Bernie Sanders 2020
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
MidwestGorilla219
Well-Known Member
I don't think Biden is corrupt or racist, I'm just worried about his ability to get people out to vote. And yes I'm absolutely worried Bernie could be a bust too. I feel like he has the most enthusiasm but if it becomes evident that he will push away many people in our own party then that will fuck everyone. I'm worried the democratic party is already split.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Imagine if
You understand this whole Russia/red baiting thing you're pushing is rehashed McCarthyism, right? They accused people they disagreed with politically of being socialists/communists/allies to Russia during the Cold War because they couldn't argue against policy, the same as you do today
Pretty sure his record shows he's not as progressive as you seem to believe he is. There's a reason he only attracts older folks and self identified moderates
You understand this whole Russia/red baiting thing you're pushing is rehashed McCarthyism, right? They accused people they disagreed with politically of being socialists/communists/allies to Russia during the Cold War because they couldn't argue against policy, the same as you do today
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
It's really hard to know what is real and what is manufactured right now with the online disinformation and amplification of selective narratives.
Until we can actually understand the reality and agree on what the facts are, it will be hard to bring everyone together. Once we can get to a place where that happens the rest will be easy.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Yeah disinformation is the reason.
If you look through the progress made in America you will see he has been on the right side of history. Unfortunately the Republicans have had the ability to stop legislation outside of all but maybe 6 years in the last 50.
No it is not 'McCarthyism', it is the reality of having a massive amount of data on every voting citizen in our country and a Foreign military with the ability to use complex data analysis to manipulate the 'news' feeds of each and every one of them on a micro targeted level.
The Russian military is dumping millions of dollars on a monthly basis to stir this discord, and that is before you take ito account MBS and the Saudi's trolling for Trump.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Disinformation isn't the reason. Look at all the disinformation out there against Bernie Sanders, he's still able to attract younger voters, people of color, women, etc. The reason Biden only attracts older voters is because they support the moderate policies he espouses and believe someone like Sanders or Warren is "too far left" because, ironically, they've bought the propaganda promoted by both political parties and the corporate interests controlling the narrative.
Whether or not that reality is true is irrelevant to this point; you're abusing it to claim anyone you disagree with is being promoted by Russia, cheapening the validity of the claim. Effectively, you're crying wolf about anything and everything that opposes your beliefs when the reality is it's not Russian propaganda to state the fact that Biden voted in favor of the Iraq war, as one example, and that's a negative mark against his record. There are many more examples in the Biden thread.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Bernie hasn't gotten much thrown at him at all, just look at all the cover aimed to support him by the Trump/Russian trolls. At the same time that he is getting boosted with the same trolls cat fishing the different communities to whip up hate of 'the other' to get him favor.
I am bringing reality to the situation, and try like hell to not use unverified facts and to not attack Bernie. But funny enough the amount of hate/disinformation being tossed at Biden from the "Bernie Supporters" and "Trump Supporters" shows exactly the same level that Clinton got during her Presidential run.
Edit:
Well not exactly, Hillary only had the Republican held House attacking her on the tax payers dime. Trump has the Presidency and the Senate attacking Biden along with the Russians/Chinese Cults/Saudi's and Domestic trolls.
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rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
every Dem candidate needs to say the same thing when and if they retire from the race.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Ah yes, retreating to a safe place and demanding free stuff. Way too early to start demanding boomers or anybody else to get in line.
Tell me, why did Bernie leave out how he will pay for his 30-trillion dollar healthcare bill, free college, and all the other free stuff he is promising? How can you believe he will deliver all that free stuff when he hasn't done a single thing of significance at his current job in 12 plus years? What gives you the right to demand that I stop questioning your leader and "get in line"? Bernie didn't exactly wow the world with his earth shattering win in Iowa or anything remotely like that.
Warren, on the other hand, has very coherent and well thought out plan for how to introduce single payer healthcare. Perhaps you could take a look at it and tell me what's missing? The worst criticism I've heard is the complaint that three years to roll out changes to 25% of the US economy is too long. In it, she details how it will be paid for and how she will cut costs. She had a long record of accomplishment that Bernie can't even come close to. Works well with others. Also, she's actually a Democrat.
Document Viewer : NPR
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
When you use the word "Progressive", what do you mean by that?
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
There's been a lot thrown at him, the problem is, not much of it lands. The last resort of the dishonest actor is that he's not a Democrat, when that criticism actually benefits him because voters like Independents more than they like Democrats
Or many Trump supporters simply oppose political establishments, the same ones that promoted Clinton in 2016 that are now doing the legwork for Biden, and now Buttigieg as it's clear Biden's candidacy is unlikely to prevail. That's the ironic thing about Sanders, while you Biden supporters are trying to win back Obama-Trump voters while disenfranchising and dismissing progressives, Sanders is the candidate with the most crossover appeal to the very same voters your political strategy is targetting.
You attack Sanders and his supporters in nearly every post relevant to him
Worse still, it's fake outrage and fabrications about how he only attracts white voters when his coalition consists mostly of people of color, or only men, when more women have donated to his campaign than any other candidate in the race and the majority of his support comes from women. How anyone who supports him is compromised by Russian propaganda, not because they actually support his policy positions.
Why try to pretend any different when the proof is on the forum?
..and she lost
Why do you believe it's wise to promote someone or vote for someone everybody seems to oppose? Do you think you can change everyone's mind by November?
It's dumb to vote for Biden because he doesn't have the public backing needed to defeat Trump. His nomination will lower voter turnout. When voter turnout is low, Republicans win. The only way for a Democratic candidate to win is by energizing the base and increasing voter turnout. The only candidate people are excited about is Bernie Sanders. This isn't rocket science. Nominate another centrist like Clinton, depress turnout, lose. Nominate a populist progressive like Sanders, increase turnout, win.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
True, people love a shiny new thing, grass is greener and everything. Until they realize that it is just empty promises and they lose the House and Senate to the Republicans leaving nothing to get done.
Trump supporters unfortunately are detached from reality. 91% of them get their 'news' from him directly. And I am sorry but you have no credibility when you talk about what Biden or his supporters are trying to do. You are firmly in the bubble of Bernie and are willing to regurgitate anything they say, regardless of the facts.
His coalition is mostly people of color? I guess whatever you mean by 'coalition' is the spin here, so feel free to explain.
You are a troll for Bernie and are willing to say anything to try to discredit everyone not in your bubble, it is not working man. The only things I have said negative about Bernie is the facts that Russia has actively been supporting him through trolls and disinformation and I am very much not a fan of the 'out to get us' mentality. Nobody with the power to change things cares enough to be out to get them, indifference and ignorance sucks.
Hillary won more than 2 million votes than Trump, it came down to 80k votes spread across a handful of states that Trump was able to pull off a victory. States in which the Russians hammered their propaganda hard and used Bernie supporters as a wedge against Clinton based on many factors, one being her gender.
Trump has enough of a track record now he is forced to run on that he didn't in 2016 to show the country why he is a shit President. Trump brings enough energy that he can take himself out.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Sanders has about a fifty-percent chance to win according to a very dynamic statistical model. He has a fifty percent chance of losing too. At this moment, "Bernie loses" has as good of a chance of happening as "he wins". Yet you go off as if his win is a done deal.
Recall that I was saying about the same thing before the Iowa caucus. I'm not claiming a win or loss for Bernie. I am saying that Bernie's history shows he's not a good leader and hasn't shown the ability to work well with others or accomplish difficult tasks. There are better candidates in that list and I'm pulling for one of them over Bernie for better reasons than you've put forward.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
mueller devoted an entire section of his report into telling us about how Russians were promoting Bernie
And Bernie isn’t exciting higher turnout. Turnout was down in Iowa and Bernie got half the amount of votes as he did last time. He predicted record turnout but his ‘expand the electorate’ strategy failed
Face reality, padaraper
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Face reality, padaraper.
SFnone
Well-Known Member
yes she did, and in large part because of Bernie supporters' egos. This is also why she decided to stay out of it this time, because she knows she can't win and wants trump out more than trying again to get it and possibly giving him another 4 years. But do you really think it won't end the same for Bernie? He won't win against trump, and if/when he doesn't, what will you all-knowing Bernie people say then? will you still be right if trump is in another term and further destroys our democracy? do you care? or is it all about Bernie, and proving that your very juvenile understanding of the world is right? People aren't all for Bernie like you think. People who like him are insane in their affections, and those who don't, will never change their minds- he won't win, and should never have tried a second time. It doesn't have to be Biden, but he probably has the best shot overall. He didn't do great in iowa, but that is not really enough to count him out yet. Even if he isn't the guy, his supporters will not be going to the Bernie camp. Warren is like Bernie in principle, but much more qualified and realistic, as well as actually effective... Anybody can win it, as long as there isn't division. Unfortunately, Bernie and his base is/are the definition of division, making his candidacy a gamble. Is it worth it if trump ends up winning again? In the end I doubt any of this will matter, and it will likely all come down to the Bernie kids' ability to accept another- if you figure it only comes down to two people, the majority of voters from the people who don't make it will move to whoever isn't Bernie, (people don't like him or his abrasive supporters) and he will lose again. Then it's on you.
people are gullible, Pada and the Russians count on it..you can't fix everyone's stupid.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Watch what happens