First Ever for GardensGrow

The 4" opening is where I removed a light fixture from the top of the closet. There's nothing completely concrete saying I couldn't make it into a 6" hole and then cover it up with a big light fixture when the lease is up...but that requires tools I don't have, as well as, the return of my current fan/filter and purchase of another...

In light of this wonderful information I think I might try the following:

1) Purchase the SS2 (not fond of the wiring location on the Maverick)
2) Use a 4" to 6" to attach my filter into one side of the SS2
3) Use another 6" to 4" to bring back to the fan
4) Exhaust fan to the attic



Then again, as you suggested, the small cfm of the 4" fan just might not do it for me. Also, by the time I receive the SS2 and test temperatures my ability to return the 4" might have passed. I guess I can just assume that I'll need the 6" and return the 4" now...

Hmmmmmm...

Seems like it always costs more than you planned. One thing I read that stuck with me is "proper" ventilation typically costs more than the actual lighting (low wattage grows notwithstanding). In my case that's held true. HID lamps and ballast actually don't cost much. But fans, scrubbers, air cooled hoods, ducting, and the rest add up fast and don't always receive the initial attention needed.

4" vs 6"? The 4" could be fine. Unless it's not. I don't have the experience to say. My philosophy has been: when in doubt, oversize anything that removes heat (and odor) and undersize anything that creates heat. That choice might initially cost more $$ but the flip side is an assurance the plan will actually work. The alternative is a risk. It might cost less time/money to setup using equipment that just gets by. Or it might cost MORE by requiring the purchase of equipment you could have bought on the first go around.

One way to look at it is it's only an extra $66 + shipping to have HTG's 6" fan and filter combo vs. the 4" version. It will cost a tad more in power consumption and WILL be louder (barring steps to quiet it--insulated flex duct goes a long way towards quiet), but those are downsides I would accept. YMMV.


About making a 6" hole: I guess that's a choice only you can make. But if it matters, I made my pair of 6" holes with one of these...



...purchased at the hardware store. It cuts through the paper of the drywall and then you punch out the circle. I scored both sides but I think they work with just scoring one side too (but the risk of a "blowout" probably goes up). I'd suggest taking your time and going slow when punching out the hole or just use a knife to cut all the way through. It produces a "plug" that might be useful to keep for patching the hole later. Alternatively, I bet even a utility knife alone could accomplish the same thing. Techniques For Cutting Opening In Drywall

Just ideas.



In keeping with my "you can't have too much air handling capacity" philosophy, I've got an extra 6" exhaust duct all plumbed up that I'm not even using (yet).




You may notice I'm pushing the 6" choice. Understand that's the way I lean but it doesn't mean that's the way you need to go. Maybe someone else can offer an alternative opinion. I just don't want to push anyone into doing things they don't really need to do just because I don't know what the potential of your 4" fan actually is.

$0.02

rep for all of you thank you for the advice. i don't have any questions. i bid you good day.

HAWK. . . .!!!! why does it say that i cannot give you rep. . .it says i have to spread it around. have i recently rep'd you?

oh really???: yes you did, thanks.



GardensGrow: I dunno. Maybe your 4" fan will be fine. Then I'll you'd need is the SS2 and your set. Easy. I think that thought is why I suggested just getting the hood first and going from there. Maybe check with HTG on how long you can wait before exchanging up to a 6".

The fan > 400w hood > scrubber and typical duct lengths combo is so common it seems there must be someone around here who's either doing it or tried it with a 170cfm 4" fan.

What is rep and how do you give it?

Hawk,

The SS2, and some Mylar, have been purchased! I know it had to be done so I just did it and got it over with.

As for the fan....I think I will try giving HTG a call and seeing what I can work out with them. They seem really nice and if I explain to them my time constraints I have a feeling they'll work with me.

Assuming I do cut out a 6" hole, what do you use to seal and hold your ducting that is going through the opening? I'm thinking some sort of flange that I can tape to the duct and screw the flange edges to the ceiling (that might be really hard to envision; I'll draw it up if need be).

On another positive note: my seed order has been processed and was sent in the mail today! I think the timing will work out perfectly.

Thanks again for the help and rep (I think).

~GG

After reading this FAQ I realized that I have probably been taking "radiant temperatures" instead of strictly "air temperatures".

In light of this article I decided to cover my thermometer with a piece of cardboard and check the results. After an hour in the exact same setup as before, my temps are showing up to be at 80 degrees! Although the actual air temps might take a while longer to rise up than radiant temps. I will run the system overnight and see what I get in the morning; I will post the results.

I think when I get my air cooled hood in, and a few more oscillating fans in there, I should be able to drop my temps to ambient.

Still debating on getting a 6" fan to really help with air flow...anyone know if it's possible to drop below ambient temperatures (the temps outside the closet)?

Thanks for the link. I hadn't seen that. Makes me wonder if my temps are actually lower than I think they are?? As soon as my lights turn on in about 20 minutes I'm gonna check some things and see what I get.

You may have investigated this already but I needed an adapter plug to connect my Lumatek ballast to my SS2. I think there are two kinds of connections.

Here's some temps I just took. First number is temp just outside of the closet. Second number is the probe temp. Third number is the spread. The probe "shield" is a cardboard disk painted white on one side. My humidifier was off for these measurements.

78.2, 84.7 (6.5)


78.4, 81.3 (2.9)


77.9, 81.9 (4)


78.6, 81.7 (3.1)



Temps at the floor are about 1 deg above the outside temp. Temps at the ceiling are about 2 deg above the outside. I did not take any measurements near the walls. I took one set of measurements with the humidifier on (low setting, wicking element is near the end of it's life) and the probe slightly higher than in the third picture with no shield. I got 79.3, 81.7 (2.4) after a few minutes. EDIT: a few minutes later--after I noticed the AC blowing on my shoulder--I'm reading 79, 79.5 (0.5), then seconds later, 78.6, 79.2 (0.6); 78.4, 79.3 (0.9); 78.4, 79.5 (1.1).....you get the gist.

My room temps are usually a degree or two (three when I'm not in there at night) cooler than what I had for these tests.

Update: After running all night I came out with 83 degrees. The cardboard was not painted white (good idea Hawk) so it might have absorbed some radiant heat. Regardless, that's about 3 degrees less than my lowest measurement previous to this.

Hawk,

So when you say "My room temps are usually a degree or two cooler" are you talking about your outside air? I'm having a hard time telling if the cardboard piece worked for you or not. A .8 degree average spread (from your last measurements) is pretty damn good but I'm not sure what you were getting before.

As for the adapter: Does the SS2 come with a socket already installed? If so, does the plug at the input end of the cord look like those adapters? If not, what kind of socket would it take? I was under the impression that sockets were almost a universal design.

Assuming I may need to purchase the adapter, is it available online?

The SS2 does come with a socket and cord installed. The plug on the end of the SS2's cord is the same as the adapter on the right (male, funny looking three prong).



When I mentioned room temps I was talking about the ambient air temps of the room that contains my closet (i.e. the first number from my measurements).

I need to do a little more testing to firm up my results. But for the most part, I think the temp numbers I had previously been using were 1 or 1.5 degrees inflated because of radiant heat. In other words, when I was saying I had a 2.5 degree spread earlier--it's probably more like a 1 deg spread in air temp.

The cardboard shield does seem to distinguish radiant from ambient. As soon as I slip the shield in place I can see the probe temp start dropping. The farther away from the glass, the less effect the shield seems to have.

The thing I'm learning though is it's hard to resolve 1 or 2 degrees. My central AC is constantly turning on and off throughout the day and night. When it kicks on the spread seems to drop and then grows again. And I'm not even sure my AC accounts for all of the variance I've noticed when trying to resolve small spreads. Sometimes I can't explain why I'm see a 0.5 degree spread and then at some other time, using the same measurement location and method, the spread is 3 degrees. I'm sure there are reasons buy they're not always obvious to me.

I'm starting to think you'll be ok--heat wise--with the 4" fan and the SS2. If you're getting 83 deg with no air cooling of the lamp, then even a smidgen of CFM through a sealed hood seems like it'd be enough.

Hawk said:

The cardboard shield does seem to distinguish radiant from ambient. As soon as I slip the shield in place I can see the probe temp start dropping. The farther away from the glass, the less effect the shield seems to have.

Click to expand...

I think this test is the proof in the pudding. It makes complete logical sense to me. Just imagine a hot day outside; the "heat index" may be 100 but the actual recorded temp is only 90 or so.

Hawk are you keeping a grow journal on here? If so you ought to shoot me a link so I can steal some ideas

As for my room temps at 83, you're probably right. I didn't get around to calling HTG but I think I'll call them tomorrow and see if they can make an exception just in case.

Until all my stuff arrives, tomorrow I'm going to create some sort of false floor for my closet so I can staple Mylar down, as well as, keep the heat and moisture off my carpet because carpet can emit some wicked nasty stuff!

Also, since I'm continuing to maul my "good" shelf, I think I'm going to buy some cheap lumber that I can lay across and not worry about.

I'll post pics of the progress by the end of the weekend.

~GG

No grow journal. Maybe next time around. Here's a pic of where I'm at so far though. This is just a few days into 12/12 under the HPS. I veged for about 40 days. LST, 3 gallon pots, TechnaFlora "Starter Kit" nutes. I've had my ups and downs but I'm pleased with my progress.



I've got a neat animated .gif that shows the progression but I can't get RUI to display animated .gifs properly. Sometimes they cycle and sometimes they get stuck on one image.

Here is. Maybe it will work. Try right clicking and "view image" if it's not working. I kinda made it as an afterthought so the pictures could be better.

Hawk, it's sayin' that it's been moved or deleted even when I "view image". Cool idea though. Let me know when you get it working cuz I'm curious now

Went to Lowes today and got a 4'X4' piece of plywood ripped down to size for my floor. I also found the proper material for shelving but it was exactly like the shelving I already had. So I figured I could just beat up on the one I have now and replace it later when it's time to move out.

Pictures aren't much different than before. Cardboard (to be covered in Mylar or white paint) is over the thermometer and the plywood is on the floor (also to be covered in Mylar). Threw in my EarthBox for fun. Fan and filter are up but will change drastically when the new hood comes.

I'm going to buy a bigger oscillating fan with more speed settings so I can really move some air if need be. Lastly, even though the closet is white, I'm not sure if it's a flat white so I'm considering buying some paint and repainting. I'll probably run to Wal-Mart or Lowe's and get a color swatch first.

GardensGrow said:

Hawk, it's sayin' that it's been moved or deleted even when I "view image". Cool idea though. Let me know when you get it working cuz I'm curious now....

Click to expand...

Try this thread: https://www.rollitup.org/support/81657-posting-animated-gif-images.html

It seems to be working there. Actually, I can see it cycling above too so I dunno.

That link worked. Man your plants are nice and bushy; I guess the LST worked pretty well. I'm still debating on what technique I want to use. I'm thinking with all the room I have I can let them get pretty bushy...

How many did you start off with initially? Did you wait until pre-flowers to determine sex or are you going to wait to see what the 12/12 shows?

Well, I had some old bagseed I'd been hanging onto since who knows when. I can't recall how many I tried to germinate at first. I think just one and it sprouted a tap root so I put it in soil. I figured I better germinate a couple more so I went with 4 or 5 seeds. 2 sprouted tap roots. By that time the first had tried to break through the soil but didn't seem to be doing well. While I was waiting for the two new ones to break soil the first one pretty much died. I think I messed with it too much. So I figured I better germ some more. I did maybe 8 or 10. About 6 cracked and sprouted a tap root but I didn't get them into soil (actually, I was using peat pucks by that time) fast enough. Several of their tap roots kinda got stuck in the paper towel I germinated in. I freed them but damaged the tap roots in the process. Only one of those actually broke soil. Eventually I started uncovering the no-shows and found they died and had begun to rot. Tap roots are sensitive! Don't touch them or molest them in any way.

So at that point I had 3 seedlings going--two from the second germ attempt and one from the third germ attempt. They were all a couple days apart in age from breaking soil.

At that time I only had CFL's from the hardware store. I kept going back and forth with whether I wanted to pull the trigger on an HID setup. I ended up ordering even more CFL's (including a couple of big 105 watters) because I thought I'd just try my first grow without HID. But I changed my mind and only ended up using my new CFL's for about a week before I got the HID. I would have saved money had I just gone for the HID from the get-go like you did.

Early CFL setup with the very first not-quite-a-seedling that died.


Second CFL setup with the new CFL's (that I barely used) with the three survivors.



After maybe a week under the new CFL's I got the HID and was then under my 250w MH lamp (Lumatek digital ballast runs MH or HPS lamps). They vegged as seen in the .gif image. Maybe a week before I went 12/12 under the HPS I saw pre-flowers on two plants. Two females. Yay! I would have been satisfied with one.





A few days later I could barely make out pre-flowers on the third. Couldn't tell if it was male or female.


It's now shown itself to be female. 3 for 3. I'll take that, you betcha.

Early on I had trouble with the first soil I was using and trying to figure out pH. My seedlings where showing leaf damage/spotting/edge-curling and I didn't know why.







I changed up my soil and got the pH thingy sorted. Knowing how much to water took some hands-on learning too. As did judging when to transplant to larger pots. Here's one at about day 30 that is overwatered (pretty sure) AND in need of a larger pot. They kinda stalled out. As soon as I transplanted them they perked-up and took off again.




Oh yeah, I split one of their stalks nearly ALL THE WAY THROUGH when LST'ing. I almost called it dead on the spot. But a splint and some time is all it needed to make a full recovery. Kinda hard to see in the pics but that's why one of them is a bit taller with fewer tops. I had to suspend LST'ing on that one while it healed. It's the one on the far left. Not quite the nice even shape of the other two. (I had them out just now for water.)



So much to learn....but I feel like I'm on the right track now.



Speak-up if I'm flooding your thread with pictures and maybe useless info you don't need or want. I won't be offended.

"Oh yeah, I split one of their stalks nearly ALL THE WAY THROUGH when LST'ing"

yeah, i did somethin like this too. and found out how parents must feel when their kid comes running in the house screaming with blood all over their hand. luckily cannabis is TOUGH. my plant barely missed a beat.

Hawk, sounds like the learning curve wasn't too bad for you. Mother nature rewarded your hard work with three beautiful daughters

Don't worry about pics and stuff (actually your last post didn't show pics but I'm running under some proxy's so that could be why). This thread can be like a dual grow journal haha

I have some gardening experience (growing broccoli, parsley, basil, oregano, and dill at the moment) so I'm hoping that I can have a very high success rate with soil. The EarthBox is extremely low maintenance so as long as I get them germinated and turned into strong seedlings I think I'll be okay. I just have to be sure not to make any "Hawk" mistakes

When you said that you "changed up your soil and got the pH sorted" did you end up adding lime or something? Or did you just replace the soil all together?