
afghanistan under the talibs
russia under the soviet regime
vietnam under the que doc tran whatever regime
venezualea under hugo chavez
and many more in south america africa and the middle east
Democratic Socialism:
most of western europe, scaninavia ireland and parts of south america and africa.
they surrender their freedoms little by little for more stability in their economy and more handouts. the same poison being sold by the left and the right today in america
True Communist States:
(this space for rent)
marxism is about the communist ideal, not socialist jackboots. that it has become redefined as such is just a sign of the historical ignorance and illiteracy in the ipod generation.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
thats why marxism is so appealing, it paints a picture of a new world with smiling people and picnics on the grass, and noodle salad, but unfortunately before you get to the picnic, the bus is hijacked by socialists and driven to cuba, or cambodia or soviet russia, or north korea.
thats the socialist poison in the marxist pie. you never get the communist utopia, you just get the boot on your neck for your own good.
billybob420
Well-Known Member
Good talking to you Dr.
You're still wrong though. It's cool, we're all wrong sometimes.
You're still wrong though. It's cool, we're all wrong sometimes.
cleverpiggy
Well-Known Member
I think any youngster with dreams of a socialist society needs to spend a summer camp in North Korea. That is the reality of social-communism in its purist form. These silly twats I see boasting about the utopia of a socialist society need to have a talk with a person who lived behind the Iron Curtain. I work with many ex-pats from the cold war days and guess what they all say. When the propaganda agents told them of the mass suffering the average US citizen goes though on a daily basis under the evils of capitalism the typical response was ...boy If I could only suffer like an American. PS don't come back with some BS text book argument explaining to me the difference between socialism and communism, they are the same thing. The main goal is to crush the human spirit into submission in the pursuit of even distribution and fairness to all. Guess what folks life is not fair, as a matter of fact it is a monumental motherfucker that is a constant struggle, there is no easy way out no matter what some ideological teacher/professor or worthless politician tells you. You only have yourself to depend on when it comes down to it.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
yep, taking the marx out of marxism and redefining it to suit the newspeak sure does make for easy rightness.
too bad marx and engles defined communism socilaism and marxism quite sufficiently, and attempting to redefine the brand just makes the foundations look weak.
the gritty reboot to marxism with communism as the villain and socialism as the fucking batman is laughable in its stupidity. marx invented communism and socialism, not the other way around.
bedspirit
Active Member
That was the shit. I always wanted to take the time to explain this, but assumed it would be a waste of time. It's not easy to deprogram the brainwashed.
billybob420
Well-Known Member
You really believe Marx and Engles were the first to use the term "socialism"?
And I agree there is no agreeing to disagree, but we're gonna disagree whether we agree to it or not. I'm talking about Socialism as everyone else talks about it, you're talking about Socialism as Marxists use it, which is strange cause, you're not a Marxist. Marx was not the first to use the term socialism. If anything, he redefined it, as being a stage in "Marxism".