email468
Well-Known Member
more ad hominem. the last resort of a lost argument.
Christianity has been debunked once and for all
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nickfury510
Well-Known Member
I thought you might!
Will I ever learn not to involve myself in these discussions?!?!
wtf is that supposed to mean.......you got a fuckin problem.....
...heh...just kidding.....its a great book if you are planning on going into bussiness for yourself.....
email468
Well-Known Member
So someone regretting their violence is not moral. Mmm OK - oh that's right you prefer the blood-soaked swords of the conquering Israelites.
The reason i challenge the bible's historical value is BECAUSE I read other ancient literature. You should try it.
I never called shakespeare a fool - WTF are you talking about?
email468
Well-Known Member
i was referring to your other posts - you certainly don't back down from an argument (nor should you).
it is a very instructive book.
The Dude 4552
Well-Known Member
Why is it that religious fundamentalists always feel they are right, but have no reason for thinking so?
I asked you to provide evidence that the bible is 100 times more reliable historically than ANY other document, and that the first printed books were bibles and you responded by telling me to calculate the income of Christian countries and non-Christian countries? What does that have to do with the history of the bible and its reliability as a historical text?
Before I say something, I always check to make sure what I am saying is true. I guess this is what makes debating religion so difficult. I have to bend over backwards to research and gain knowledge on the subjects I wish to debate, and the religious side can just regurgitate the same false information ad nauseum until the debate goes away.
I asked you to provide evidence that the bible is 100 times more reliable historically than ANY other document, and that the first printed books were bibles and you responded by telling me to calculate the income of Christian countries and non-Christian countries? What does that have to do with the history of the bible and its reliability as a historical text?
Before I say something, I always check to make sure what I am saying is true. I guess this is what makes debating religion so difficult. I have to bend over backwards to research and gain knowledge on the subjects I wish to debate, and the religious side can just regurgitate the same false information ad nauseum until the debate goes away.
ZenMaster
Well-Known Member
I've been through this like 10 pages ago. Its true, the Bible is the oldest history book. Watch the History Channel sometime, it has great programs like Decoding the Past or Ancient Mysteries. Point being, they dive into the Bible constantly and professional historians whether believers or skeptics give credit to the Bible being very accurate of its depiction of the past relating to different regions, kings, genealogy and also stories from the Bible. Its a known fact man.
We TaRdED
Well-Known Member
Do you have a link for that?
The bible is as real as:
global warming, 911 being committed by "terrorists", fluoride in the water being good for teeth, and thinking the gov't is working for the people..
RON PAUL REVOLUTION
~PEACE~
kronicsmurf
Well-Known Member
there is no debunking christianity because people can choose what they want to believe
thank God i live in a society where i can have that freedom
thank God i live in a society where i can have that freedom
We TaRdED
Well-Known Member
And I second that. I believe you should be able to believe whatever you want too. If believing in religion makes you happy than keep doing what your doing. Just don't let anyone take advantage of you because of it. My mom used to tell me "Let God take care of it", but God never took care of it. If you lose an arm, can you prey for it to come back? How come people don't prey for world peace more often, to the point where there is world peace?there is no debunking christianity because people can choose what they want to believe
I was a Christian myself before I saw the movie Zeitgeist - The Movie and then I had to face the facts and change my views of the world. It was a very sad time for me, I wish there there was God. I use my logical brain to discern what is real. Religion, IMHO, was set up to control people.
Like I said, if it makes you happy than do it. Just don't let people take advantage of you, and try and hold on to your money so you can afford bread once gas reaches 10 dollars a gallon.
RON PAUL REVOLUTION
~PEACE~
The Dude 4552
Well-Known Member
Alright, once again claims with no evidence.
Therefore, allow me to dig through a vast amount of research to prove to you the bible is not a reliable historical text. If you still dont believe me, get out your trusty bible for some fact checking:
Exodus 16:35 It took the Israelites 40 years to venture from Egypt to Canaan, when such a journey, even at that time, would have taken no more than ten days.
Joshua 8 the Israelites destroy Ai and make it a desolate heap. But Ai was an abandoned city by the time of the Israelites and this story is a myth invented to explain the ruins of an ancient city that the Israelites encountered.
Samuel 18:7-8 In what is surely a biblical exaggeration, we are told that "the servants of David" killed 20,000 soldiers in one day. And that "the wood [forest] devoured more people that day than the sword devoured." It must have been spooky forest to have devoured more than 20,000 soldiers.
Kings 2: 23-24 God sends two bears to rip up 42 little children for making fun of Elisha's bald head.
Chronicles 29:7 King David collects ten thousand drams (or darics) for the construction of the temple in Jerusalem. This is especially interesting since darics were coins named after King Darius I who lived some five hundred years after David.
2 Chronicles 26:19-21 God makes Uzziah a leper for burning incense without a license.
Ecclesiastes 1:5 Although this verse is interpreted figuratively today, it was taken literally by virtually all Christians until the Copernican revolution, and was used by the Church to condemn Galileo for teaching the heliocentric heresy.
Matthew 2:16 Herod kills all boys in and around Bethlehem that are two years old and under. Such a massacre would certainly have been noted by contemporary historians. Yet not even Josephus, who documented Herod's life in detail, mentioned this event.
Matthew 13: 31-32 Jesus is incorrect when he says that the mustard seed is the smallest seed. And since there are no trees in the mustard family, mustard seeds do not grow into "the greatest of all trees." The smallest seeds are found among the tropical, epiphytic orchids.
Matthew 27: 45, 51-53 When Jesus was crucified, there was three hours of complete darkness "over all the land." And when he died, there was a great earthquake with many corpses walking the streets of Jerusalem. It is strange that there is no record of any of these extraordinary events outside of the gospels.
Mark 10:6 Jesus believed that sex and Adam and Eve were created "from the beginning." But the universe is about 13.6 billion years old, the earth 4.6 billion, sex a billion years or so, and humans (depending on how you define "human") for a couple million years.
John 11:28 "These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing." But no such site is known in history. Some translations (ASV, NAB, NIV, RSV, NRSV) rename Bethabara as Bethany, but Bethany is a suburb of Jerusalem and, therefore, not "beyond the Jordan."
Acts 28: 3-8 Paul is bitten by a poisonous snake and yet lives. The "barbarians" who were shipwrecked with him thought he must be a murderer since he was bitten; but then they changed their minds and thought him to be a god since he didn't die. (The snake story is especially interesting since there are no poisonous snakes on Malta, and there is no evidence of their existence in the past.)
Romans 10:18 Paul says that everyone, even in his day, had the gospel preached to them. Even the Native Americans, Asians, Pacific Islanders?
1 Corinthians 15:36 Paul shows his ignorance (and God's) of biology by saying that only dead seeds will germinate. Actually, a seed must be alive to germinate.
Revelation 1:16 Jesus holds seven stars in his hand. Of course, it is possible that this is metaphorical. Perhaps. But it is clear from other verses (such as 6:13, 8:10, 12:4) that John thought of the stars as being small and only a few miles above our heads, perhaps even small enough for Jesus to hold in his hands.
Daniel 1:1 The third year of the reign of Jehoiakim would be 606 BCE, at which time Nebuchadnezzar was not yet king of Babylon. It was 597 BCE that Nebuchadnezzar invaded Jerusalem for the first time (without actually destroying it). By that time Jehohiakim was dead and his son, Jehoiachin, was ruling.
Daniel 5:31 Darius the Median is a fictitious character whom the author perhaps confused with Darius I of Persia, who came to the throne in 521 BCE, 17 years after the fall of Babylon. The author of Daniel incorrectly makes him the successor of Belshazzar instead of Cyrus.
2 Chronicles 13:34 Abijah spoke to 1,200,000 soldiers at one time. (He had a really loud voice.)
Jonah 3:3 "Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city" of three days' journey." That would make it about 60 miles in diameter -- larger than Los Angeles!
Ezra 6:1-2 "In the house of the rolls ... in Babylon" This is the only library building mentioned in the Bible. The author mistakenly thought that Media was a part of Babylon.
1 Chronicles 22:14 According to this verse David's army had 1,100,000 men from Israel and 470,000 men from Judah, Of course, this numbers is ridiculously high for a battle between two tribal armies in 1000 BCE. (The United States had about 1.37 million active duty soldiers in 2001)http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/almanac/almanac/at_a_glance.html
1 Chronicles 21:5 David provides Solomon with a fantastically large amount of gold and silver with which to build the temple: 100,000 talents of gold and 1,000,000 talents of silver. Since a talent was about 60 pounds, this would be about 3,000 tons of gold and 30,000 tons of silver.
Genesis 2:19 God fashions a woman out of one of Adam's ribs.
Because of this story, it was commonly believed (and sometimes it is still said today) that males have one less rib than females. When Vesalius showed in 1543 that the number of ribs was the same in males and females, it created a storm of controversy.
Genesis 5:25 When Lamech was born, nine generations were alive at once. Adam, Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, and Lamech were all alive at the time of Lamech's birth. Adam lived to see his great-great-great-great-great-great-grandson.
Acts 5 Luke writes of the Pharisee Gamaliel's speech (vv. 34-39). This speech would have taken place around AD 35-40, yet it refers to Theudas' revolt of AD 46-47 as a past event. Furthermore, Gamaliel is made to say that "Judas the Galilean" raised a revolt which followed that of Theudas - but Judas' revolt was in AD 6 or 7! We know these dates from Josephus, most notably, as well as from other records.
Hosea 5:13 the Assyrian King at that time was named Jareb. There was never an Assyrian king by that name, and the name of the king who did rule at that time was Tiglath-Pileser the third.
Daniel 5:30-31 says that Darius the Median took over the Babylon empire, but it was Cyrus of Persia who overthrew the Babylonian Empire. While there is a Darius the first in history, there is no mention of a Darius of Median anywhere.
...shall I go on?
Therefore, allow me to dig through a vast amount of research to prove to you the bible is not a reliable historical text. If you still dont believe me, get out your trusty bible for some fact checking:
Exodus 16:35 It took the Israelites 40 years to venture from Egypt to Canaan, when such a journey, even at that time, would have taken no more than ten days.
Joshua 8 the Israelites destroy Ai and make it a desolate heap. But Ai was an abandoned city by the time of the Israelites and this story is a myth invented to explain the ruins of an ancient city that the Israelites encountered.
Samuel 18:7-8 In what is surely a biblical exaggeration, we are told that "the servants of David" killed 20,000 soldiers in one day. And that "the wood [forest] devoured more people that day than the sword devoured." It must have been spooky forest to have devoured more than 20,000 soldiers.
Kings 2: 23-24 God sends two bears to rip up 42 little children for making fun of Elisha's bald head.
Chronicles 29:7 King David collects ten thousand drams (or darics) for the construction of the temple in Jerusalem. This is especially interesting since darics were coins named after King Darius I who lived some five hundred years after David.
2 Chronicles 26:19-21 God makes Uzziah a leper for burning incense without a license.
Ecclesiastes 1:5 Although this verse is interpreted figuratively today, it was taken literally by virtually all Christians until the Copernican revolution, and was used by the Church to condemn Galileo for teaching the heliocentric heresy.
Matthew 2:16 Herod kills all boys in and around Bethlehem that are two years old and under. Such a massacre would certainly have been noted by contemporary historians. Yet not even Josephus, who documented Herod's life in detail, mentioned this event.
Matthew 13: 31-32 Jesus is incorrect when he says that the mustard seed is the smallest seed. And since there are no trees in the mustard family, mustard seeds do not grow into "the greatest of all trees." The smallest seeds are found among the tropical, epiphytic orchids.
Matthew 27: 45, 51-53 When Jesus was crucified, there was three hours of complete darkness "over all the land." And when he died, there was a great earthquake with many corpses walking the streets of Jerusalem. It is strange that there is no record of any of these extraordinary events outside of the gospels.
Mark 10:6 Jesus believed that sex and Adam and Eve were created "from the beginning." But the universe is about 13.6 billion years old, the earth 4.6 billion, sex a billion years or so, and humans (depending on how you define "human") for a couple million years.
John 11:28 "These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing." But no such site is known in history. Some translations (ASV, NAB, NIV, RSV, NRSV) rename Bethabara as Bethany, but Bethany is a suburb of Jerusalem and, therefore, not "beyond the Jordan."
Acts 28: 3-8 Paul is bitten by a poisonous snake and yet lives. The "barbarians" who were shipwrecked with him thought he must be a murderer since he was bitten; but then they changed their minds and thought him to be a god since he didn't die. (The snake story is especially interesting since there are no poisonous snakes on Malta, and there is no evidence of their existence in the past.)
Romans 10:18 Paul says that everyone, even in his day, had the gospel preached to them. Even the Native Americans, Asians, Pacific Islanders?
1 Corinthians 15:36 Paul shows his ignorance (and God's) of biology by saying that only dead seeds will germinate. Actually, a seed must be alive to germinate.
Revelation 1:16 Jesus holds seven stars in his hand. Of course, it is possible that this is metaphorical. Perhaps. But it is clear from other verses (such as 6:13, 8:10, 12:4) that John thought of the stars as being small and only a few miles above our heads, perhaps even small enough for Jesus to hold in his hands.
Daniel 1:1 The third year of the reign of Jehoiakim would be 606 BCE, at which time Nebuchadnezzar was not yet king of Babylon. It was 597 BCE that Nebuchadnezzar invaded Jerusalem for the first time (without actually destroying it). By that time Jehohiakim was dead and his son, Jehoiachin, was ruling.
Daniel 5:31 Darius the Median is a fictitious character whom the author perhaps confused with Darius I of Persia, who came to the throne in 521 BCE, 17 years after the fall of Babylon. The author of Daniel incorrectly makes him the successor of Belshazzar instead of Cyrus.
2 Chronicles 13:34 Abijah spoke to 1,200,000 soldiers at one time. (He had a really loud voice.)
Jonah 3:3 "Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city" of three days' journey." That would make it about 60 miles in diameter -- larger than Los Angeles!
Ezra 6:1-2 "In the house of the rolls ... in Babylon" This is the only library building mentioned in the Bible. The author mistakenly thought that Media was a part of Babylon.
1 Chronicles 22:14 According to this verse David's army had 1,100,000 men from Israel and 470,000 men from Judah, Of course, this numbers is ridiculously high for a battle between two tribal armies in 1000 BCE. (The United States had about 1.37 million active duty soldiers in 2001)http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/almanac/almanac/at_a_glance.html
1 Chronicles 21:5 David provides Solomon with a fantastically large amount of gold and silver with which to build the temple: 100,000 talents of gold and 1,000,000 talents of silver. Since a talent was about 60 pounds, this would be about 3,000 tons of gold and 30,000 tons of silver.
Genesis 2:19 God fashions a woman out of one of Adam's ribs.
Because of this story, it was commonly believed (and sometimes it is still said today) that males have one less rib than females. When Vesalius showed in 1543 that the number of ribs was the same in males and females, it created a storm of controversy.
Genesis 5:25 When Lamech was born, nine generations were alive at once. Adam, Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, and Lamech were all alive at the time of Lamech's birth. Adam lived to see his great-great-great-great-great-great-grandson.
Acts 5 Luke writes of the Pharisee Gamaliel's speech (vv. 34-39). This speech would have taken place around AD 35-40, yet it refers to Theudas' revolt of AD 46-47 as a past event. Furthermore, Gamaliel is made to say that "Judas the Galilean" raised a revolt which followed that of Theudas - but Judas' revolt was in AD 6 or 7! We know these dates from Josephus, most notably, as well as from other records.
Hosea 5:13 the Assyrian King at that time was named Jareb. There was never an Assyrian king by that name, and the name of the king who did rule at that time was Tiglath-Pileser the third.
Daniel 5:30-31 says that Darius the Median took over the Babylon empire, but it was Cyrus of Persia who overthrew the Babylonian Empire. While there is a Darius the first in history, there is no mention of a Darius of Median anywhere.
...shall I go on?
email468
Well-Known Member
Well Dude - facts and inconsistencies never got in the way of folks believing yet - doubt this will penetrate either - but here's hoping!
The Dude 4552
Well-Known Member
True but I take on a personal responsibility to educate the uneducated, in terms of religious belief. I have met so many agnostics and other fence-sitters that it frustrates me. Ironically enough, I have more respect for devout catholics and other deities than those who cant decide whether to believe or not. At least they believe in what they are saying as much as I believe in what I am saying.
My aim is to take those who are disillusioned by religious indoctrination or who wont take the trouble of investigating the biggest questions plaguing the human race (How did we get here? who or what created the universe?) and present them with a fact-based scientific approach to explaining the creation of the world in which they live.
But, unlike religion, I will never impose my beliefs on those who do not want to hear them. I limit my expression to forums such as these, which promote open, unbiased discussion of religious ideals and when people approach me, asking for advice.
It is unfortunate that Atheism is still an underground phenomenon; but is growing. Hopefully my rationalized, logical approach will help at least one person do some research of there own.
My aim is to take those who are disillusioned by religious indoctrination or who wont take the trouble of investigating the biggest questions plaguing the human race (How did we get here? who or what created the universe?) and present them with a fact-based scientific approach to explaining the creation of the world in which they live.
But, unlike religion, I will never impose my beliefs on those who do not want to hear them. I limit my expression to forums such as these, which promote open, unbiased discussion of religious ideals and when people approach me, asking for advice.
It is unfortunate that Atheism is still an underground phenomenon; but is growing. Hopefully my rationalized, logical approach will help at least one person do some research of there own.
We TaRdED
Well-Known Member
Religion is like the ultimate Santa Clause except you can never tell what is from God until you die. You better watch out, you better not cry, better not pout I'm telling you why....... because if you do than you will not be allowed into the gateway of heaven. Ohh, and pay up the taxes that you owe the church allowing you to get into heaven.
Some people believe God blessed them with a place to live, food, clothes, etc etc, but who is blessing those that don't believe in god with that stuff? Could it be possible that people obtain stuff on their own accord and with the help of friends and family?
I just don't see why Christians can't come together and pray that the world gets better and the price of fuel goes back to 1.50 a gallon. Isn't God capable of miracles? Whats so hard about praying for world peace and easing living for everyone?
RON PAUL REVOLUTION
~PEACE~
Some people believe God blessed them with a place to live, food, clothes, etc etc, but who is blessing those that don't believe in god with that stuff? Could it be possible that people obtain stuff on their own accord and with the help of friends and family?
I just don't see why Christians can't come together and pray that the world gets better and the price of fuel goes back to 1.50 a gallon. Isn't God capable of miracles? Whats so hard about praying for world peace and easing living for everyone?
RON PAUL REVOLUTION
~PEACE~
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nickfury510
Well-Known Member
heres a site full of bible bullshit
A List Of Biblical Contradictions
A List Of Biblical Contradictions
The Dude 4552
Well-Known Member
Apparitions? Thats fairytale phantasmic bullshit. There have been accounts of people seeing the flying spaghetti monster, in fact there is a cult that worships the apparition of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. People are fucking bonkers they see shit in their minds all the time, anecdotal evidence of an intangible object (apparition, as it were) is nonadmissable as fact.
babylonburn
Well-Known Member
just live the life you love and you have nothing to worry about,,,,weak heart will be weak heart....dont stand in the way of the sinner nor sit upon the seat of his control....but live in the light and the law of the lord....as ii would say....back to the outernet hope ii helped all those on the internet
undertheice
Well-Known Member
i once saw the image of timothy leary in the beer stains on a cocktail napkin. i worshiped him for several months until i spied the outline of nancy reagan's face in the varicose veins on the legs of a particularly obese beach-goer and became completely confused, not to mention a bit nauseated. i then found jesus in back of a deserted warehouse. i offered to share my sandwich with him if he revealed to me the meaning of life, but he hit me over the head with a length of pipe and stole both my sandwich and my individual sized bag of fritos. i then awoke to the experience of being urinated on by a neighborhood bum. in my befuddled state i believed him to be an embodiment of vishnu and pleaded with him for some small favor. instead i was beaten once again and lost both my wallet and my vintage mickey mouse wrist watch. bruised, confused, pungent with the excrement of the homeless and completely at a loss as to the time of day, i trudge wearily on - seeking signs and portents and attempting to divine some order in this chaotic universe. i think fondly of those simpler times, of the stains on a paper napkin and the faith that they instilled. am i wiser for my discoveries or merely a fool for having believed at all?
i sure wish i could afford a cheeseburger.
email468
Well-Known Member
don't worry -- you'll be blessed for keeping the faith.
undertheice
Well-Known Member
i fear i am damned to an eternity of "i love lucy" reruns and the lost episodes of "chips". being only human, i have found no solace in myth and legend. i have worshiped at the altar of science and found its priests mean spirited and self-absorbed, i have perused the ancient texts and seen mostly bigotry and elitist posing, i have even attempted to bargain with the beasts of the pit and realized what charlatans and fools their disciples are. there is nothing left to believe in but my own meager perceptions and a healthy number rolled with care, there is naught to look forward to but a well earned rest.
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