Atheism & Spirituality

word i respect that. i've definitely seen a ghost before though. not cool.. oh new thread.

Yeah, sarcasm. So hard to put across without blatantly adding, I said sarcastically. It was in response to you saying that I don't understand, although you haven't as yet clarified what this is.

You get funnier by the second, you've actually seen a ghost have you? Ha ha ha. Now you are delving into the realms of the completely ridiculous.

Ghosts and wizards... believe in vampires too?

Want to know why ghosts are logically impossible (although from what I have already witnessed logic has no place in your mind)?

Desired User Name said:

Nothing funner than discussing "what if" bullshit, eh?

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is that referring to my post? unless u have a hard time following what i was describing, theres no need to say that all bullshit. its a very simple way to describe the universe, a way that doesnt include faith in religion. its alot to read but most of it involves breaking down preconceived notions that have been passed down generations, often times to misguide or manipulate the masses.

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:

religion is just something humans have created in there mind ,animals dont worry about religion the dinosaurs didnt worry about religion...

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religion is just a way of life. a path, sometimes ppl interpret holy books literally and they come up with all sorts of crazy shit. most religions arent that bad, most religions are exactly the same.

how do u know animals dont "worry about religion"? u talk to them? besides, we all have religion in one way or another, even if we refuse to believe in a higher power.

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:

sorry to be blunt but when you die you just rot away end of .no little thing ,energy ,ghost or anything else floats up and flys off to heaven .
but hey you can believe in what you like the same as me ,i just like to believe in science (something you can see and do ) .

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ignorance. yeah, ur body will rot and die (hopefully humans will start to get cremated more often, the burial of our dead is really starting to waste land) but that doesnt explain what u see while u are rotting. ppl die for moments and get brought back to life in hospitals all the time, many say they witness things while they are "dead"

Jordy Villain said:

yeah man i do. But it's manifestation, I'm not sure. I'm not going to pretend liek I have all the answers or understand everything I believe in. that's why it's called 'the path'..

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i totally respect ur religious view. its cool, its positive, it allows for a nice life that continues to work off a deep meaning. but wouldnt it be nice to actually know what makes the universe the way it is? wouldnt it be nice to simply have the piece of mind that u know whats going on, but at the same time everything u do is beautiful?

i mean, thats what u got right now, but it relies on faith. u accept that u dont know, and continue on knowing that u never will following the path ur on (that is untill u receive final confirmation in the afterlife.) me n u have very similar views, im speakin to u right now because of this. im getting real tired of getting involved in these discussions, ive spent all of my adolescent years staring at walls trying to figure shit out, i figure i'd share what i got with people that could understand.

i figured that since most of my ideas that felt groundbreaking to me were realized thru the use of drugs, other ppl that smoke the herb of truth on a regular basis may be apt to hearing my words. but most ppl here are just as stubborn and deluded as the sober folks i see every day.

anyway jordy, like i said our views are very similar in nature, but i base my knowledge on a more mathematically measurable view of the big picture. u might dig it, hell it might start a whole new path for you. a new path of newly understood self-worth that continues to allow u to follow ur Sufi traditions.

catgirl said:

Just be and you will eventually see the truth that is you and me...

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just read my fuckin post and u will see the truth today. seriously, has anybody taken the time to understand where im coming from?

skunkushybrid said:

Preo', you yourself will be the first to admit that perceptions change. One day your whole outlook on life will change preo'. For me it happened exactly 5 years later than the age you are now.

It's our environment that causes us to think the way we do. I was an angry motherfucker before I met my wife. One day you'll meet a girl, people used to say this shit to me too and I used to think I meet fucking lots of them, but I mean THE girl. The one that is going to change your outlook on life, make you realise that there's more to life than personal satisfaction.

I don't mean this in a patronising way but a lot of things you say are things I used to say. You don't have a borderline personality disorder you're just becoming an adult. Always a difficult transition for an intelligent teenager.

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Borderline personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
im not one of those little whiny bitches trying to come up with a reason to justify why my life is so shitty. ive had bpd all my life, the duality i see everyday has me interact in a way that is seen as strange to ppl, so i get labeled as unwell.

and for the record i tend to be a generally happy person nowadays, im not angry in the least. sometimes i fail to show emotion, and thats seen as a lack of compassion, lack of enjoyment, but its all in the mind of who is watching/listening to me. i use neutral phrases, i dont make facial expressions naturally. sometimes i might say negative things, but i was brought up in a really sarcastic household. i like dark humor.

and i see that my perception is changing, yes. im going thru a huge change right now, and thats mainly because im finally done examining the world, im ready to really start living. hopefully the next girl i find will be the one that u describe, i have faith that i will find somebody one day. but honestly that wont change how i see the world.

personal satisfaction. yeah. i dont see that part of my life changing either. i help ppl everyday. ive havent turned down somebody asking a favor in years, but i do it because it makes me happy to see somebody else better off. i receive gratification from everything i do, every action i go threw with is a productive one, a positive one that benefits me as well as those around me. i throw in the "hail satan" every once in a while to play around in a sarcastic way (knowing that most ppl have a very disturbed view of what satanism really is) but yeah once again, for the record, im a very happy, likable guy that just happens to be misunderstood by everybody he comes in contact with (with a few exceptions of course)

(p.s. im really not all that egotistical either. im sure there are lots of things i will come to realize that will alter my course, i will take ur words to heart skunkush.)

I understand you preo'... and you don't have borderline personality disorder, at least not in the way you think. We are all one step away from the edge.

Take a big lump of XTC, a big lump... trust me. I know it will change your perception.

wow. at first i wasnt liking what i was reading (im damn certain ive had bpd for a while now. not really all, some shit happened when i was about 8 yrs old.) but then i imagined what would happen if i took a handful of x. (ive taken some in the past, barely felt it. ill have to take a big lump like u said) i imagined myself completely happy and not being able to hold bad compassion. and then i felt a deep whole in my chest like i needed a cig, and i wiped the idea from my head instinctively. all in a split second.

fucking deep man. im not gonna assume too much, but u may have just done be a great favor in giving that advice. im in a weird mind state right now, something i havent felt in a long, long, long time.

What do you all think about the "Left Behind" books?
I mean that is taking it to the limit or atleast that is how I feel.

These people that used to work with me were telling me about them.
Apparently the "rapture" comes and people start disappearing leaving nothing but their clothes.
I mean come on. Do people really believe this?

i dont think many ppl actually go for all that stuff, its just entertaining reading. but they are the same in nature as the holy bible verses pertaining to the apocalypse.

i was just thinking about the rapture last night.

some of the verses pertaining to the biblical apocalypse were written around 100ad, in a time where christians were being heavily prosecuted by the romans. if u read the descriptions of the beasts that show the coming of the apocalypse, they resemble the political leaders at the time.

the rapture was written as a tool in giving ppl hope that their righteous lives will one day pay off. but thats stupid. living in such a way would be the pay the off if done correctly. ppl failed to see that when they saw their fellow christians nailed to upside down crucifixes set ablaze. today, ppl shouldnt worry about such injustices. the injustices we face today are conservative views that constrict social change for the better. conservative views that are kept alive because of the holy bible and its cousins.

Apocalypse (Greek: Ἀποκάλυψις -translit. APOKALYPSIS, literally: the lifting of the veil), is a term applied to the disclosure to certain privileged persons of something hidden from the mass of humankind. Today the term is often used to mean "end of the world", which may be a shortening of the phrase apokalupsis eschaton which literally means "revelation at the end of the world".

we are living in the age of satan. the apocalypse is among us. the veil is slowly being lifted. faith in monotheism is slowing dissolving in the way polytheism has been.

the holy bible describes jesus coming back to defeat the antichrist and ppl read it and go "yea! the good guys win!" and it ends there. but with mordern sociology as a base, it is easy to see that good and evil are really just human concepts. they do not really exist. the battle between good and evil are within our minds, not with godly beings.

but lets pretend the battle is literal. how can jesus defeat the antichrist or devil? jesus cannot defeat, thats not what he does. if he "beats" the bad guys he becomes the bad guy.

u see the last matrix movie? neo gives up in the last fight against smith. this is the only way the righteous can defeat the wicked. the war will always be waging. the bad guys will never be defeated.

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:

sorry to be blunt but when you die you just rot away end of .no little thing ,energy ,ghost or anything else floats up and flys off to heaven .
but hey you can believe in what you like the same as me ,i just like to believe in science (something you can see and do ) .

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and being even 'blunter' lol. I would have to add that it is just as un-scientific to believe there is nothing to pass on as it is to believe there is something to pass on to another realm of existence. So for me personally and scientifically I can not prove or disprove either, so if there is nothing at the time of death then no worries, but if there is more then ok I'll deal with it as best I can - what ever

The only time is now and the only place is here... when and wherever they might be for each of us
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Preo - You're a smart kid. That long post you were talking about that you asked if anyone even bothered to read. I read it. I enjoyed it and I also noticed that you seemed to actually know your shit. I consider myself somewhat of a science buff. My focus being physics/cosmology. Anywho... Thanks for that post. It was a pleasure to read.

I believe in an existance after life just because I believe human energy is so powerful and real that it continues even after our physical frames are done.

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Jordy, You've raised more questions than you have answered. What the hell is 'human energy' It really just looks like a scientific sounding way of saying SOUL. I'm really confused here. Could you explain a bit more about this?

When one finds truth then what need is there for faith, because faith is something one only needs when one is still searching for truth. So when one finds truth then one has no-doubt, not faith!

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Catgirl - Faith is belief WITHOUT evidence. It is NOT needed or wanted for truth seeking. The scientific method is used for that.

If we believe we are going to heaven then don't forget that our mind at the time of death is the mind we will have to live with in our heaven (or should we call it hell )

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How could anybody possibly know this? This is guess work. As is anything involving the afterlife.

Take a big lump of XTC, a big lump... trust me. I know it will change your perception.

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Wow, you mean to tell me that taking a large amount of a mind altering substance will.... *gasp* change my perception?! Big fucking surprise there. Preo, you'd have to be in a weird state of mind to take 'advice' (If you want to call it that) like that seriously.

What do you all think about the "Left Behind" books?
I mean that is taking it to the limit or atleast that is how I feel.

These people that used to work with me were telling me about them.
Apparently the "rapture" comes and people start disappearing leaving nothing but their clothes.
I mean come on. Do people really believe this?

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Midgrade, Oh yeah! You can't forget the 'Left Behind' video game as well. Where you either KILL or CONVERT unbeliever in the end times. The belief is that Jesus will come back after his 2000 year long journey and he will take all of his followers away. This means one day all Christians simply vanish into thin air. Shortly after this the Christians believe that the antichrist will come to power and take over the world. And then people are killed and tortured for not taking the number of the beast. And then there is hell on earth and God comes back to finish us all off. (He's so loving!)

This seems rediculous, but millions of people believe in this. Rediculous becomes scary.

some of the verses pertaining to the biblical apocalypse were written around 100ad, in a time where christians were being heavily prosecuted by the romans. if u read the descriptions of the beasts that show the coming of the apocalypse, they resemble the political leaders at the time.

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Once again Preo, you are correct. Many historians believe that the stories of the antichrist in the Bible were actually stories about a particular Roman leader that was very cruel to Christians.

Also, I would like to say that as an Atheist, I do not feel that religion is bullshit, or evil, or anything else. I think that religion is a very useful tool. Religions help to build and maintain civilizations. ALL cultures have religion in one form or another. There are no naturally occuring Atheistic cultures that I know of. Religion must play some important role or we wouldn't have it. If it wasn't for that fucking Christianity that pisses me off so much I wouldn't be here today.

4theist20 said:

Also, I would like to say that as an Atheist, I do not feel that religion is bullshit, or evil, or anything else. I think that religion is a very useful tool. Religions help to build and maintain civilizations. ALL cultures have religion in one form or another. There are no naturally occuring Atheistic cultures that I know of. Religion must play some important role or we wouldn't have it. If it wasn't for that fucking Christianity that pisses me off so much I wouldn't be here today.

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No, when you say religion is a very useful to you should say was, past tense. The important role religion USED TO play is that it provided answers to questions. Gave us the reasons why storms broke, eclipses. It helped us to explain the magic we saw in the world.

Atheists see through the fog, always have done. Athesits go as far back as the Athenians... I'd call that a naturally occuring Atheist culture.

I would advise anybody that believed they were bdp, that believed they couldn't feel emotion to take a large dose of XTC. Call me Dr. Skunk if you like.

Epicurus was from Athens and is the first attributed atheist, but to say that they were a naturally occuring atheist culture is wrong. The Greeks and Romans all persecuted atheists, and atheism was a capital crime in the Roman Empire. Atheists have always been shunned and often times still are today.

entropic said:

Epicurus was from Athens and is the first attributed atheist, but to say that they were a naturally occuring atheist culture is wrong. The Greeks and Romans all persecuted atheists, and atheism was a capital crime in the Roman Empire. Atheists have always been shunned and often times still are today.

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No, you misunderstand me... I didn't claim that the greeks were all atheists. WTF?

I said that... ah fuck it... reread my post and try and understand it properly.

atheism is THE only naturally occurring culture. all newborns are atheists, they dont believe in all this shit. religion is what is unnatural. its all just an attempt do understand a world that doesnt obey the rules created by humans.

im just curious, 4theist, have u read into laveyan satanism at all? its not really the nature of a satanist to preach or give advise when its not asked for, so i wont ellaborate too much. but i will say that satanism is the only natural "religion" in existence.

atheism is THE only naturally occurring culture. all newborns are atheists, they dont believe in all this shit. religion is what is unnatural. its all just an attempt do understand a world that doesnt obey the rules created by humans.

im just curious, 4theist, have u read into laveyan satanism at all? its not really the nature of a satanist to preach or give advise when its not asked for, so i wont ellaborate too much. but i will say that satanism is the only natural "religion" in existence.

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Newborns have no culture. They are newly born, how could they? I agree that everyone starts out as an atheist, but that does not mean that religion is not a naturally occuring event. ALL cultures have origin myths. It is a natural progression in the development of civilization.

And no, I'm very ignorant in Laveyan Satanism. I would be interested to learn more, however.

Yes Atheism is the ONLY naturally occurring culture in all time. Every other religion has changed, disappeared or formed. Atheism is constant.

Why?

Because it is the truth... the tryth we all know deep down but are too afraid to admit. Even people that say they believe are often lying, not just to the person they say it to but also to themselves.

I've witnessed this shit first hand, look into a mans eyes and ask him if he believes in a god. Don't listen to the words, watch the eyes... they're even lying to themselves.

skunkushybrid said:

Yes Atheism is the ONLY naturally occurring culture in all time. Every other religion has changed, disappeared or formed. Atheism is constant.

Why?

Because it is the truth... the tryth we all know deep down but are too afraid to admit. Even people that say they believe are often lying, not just to the person they say it to but also to themselves.

I've witnessed this shit first hand, look into a mans eyes and ask him if he believes in a god. Don't listen to the words, watch the eyes... they're even lying to themselves.

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i agree religion is drummed into your head from the very start of school,thats why people are scared to say "they dont believe in god "

Yes Atheism is the ONLY naturally occurring culture in all time.

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Skunk - Find me ONE example of a society that started out atheistic. If you find one you will make me very happy.

Every other religion has changed, disappeared or formed. Atheism is constant.

Why?

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Yes, I agree. Beliefs change. But that is not to say that religion and/or spirituality are not a naturally occuring phenomenon within human culture. Indeed they are.

Because religion is used to explain things we do not yet understand. As we grow in knowledge, our religions must change to encompass new discoveries. Atheism is simply a term we use to describe a person who is without belief in a God.

Even people that say they believe are often lying, not just to the person they say it to but also to themselves.

I've witnessed this shit first hand, look into a mans eyes and ask him if he believes in a god. Don't listen to the words, watch the eyes... they're even lying to themselves.

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I'm sure this is true for many. But not for all. There are people that will gladly die for their religious beliefs. If they're lying to themselves... That's one hell of a powerful lie. I wouldn't expect to see any doubt in an Islamic extreamists eyes. Not to single out that particular faith, however. Many if not all religions have their zealots.

i agree religion is drummed into your head from the very start of school,thats why people are scared to say "they dont believe in god "

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Sativa - Oh, it's drummed into our heads MUCH earlier than school. Religious families indoctrinate their children before they can speak! Before they're winged off their mother's tit! I really think it's more than just a lie to trick themselves. It's all they have known since birth really.

4theist20 said:

Skunk - Find me ONE example of a society that started out atheistic. If you find one you will make me very happy.

I never said that a whole society has ever started this way, but that atheist culture is prevalent throughout history... within all societies within all time. REligions will come and go, atheism is constant. This was the culture to which I was referring.

Yes, I agree. Beliefs change. But that is not to say that religion and/or spirituality are not a naturally occuring phenomenon within human culture. Indeed they are.

I've never disagreed with this, quote whatever I said that gave you this perception... Of course they are, I could not agree with you more.

Because religion is used to explain things we do not yet understand. As we grow in knowledge, our religions must change to encompass new discoveries. Atheism is simply a term we use to describe a person who is without belief in a God.

And?

I'm sure this is true for many. But not for all. There are people that will gladly die for their religious beliefs. If they're lying to themselves... That's one hell of a powerful lie. I wouldn't expect to see any doubt in an Islamic extreamists eyes. Not to single out that particular faith, however. Many if not all religions have their zealots.

I agree, and have said so before on this site. Used it as an argument against christian belief. If you are afraid of death then you truly do not believe in any god or afterlife.

Sativa - Oh, it's drummed into our heads MUCH earlier than school. Religious families indoctrinate their children before they can speak! Before they're winged off their mother's tit! I really think it's more than just a lie to trick themselves. It's all they have known since birth really.

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I've been fortunate, at least in the respect of being brought up (for the most part) by pagan parents. I even used to find some of the shit they did pretty funny... anyway I was brought up to believe that there are no gods. I pretty much knew the conspiracy theory concerning the da vinci code long before it was ever turned into a book.