How do I get to heaven? Answers to your questions on eternal life.

Please forgive me for not responding earlier, I've had a horrible "migraine" ALL day. I'd like to respond to your first paragraph now, then I will respond to your later comments.

"Study means to read and decipher as much truth and wisdom as possible from the subject matter.
To meditate upon.
Like squeezing lemonade from lemons.
I also wonder about the miracles,
but I also understand that miracles are miracles because they can't be explained by physical laws.
The power of God is endless and non-tangible.
The arc question is great,
I'm thinking God created animals on different continents,
Kind of like how the bible says that Adam and Eve were
the first man and woman, but then when Cain kills abel
Cain goes to other humans.
Either Adam and Eve were the first Hebrew Individuals.. Or while they were alive God was busy creating others."

I do not know if I can write this and it not come across as arrogant or condescending, that is certainly not my intention. Please keep that in mind while reading.

First, reread your statements. You probably do not realize it, but you are doing exactly what I was talking about. You are getting into apologetics and in doing so, you are ignoring certain biblical statements and adding your own; you are not just interpreting. Allow me to illustrate:

The Bible says in Genesis 6:17 “Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish”. (I am using the New American Standard Version because it is a very literal translation and considered quite liberal by some. Another fact that I find very interesting, nowhere that I can found in the Qur’an does it say that the flood was worldwide. Also, everything includes plants which help us breathe.) This verse is very specific and explicit about destroying EVERYTHING, so it is irrelevant if God created animals on different continents as they would have all been destroyed and would necessarily be rehabitated, not sure if that is the correct word. If they did not have to be brought back to their appropriate continents, then either the Bible is incorrect (was not worldwide flood) or God did not do what he set out to do (kill everything)… I cannot think of any other possibilities. Another thing one must consider if you believe the animals were created on different continents and brought together for 40 at least 40 days is that fact that many of the animals would have a hard time surviving in the middle eastern climate, this would allow for the spread of pathogens to which many organisms had no natural immunity.

My best friend is a pastor and a very good one at that and his response to my question was “Well, [NietzscheKeen], have you ever heard of Pangaea?” He thought continental drift was an adequate explanation, but this would mean the continents drifted the distances they have today in only a few thousand years. I have a relative that actually studies continental drift and is Christian and very intellectually honest and he makes no claims of a new earth or continents drifting at a different speed than purported by mainstream science.

I got a little off track there. My point was supposed to be that you are not allowed to come up with your own answers; you have to go with what the Bible says. Here is my observation. In childhood/Sunday school, the purpose is to reinforce the Bible stories into the child’s mind as true, true, true. Once is it in there and the individual gets older, then the apologetics naturally begins in an effort to reconcile the things that do not make sense. Pay attention the next time you are in church or are reading your Bible, see how many times you do this. You will really have to pay attention, because it is hard to catch, especially if one has been doing it for a while. Above, I have put into bold the statements onto which you have put your own meaning/interpretation using no reference to any other scripture. The Bible says Adam and Eve were the first people and no others were mentioned as being created (although there were other verses that hint that this wasn’t accurate; Word Faith Movement figureheads Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn teach that there WERE indeed people here BEFORE Adam and Eve, but that they were destroyed. They point to some obscure verse in Isaiah, which I cannot recall at this time.)

I will give a bit of one of my old sermons as a prelude to my comment on “physical laws”.

Esther 8:8 “Now you write to the Jews as you see fit, in the king’s name, and seal it with the king’s signet ring; for a decree which is written in the name of the king and sealed with the king’s signet ring may not be revoked.”
Daniel 6:8 “Now, O king, establish the injunction and sign the document so that it may not be changed, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which may not be revoked.”
Daniel 6:12 “Then they approached and spoke before the king about the king’s injunction, “Did you not sign an injunction that any man who makes a petition to any god or man besides you, O king, for thirty days, is to be cast into the lions’ den?” The king replied, “The statement is true, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which may not be revoked.”

As mirrored in the scriptures as in science, the laws of physics cannot be changed. Once God puts something into law, he cannot change it. Go ahead and read the chapters in full, do not ever take one verse as proof; they must be used in context. Even if this is not the case, the miracles must be available for physical description i.e. what exactly happened at the molecular level when the water became wine?

Take care to squeeze only lemon juice from lemons, not lemonade as lemonade is made by adding other ingredients to it until it is palatable.

More to come...

"The Holy Spirit is the proof that the promise of Christ is true..
The Holy spirit is the white light that shines out of the whites of the eyes.
Usually one eye is brighter than the other, unless you have been very diligent in your walk with God
And studying His word everyday, for a decent amount of time and being careful not to sin.
You can feel the Holy Spirit in you, I know i said not to base your faith on feelings.
But if we have to start with sensory evidence, then this is where we will start.
If you spend time reading the Holy Bible for while it will charge your spirit and you will be able to tell that inside you there is a part of your spirit that is more cold and Holy than the other spiritual matter inside your being.
It will correspond with whiteness in the eyes,
The side where the Spirit of God is the strongest will shine more brightly out of the white(s) of your eye(s).
Notice how the eye on your right, her left eye is more blue and white in the white part of her eye?
That is the Holy Ghost."

This is just non-sense, I'm sorry. Where are you getting that our eyes shine?
"The Holy Spirit is the proof that the promise of Christ is true." What is proof of the Holy Spirit? The fact that this persons eyes aren't exactly the same? I have a friend that literally has one brown eye and one blue eye. There are several medical conditions such as jaundice in addition to eyes just being different. No human is perfectly symmetrical. I wonder if this person in the photo "found Jesus" would this "correct" or change her eyes? Is this the best evidence you have for the holy spirit? Surely it isn't.

This is a touchy subject, but i feel compelled to talk about it.
The Old Testament.
To keep God's people uncorrupted and uninfluenced over a long period of time it was necessary to purge Israel of all of the former inhabitants.
You must remember that while God is kind, He is also very severe. i.e. Hell

Romans 11:22
New Living Translation (NLT)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed, but kind to you if you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off.

When it comes to morality, you must remember that we are talking about God.
Who can judge Him?
He is all knowing, therefore regardless of his actions we know they are perfect.
We are ants in His ant farm,
And i suppose if He wants to do as He pleases with us, Who are we to argue.
The LORD gives, the LORD takes away.
Also sometimes sorrow and pain is good because it leads us away from sin
2 Corinthians 7:8-10

[SUP]8 [/SUP]I am not sorry that I sent that severe letter to you, though I was sorry at first, for I know it was painful to you for a little while. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Now I am glad I sent it, not because it hurt you, but because the pain caused you to repent and change your ways. It was the kind of sorrow God wants his people to have, so you were not harmed by us in any way. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. There’s no regret for that kind of sorrow. But worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual death.

My response to this will take a while, so I am going to skip it for now, but check back later ok?

Where are you getting this data about a large percentage of people entering seminary become atheists?
I find this to be non-logical and unrealistic.


I'm getting this data from personal experience. In fact, if you find an honest preacher or better yet, email an instructor at any seminary and ask them; I'm sure they will say the same thing. In addition, Daniel Dennett did research and a survey on atheist pastors and people that became atheist when they entered seminary. Believe me, several of my friends went through seminary and while they themselves did not come out atheist, or at least do not admit it, they also admit that many people did begin to question their faith while in seminary. It comes from learning the truth about how the Bible was written. I can't get into that and do it justice, but google "Council of Nicaea", watch a documentary about how the Bible was made, watch one about the dead sea scrolls. This will give you some information that you really should have.

If you are getting the same feelings to american pie as you are worship music,
then when you see a Picaso does it give you the same feelings as looking at a Michelangelo painting?
I find this to be very extreme and this makes me question your ability to delineate sensory experiences.
Are you completely serious? Or are you just using an off-hand example?
Or maybe you don't think of God reverently.
Still though.. either way it still sounds off to me. With total respect.

Yes, I do get the same feeling while looking at Picaso as I do Michelangelo, although I've never seen either in real life. I don't really get those feelings with art, though I have and in one instance that I recal, the painting was just a few rectangles and a circle. Just for fun, look up Stendhal syndrome. Lol, well my sensory experience are MY sensory experiences, so I have no way to prove to you that I'm being sincere and not insane. Yes, I'm being completely serious. Have you never had an emotional experience to something that wasn't religious? I have witnessed some "miracles" in my life.. one that was a huge deal to a LOT of people, but I have since then been honest and recognize that I have experienced the same feeling in other mundane areas in my life. To be honest, I am still reverent, but not to any god. I'm more or less a Spinozist now and there is nothing spiritual about that. I guess my statements will have to sound off then because I can't think of anyway to prove them to you since they are personal to me and me alone. I am willing to bet, though this proves nothing, that others have experienced the same emotional response to non-religious experiences as I.

Has anyone ever had an emotional experience while listening to music, looking at an art exhibit or landscape, reading a poem, etc.? Can anyone relate to my comments above?

@ginjawarrior, I often think of the Big Bang as an expanding universe dividing into two similar universes, exactly as a cell does. The DNA of the universe is the laws of Physics.

No, Eye.

...take the Hindu, or most other eastern religions. Their cultures pump out doctors and etc like mad, yet some believe an elephant, or turtle (etc), is holding up the world? K, so if I don't see one holding up their part of the world, then what? Oh, must be deeper meaning

Dig.?

I've also done some study of the Vedas and lived at a Hindu temple for nearly a year. Just because one religion uses metaphors and myth does not mean that they ALL require the same type of interpretation. I don't see Vishnu or Ganesha, but I also don't see Jehovah.

Also
those books have been around for thousands of years.
The Epic of Gilgamesh and the Greek & Roman myths are also older than the Bible, but I'd bet you don't believe in Zeus or Apollo or Enki. You can't judge truth based on how old a book is. Take for example many early medical books. Most of them don't properly explain physiology.

and NO! consciousness is not a building block.

Wow, some of you are taking this into great detail, perhaps more than the subject merits. During a recent surgery I had the opportunity to see what is after life and was surprised to see that it is a gateway. It looks like a stone arch gateway. Some day, probably your last one, you will look back and say, holy crap, some post on an online forum mentioned this and here I am, at a stone arch gateway gaining entry to a huge park-like setting with different colored light. I was sent back to tell you that there is an afterlife and that the thought that we are all souls with bodies is correct. Not kidding.

tyler.durden said:

Hey OG. Take the time to watch this short video, and let me know your thoughts on the views presented here. I think you'll find it interesting...

[video=youtube;8Eam-z1bwrk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Eam-z1bwrk[/video]

Click to expand...

I think that if God wasn't real, and if religion was just a hoax.. This would be a very logical argument. And i think it makes a few really good points. But also it's based on the assumption that religious individuals are being controlling or condescending in the way they are presenting their beliefs. So i suppose in reality the entire video is based on the idea that all religious people are going to be acting like a controlling parent, which i see to be biased.

I have given evidence for my claims and made a logical appeal.
But in the end, you must believe in God.. Which takes faith.
We are made right with God through faith.

I think this is what you guys are stepping over, Christianity is based on faith. Faith is not just a cop-out, it's the requirement.
Therefore you aren't going to find a science experiment that can answer all of your religious questions.

Galatians 3

New Living Translation (NLT)

The Law and Faith in Christ

3 Oh, foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ’s death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of his death on the cross. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ. [SUP]3 [/SUP]How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Have you experienced[SUP][a][/SUP] so much for nothing? Surely it was not in vain, was it?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I ask you again, does God give you the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you because you obey the law? Of course not! It is because you believe the message you heard about Christ.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]In the same way, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]7 [/SUP]The real children of Abraham, then, are those who put their faith in God.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]What’s more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would declare the Gentiles to be righteous because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, “All nations will be blessed through you.”[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]9 [/SUP]So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.”[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]11 [/SUP]So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.”[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]12 [/SUP]This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.”[SUP][f][/SUP]
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”[SUP][g][/SUP] [SUP]14 [/SUP]Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised[SUP][h][/SUP] Holy Spirit through faith.
The Law and God’s Promise

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Dear brothers and sisters,[SUP][i][/SUP] here’s an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or amend an irrevocable agreement, so it is in this case. [SUP]16 [/SUP]God gave the promises to Abraham and his child.[SUP][j][/SUP] And notice that the Scripture doesn’t say “to his children,[SUP][k][/SUP]” as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says “to his child”—and that, of course, means Christ. [SUP]17 [/SUP]This is what I am trying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For if the inheritance could be received by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God’s promise. But God graciously gave it to Abraham as a promise.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator is helpful if more than one party must reach an agreement. But God, who is one, did not use a mediator when he gave his promise to Abraham.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is there a conflict, then, between God’s law and God’s promises?[SUP][l][/SUP] Absolutely not! If the law could give us new life, we could be made right with God by obeying it. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scriptures declare that we are all prisoners of sin, so we receive God’s promise of freedom only by believing in Jesus Christ.
God’s Children through Faith

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For you are all children[SUP][m][/SUP] of God through faith in Christ Jesus. [SUP]27 [/SUP]And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes.[SUP][n][/SUP] [SUP]28 [/SUP]There is no longer Jew or Gentile,[SUP][o][/SUP] slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children[SUP][p][/SUP] of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you.

OldGrowth420 said:

I think that if God wasn't real, and if religion was just a hoax.. This would be a very logical argument. And i think it makes a few really good points. But also it's based on the assumption that religious individuals are being controlling or condescending in the way they are presenting their beliefs. So i suppose in reality the entire video is based on the idea that all religious people are going to be acting like a controlling parent, which i see to be biased.

Click to expand...

That really surprises me, and i feel a certain amount of respect for you that you actually watched that video. That is something not many religious people would do, and i applaud your courage of thinking about ideas contrary to your own. Plus rep for that. I was wondering if you would try just one more video, there are two parts, but you don't have to watch both. Try it, and tell me how you feel about it when you are done, they aren't very long either so it's not like you are going to be sitting around for an hour. Check it out, let me know what you think, you have me impressed... which is not something that happens easily.


[video=youtube;syNVg8V4EQU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syNVg8V4EQU[/video]

Try this one out, it's not long, let me know what you think.

I think the experiments in the end seem to be based on one instance, rather than being based on multiple experiments. People are going to naturally think of their faith when consulting death, over-all this video did not provoke my intellectual processes. I have heard and have seen all of these arguments.. Again it comes down to what you choose to believe. Any amount of evidence can be given to an individual, but in the end.. That person has to choose to accept it.

I really don't mean to be offensive, and you have my respect.
I hope you took the time to watch the videos i posted as well.

I thought evidence and faith, as defined by religion, was mutually exclusive...

Again it comes down to what you choose to believe

And THAT right there is the core different between religious people and many non-religious people; it doesn't matter what we WANT to believe. We don't CHOOSE to believe. We believe what the evidence supports. I wanted to believe in God so badly, but there was so much that pointed me in the opposite direction that I just couldn't go on believing.

@ OG420, Do you choose to accept the evidence of alien abductions?

@Zaehet, 6:07 in the video you shared. That is when my spiritual search for the truth began. Someone asked me why I was Baptist and my only answer was "because that's what my parents are". A broader question is why am I Christian? Well, because I was born in 20th century USA. Neither of which are reasons to believe anything.

I really don't want to talk about alien abductions in this thread.

NietzscheKeen said:

"The Holy Spirit is the proof that the promise of Christ is true..
The Holy spirit is the white light that shines out of the whites of the eyes.
Usually one eye is brighter than the other, unless you have been very diligent in your walk with God
And studying His word everyday, for a decent amount of time and being careful not to sin.
You can feel the Holy Spirit in you, I know i said not to base your faith on feelings.
But if we have to start with sensory evidence, then this is where we will start.
If you spend time reading the Holy Bible for while it will charge your spirit and you will be able to tell that inside you there is a part of your spirit that is more cold and Holy than the other spiritual matter inside your being.
It will correspond with whiteness in the eyes,
The side where the Spirit of God is the strongest will shine more brightly out of the white(s) of your eye(s).
Notice how the eye on your right, her left eye is more blue and white in the white part of her eye?
That is the Holy Ghost."

This is just non-sense, I'm sorry. Where are you getting that our eyes shine?
"The Holy Spirit is the proof that the promise of Christ is true." What is proof of the Holy Spirit? The fact that this persons eyes aren't exactly the same? I have a friend that literally has one brown eye and one blue eye. There are several medical conditions such as jaundice in addition to eyes just being different. No human is perfectly symmetrical. I wonder if this person in the photo "found Jesus" would this "correct" or change her eyes? Is this the best evidence you have for the holy spirit? Surely it isn't.

Click to expand...

I'm talking about the spirit behind the sclera, if you look closely at this pastors eyes you can see in her left sclera (white of the eye) (on your right) The Holy Ghost. View attachment 2501331
Whether you choose to accept it or not is up to you, but i know based on my personal experience that this is the Holy Ghost. I can always tell if people are Christians based on the Spirit behind the whites of their eyes. If they are bright and seem to be "Lit up" than i can assert that they have the holy ghost. What i mean by "Lit up" is shown between the contrast of this pastors left and right eyes. Her left sclera being (Lit up) more white and blue, her right eye being normal. This is not the camera angle or lighting.

Notice how her left eye (The white of the eye on the right side of the picture) seems to draw you in and is more pleasing to the eye.

I find it interesting that you are arguing that there is no God, when there cannot be any evidence to support this belief.. Nor does there seem to be any logical reason to argue this point, or any benefit to believing there is no God. The responses often seem so adamant and emotional. I have a hard time relating to this way of thinking.

Jesus says if someone asks you to go one mile go two.
So i tried watching the second video of "death" that you posted Zaehet
but at 9:13 minutes i had an acute sensation of nausea that seemed to be brought on by the subject matter and i decided to stop.
The cold, drab, and hopeless world of the atheists is an ideology that my spirit cannot bear.



Come to the Light and Warmth of Christ

“If you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” — Romans 10:9

Experience the full life of the children of God.
To be truly alive, with God living within you.

[video=youtube;NZbQBajYnEc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZbQBajYnEc[/video]

The discussion is over if you do not answer this RELEVENT question.

Do you believe in alien abductions?

I've done my best to answer your questions at least answer one more for me. I've asked it three times now.

Also, my world is not dark, drab, and hopeless; It's more beautiful than it ever was. A flower became so much more amazing when I realized what it had to go through for all those millions of years to be what it is today as opposed to just appearing in a puff of smoke. I believe evolution, real evolution not this crap they teach in creationist museums, is much more amazing than something just being created. And the fact that it is explained in much greater detail and answers all of the questions that the Bible couldn't, well that sealed it for me.

NietzscheKeen said:

No, Eye.

...take the Hindu, or most other eastern religions. Their cultures pump out doctors and etc like mad, yet some believe an elephant, or turtle (etc), is holding up the world? K, so if I don't see one holding up their part of the world, then what? Oh, must be deeper meaning

Dig.?

I've also done some study of the Vedas and lived at a Hindu temple for nearly a year. Just because one religion uses metaphors and myth does not mean that they ALL require the same type of interpretation. I don't see Vishnu or Ganesha, but I also don't see Jehovah.

Also
those books have been around for thousands of years.
The Epic of Gilgamesh and the Greek & Roman myths are also older than the Bible, but I'd bet you don't believe in Zeus or Apollo or Enki. You can't judge truth based on how old a book is. Take for example many early medical books. Most of them don't properly explain physiology.

and NO! consciousness is not a building block.

Click to expand...

...I disagree, respectfully of course. Why do you have the impression that I am referencing only the bible? I am aware of how long other texts have been around. In terms of interpretation, I hadn't intended on getting into how many ways a symbol can be translated. (But, I can if you'd like to. It's part of what I do for a living.)

...I don't base a truth on how old a book is; I am aware of how they've shaped our current state of material and immaterial worlds. I'm saying that trinities (etc) abound in scriptures across the board. Nothing new.

re: NO! Well, what else if not matter, energy and consciousness? Consciousness works with the other two in a perfect state, so how does consciousness not build? Without it, no building. <- building can be translated as psyche here, if you'd like to.

ps: I'd be interested in hearing about your stay at a temple. Could you elaborate?

What if your faith at the moment of death was not in christianity?What if it was in Buddha?Even if at one point it was in christianity and you became totaly disenfranchized with it?Still hellbound?