Global Warming? NO SUCH THING!

fdd2blk said:
this is like the war on drugs and arresting the end user. wouldn't it be easier to cut it off at the source? i will not fall for the hypocrisy of this whole shebang. let me see a MAJOR somebody STOP and then i will. until then i need another 26 gallons of regular please. i have to run across town and back. :) V8's, FUCK YEAH!!!!
Click to expand...

LMFAOO. I've got nothing to say. I just laughed my ass off when I read this..:blsmoke:

:clap:
 
do you think by constantly repeating the mantra "man-made global warming is a fact" that you will convince people. apparently, many do.

I have nothing to gain from denying it. and demonizing those of us who do isn't going to improve your argument.

BTW, how do you know that species are disappearing? If we didn't know they existed, how can know they just went extinct?

My friend, my friend, I am no scientist. Therefore I cannot provide you with a list of dissapearing species. You must of course understand with the destruction of old growth forests, at the rate of an area the size of portugal every year, that some species endemic to those areas must be dissapearing. I realize that some unknown beetle in Brazil doesn't mean squat to you, but what if that creature, or some plant held the cure for some disease and we hadn't the chance to discover it yet? Corporations like mining and lumber are running ripshod over S. America and many other countries without any cleanup in sight. The cancer rates of S. American native people has gone through the roof in certain areas, a disease unknown to them before this last century. To suggest that man has no effect on the climate is in my humble estimation extremely juvenile. One must only look at what makes climate to understand that mans influence on this planet is horrific, and you can't change thy face of the planet and not change the weather, IE global warming-cooling. I certainly will not chastise you for ignorance, as that is what denying mans influence is, but suggest you take a larger view of mans activities and travesties against mother earth before you start name calling and nay saying. How can anything as aggressive as mans greedy destruction of natural resources be anything but influencing the planet. The planet is a living organism and man is killing it. What will it be like when the last tree is gone, the last fish is gone. We need to wake up and quit arguing this dillema and start doing something about it. Calling me names will not solve anything. Claiming man has no influence on the planets health is like saying the chainsaw has no influence on the dissapearing forests. Peace.
 
Hello - i posted this on one of the other global warming threads and continue to stand by it...

Wow I want in! can i be part of this thread. I have a lot of questions regarding climate change and no answers so i should fit right in!

My biases, like most humans, are to deny responsibility and blame other things or other people. So naturally my knee-jerk reaction to man-made Global Climate Change is to deny it, minimize it or pretend it doesn't exist.

Global Climate Change, I would argue is indisputably real. The Earth goes through as yet unpredictable, global climate changes. It has been doing so for billions of years and will do so for billions to come whether we naked apes are around to see it or not.

I have seen it argued that humans can not change things so large as Earth's climate but this argument is easily refuted by examining the history, use and subsequent banning of CFCs. To refresh your memories, Fluorocarbons were considered a great refrigeration breakthrough but later were found to be eating a hole in our ozone layer. This wasn't a good situation as we are kind of sensitive to UV light (though it may have been awesome for plant life). But we banned their use and decades later, the ozone layer is repairing itself and the hole, while still pretty large, is shrinking. Hooray for us! But it is also proof that humans can have a very large impact, both positive and negative, on our environment in a very short amount of time.

The ongoing debate however is very disturbing. The debate is now more political than scientific. Which to my mind means drawing a line in the sand so whatever political leaders say, their followers agree, regardless of the science. Anytime I see conservative and lib or commie used in a debate, i know science is nowhere to be found.

Speaking of science, as far as I can tell, all research done to support man-made global warming is based on models. Models are invaluable in supporting hypothesis and we need modeling technology in order to make predictions based on different variables. The problem with models is they are all flawed in one way or another. Either they are incomplete, plugging in the wrong variables, or some combination but suffice it to say, models are not enough to evidence to completely support a theory. In order to support a theory, the model's predictions must coincide with observable evidence. This is the point where the rubber hits the road.

There is some observable evidence that the models are close, while other observations counter the models. What does this mean? It means we do not have enough data to accurately determine whether global climate change is a threat, is man-made, is even happening in any kind of systematic and predictable way. Another words, there is not enough observable evidence to support the argument either way. We simply do not have enough data to confirm our hypothesis.

And sorry - but that is how science works - you have to be willing to live with uncertainty. Unfortunately, the emotions on both sides of the debate is obfuscating other, and to my mind more important issues that coincide with climate change proponents.

If the folks who support man-made global warming are correct, and there is evidence to support this view, then one of the most helpful things we could do is find alternative clean energy sources. Finding alternative clean and renewable energy sources seems like a worthy and noble pursuit regardless of the climate change argument.

If the folks who say man-made global warming is incorrect, and there is evidence to support this view as well, then finding clean renewable energy sources is still a good idea.

What I am trying to say is we should find common ground and attempt to resolve the very real problems facing us and not worry about who is right and who is wrong. I understand there are some compromises to be made. In my example above, the folks who are "for" global warming would need to cool their jets and not attempt to punish folks for not being "green" enough. And conversely, the folks who say global warming is BS would have to admit that maybe burning fossil fuels isn't the most cost-effective and efficient way of creating energy and money should be spent on finding alternative sources.

The benefits of this kind of research would be many-fold. Because the way we address Global Climate change could be the necessary research base for terraforming other worlds. But before we even consider something along those lines, we need to get our own house in order.

So more research and data collection and significantly less bullshit. There is nothing "proven" yet. And along those lines, science does not "prove" negatives. It is up to the person making the claim to offer proof - not the other way around.
 
"Finding alternative clean and renewable energy sources seems like a worthy and noble pursuit regardless of the climate change argument. "

Absolutely..

"And conversely, the folks who say global warming is BS would have to admit that maybe burning fossil fuels isn't the most cost-effective and efficient way of creating energy and money should be spent on finding alternative sources."

Ok.. no one has been debating any of this..

I dunno bout the others- all I've been saying is that this "global warming crisis" is bullshit. Yes, the earth is warming up (well kinda, it goes up and down every year or so..), yes, co2 is going up- and yes we are ripping this earth apart.. there is no doubt in my mind that what we are doing is somehow effecting the climate- however, it's def. no where near the degree the politicians would like you to believe...
 
HotNSexyMILF said:
"Finding alternative clean and renewable energy sources seems like a worthy and noble pursuit regardless of the climate change argument. "

Absolutely..

"And conversely, the folks who say global warming is BS would have to admit that maybe burning fossil fuels isn't the most cost-effective and efficient way of creating energy and money should be spent on finding alternative sources."

Ok.. no one has been debating any of this..

I dunno bout the others- all I've been saying is that this "global warming crisis" is bullshit. Yes, the earth is warming up (well kinda, it goes up and down every year or so..), yes, co2 is going up- and yes we are ripping this earth apart.. there is no doubt in my mind that what we are doing is somehow effecting the climate- however, it's def. no where near the degree the politicians would like you to believe...
Click to expand...

Hey H&S - I hear you - i wrote that as a statement of my current understanding and not meant as a counter or response to any particular view or post.
 
"And conversely, the folks who say global warming is BS would have to admit that maybe burning fossil fuels isn't the most cost-effective and efficient way of creating energy and money should be spent on finding alternative sources."

:mrgreen: Not a chance. That's the beauty of oil, coal, & natural gas. They're plentiful, they're renewable, and the energy produced for the amount of material input, fuel, is unquestionably more cost effective and efficient than any alternate fuel source. Clean technology is the answer, not a diversion to less efficient, more costly fuels which will only prove to have different negative ramifications as far as pollution, depletion, etc. The cleanliness of our environment relies solely on our ability, and our desire, to do the cleaning. Americans, because of their prosperity, can achieve any level of cleanliness they desire; it's called a free market. We, as consumers, have the unique opportunity to support businesses that reflect our sentiments. This, in turn, furthers that businesses desire to further reflect their customers sentiments, due to the influx of support, i.e. dollars.

PS- "maybe" your right though.....
 
ccodiane said:
"And conversely, the folks who say global warming is BS would have to admit that maybe burning fossil fuels isn't the most cost-effective and efficient way of creating energy and money should be spent on finding alternative sources."

:mrgreen: Not a chance. That's the beauty of oil, coal, & natural gas. They're plentiful, they're renewable, and the energy produced for the amount of material input, fuel, is unquestionably more cost effective and efficient than any alternate fuel source. Clean technology is the answer, not a diversion to less efficient, more costly fuels which will only prove to have different negative ramifications as far as pollution, depletion, etc. The cleanliness of our environment relies solely on our ability, and our desire, to do the cleaning. Americans, because of their prosperity, can achieve any level of cleanliness they desire; it's called a free market. We, as consumers, have the unique opportunity to support businesses that reflect our sentiments. This, in turn, furthers that businesses desire to further reflect their customers sentiments, due to the influx of support, i.e. dollars.

PS- "maybe" your right though.....
Click to expand...

So far "we" have demanded cheaper prices and damn the consequences as far as I can tell. Any ideas on how to change that? Or is my statement inaccurate?

I honestly don't know how "right" I am. I haven't spent a lot of time studying and researching the topic short of summaries.
 
email468 said:
So far "we" have demanded cheaper prices and damn the consequences as far as I can tell. Any ideas on how to change that? Or is my statement inaccurate?
Click to expand...


Nope, your about right. Although "we" might say "damn the consequences", to some degree, "we" also demand a clean environment. Wouldn't you agree? I have yet to hear a poster say, "fuck the environment", outright. It is a balancing act, freedom versus cleanliness. I've gone over this before, and should find the post, but that could take even longer.:mrgreen: At what price would you want the purest air imaginable? Would you forsake long distance travel? Would you allow limitations on travel, 10 miles a day max, if your not walking or biking? Everybody has to take the bus, no more private cars allowed? Would you let the government tell you that you aren't allowed to smoke in parks, or bars? Or would you be happy with a slight amount of pollution, and have freedom to chose what level of pollution you are comfortable with, and what freedoms you don't want to relinquish?

As far as lowering the cost, that's easy. The government should lower their taxes on energy products. It's funny that this is never offered as a possible solution. After the cost of the crude oil, taxes are the second highest contributor to the prices you pay at the pump.
 
ccodiane said:
Nope, your about right. Although "we" might say "damn the consequences", to some degree, "we" also demand a clean environment. Wouldn't you agree? I have yet to hear a poster say, "fuck the environment", outright. It is a balancing act, freedom versus cleanliness. I've gone over this before, and should find the post, but that could take even longer.:mrgreen: At what price would you want the purest air imaginable? Would you forsake long distance travel? Would you allow limitations on travel, 10 miles a day max, if your not walking or biking? Everybody has to take the bus, no more private cars allowed? Would you let the government tell you that you aren't allowed to smoke in parks, or bars? Or would you be happy with a slight amount of pollution, and have freedom to chose what level of pollution you are comfortable with, and what freedoms you don't want to relinquish?

As far as lowering the cost, that's easy. The government should lower their taxes on energy products. It's funny that this is never offered as a possible solution. After the cost of the crude oil, taxes are the second highest contributor to the prices you pay at the pump.
Click to expand...

Small, simple, positive steps seem a great course of action to me.
 
I will die of old age or get shot or somthing stupid.....Point people got more things to worry about then what the world is doing..Its gonna do it reguardless its what it does...Ice age? Cool I got matches...Global Warming? I got an ice maker...Owned by technolegy fuck shit you cant do anything about..

If you feel mowing your lawn with some sissors will save the world then do it..Just dont blame me when you die and what you did was make your life more then it was thinking about shit you cant change....Imma go eat some deer jerky now this should get good.bongsmilie
 
medicineman said:
My friend, my friend, I am no scientist. Therefore I cannot provide you with a list of dissapearing species. You must of course understand with the destruction of old growth forests, at the rate of an area the size of portugal every year, that some species endemic to those areas must be dissapearing. I realize that some unknown beetle in Brazil doesn't mean squat to you, but what if that creature, or some plant held the cure for some disease and we hadn't the chance to discover it yet? Corporations like mining and lumber are running ripshod over S. America and many other countries without any cleanup in sight. The cancer rates of S. American native people has gone through the roof in certain areas, a disease unknown to them before this last century. To suggest that man has no effect on the climate is in my humble estimation extremely juvenile. One must only look at what makes climate to understand that mans influence on this planet is horrific, and you can't change thy face of the planet and not change the weather, IE global warming-cooling. I certainly will not chastise you for ignorance, as that is what denying mans influence is, but suggest you take a larger view of mans activities and travesties against mother earth before you start name calling and nay saying. How can anything as aggressive as mans greedy destruction of natural resources be anything but influencing the planet. The planet is a living organism and man is killing it. What will it be like when the last tree is gone, the last fish is gone. We need to wake up and quit arguing this dillema and start doing something about it. Calling me names will not solve anything. Claiming man has no influence on the planets health is like saying the chainsaw has no influence on the dissapearing forests. Peace.
Click to expand...

when did i call you a name? not once.

med: i am just as heart broken over the loss of species & habitats for them the world over. but that and climate change are two different issues. i realize the media has a hard time distinquishing between the two but many of us know better.

polution and destruction of the natural world must be stopped because its the responsible thing to do. both for us and the other species on this planet.

but yes, i honestly doubt man has the capability to influence the weather or climate on this planet. do you have any idea how enormous this planet is?
 
In europe animals are changing there homes for warmer cooler/warmer climates up in the north of scotland fish and birds have moved to greenland and animals thats used to warmer climates are taking home in places normaly to cold for them even in the west coast of ireland theres dolfins thats traveled the alantic ocean which is normaly 2 cold for tropical fish
 
SHOOT2KILL66 said:
In europe animals are changing there homes for warmer cooler/warmer climates up in the north of scotland fish and birds have moved to greenland and animals thats used to warmer climates are taking home in places normaly to cold for them even in the west coast of ireland theres dolfins thats traveled the alantic ocean which is normaly 2 cold for tropical fish
Click to expand...

...and..? We've all admitted the global temperature trend has been going up on average, it's the reason why that we don't agree on..
 
boooky said:
If you feel mowing your lawn with some sissors will save the world then do it..Just dont blame me when you die and what you did was make your life more then it was thinking about shit you cant change....
Click to expand...

We have natural lawn mowers.. they are called animals.. and not only do they graze for ya, their waste gives back to the land, making it more fertile than it was originally... I don't know any other lawn mower that does that...:mrgreen:

"An unexamined life is not worth living." Socrates..
 
Human Abuse And Neglect Is Reason

Exemple If We Treated The Plants We Grow The Same Way As We Did To The Earth They Wouldent Last 2 Long Even Smoking Round Them . Now Think About The Toxic Gases Being Pumped Burried Into The Earth Air And Core

What Parts Of Chinas Like Now Looks Like The Start Of Things To Come
 
dude, i find it very hard to follow people who never use puntuation marks. please type proper english.

but besides that, you're talking about polution. we're talking about global climate change. these are actually two different subjects.
 
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