Latest UVA vs UVB cannabinoid test results

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member
No one is dismissing proper diet and exercise benefits, again it's backed by SCIENCE. Stating that people should "eat better" when they can't afford to and have no land is irresponsible misinformation IMO. You think these poor souls don't want nutrient dense and diverse flavors in their diet? Laughable. Golden rice saved millions of children's lives(fact) regardless on your stance, sure free birth control would help too.

It's insulting, I do this for a fucking living. I go to conferences (forced by employer) listen to some of the greatest minds in the biz. You don't think they talk about sustainability? Really!? If the giants don't follow it's all just talk and bs. They mostly agree a quick fix(GMO) is better than no fix to put it in simple terms. Again, time is not on our side!

People going on about shit like these soccer mom facefuck groups calling for round up bans and buying their "organic" goods at whole foods while their husbands spreads 2-4 d granules on their mono cropped lawns ( glypho has a way shorter half life) and doesn't affect the water table. Glypho has been revaluated since 1974 over and over for it's safety at recommended dilution rates(it's off patent anyways), Bayer's decision to remove it residentially was about stopping frivolous litigation. Atrazine, it's chem herbicide alternative will kill me faster(workers) and is worse for soil pollution/runoff. But, but Yay evil Monsanto lost! Cheering on their smartphones/internet while Amazon/ Google/internet(AWS) uses millions of gallons of unrecyclable fresh water a day to cool the servers that could be used to help CA ag.

Give me a fucking break, rant over
I kind of wanted to stay out of this argument which is why I made a simple statement. I don't know how we got to Glypho and Monsanto but I would agree that many of the problems are caused by population pressures. But I don't want to start another argument about eugenics or somesuch, lol! I think we can all just respect each other's opinions and maybe just leave it at that. Learning from nature doesn't mean you reject science.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Yes, we have done testing comparing typical Samsung strips and boards to "true" full PAR spectrum + lights and we've found that added far red speeds up the flowering process and creates bigger leaves whilst UVA definitely increases cannabinoids. We've also found that too much blue light can hurt yields and that increased levels of red – especially with far red – increases yields. We're not the only ones who have made these discoveries. Photomorphogenics have been studied a fair bit.
I'm not sure but maybe he was alluding to the fact that white diodes still grow decent plants and can be more economical. But in my experience spectrum does make a difference. You'd expect me to say that, but as you said, we're not the only ones who have been testing these theories.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
I heard it was difficult in hydro but not impossible? Any tips on trying? All my knowledge of organic was feeding the soil and I thought nutrients for organic would be lacking some things due to them normally being used in a healthy compost mix. But I’m all up for learning
I use coco coir, so it's as easy as growing in soil (I would actually say easier) but (almost) as fast as other hydroponic systems. I'm not sure I would go full organic in an aeroponic system, as misters can be easily blocked by organic matter, but you could certainly use organic nuttients in DWC and recirculating systems that don't use sensitive misters.
 

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure but maybe he was alluding to the fact that white diodes still grow decent plants and can be more economical. But in my experience spectrum does make a difference. You'd expect me to say that, but as you said, we're not the only ones who have been testing these theories.
Haha! At least we are getting back on track now. I don't think we are going to solve the world's problems in this thread but at least we can talk about light.
:D
 

Speedtriplebbc

Well-Known Member
I use coco coir, so it's as easy as growing in soil (I would actually say easier) but (almost) as fast as other hydroponic systems. I'm not sure I would go full organic in an aeroponic system, as misters can be easily blocked by organic matter, but you could certainly use organic nuttients in DWC and recirculating systems that don't use sensitive misters.
Thanks for the advice, I’m currently using nft trays that probably aren’t ideal, but I have my old Wilma big 4 and two dwc buckets. I would think an old pump in the reservoir to keep water moving would help.
 

Speedtriplebbc

Well-Known Member
Haha! At least we are getting back on track now. I don't think we are going to solve the world's problems in this thread but at least we can talk about light.
:D
Correct, white diodes are definitely a great leap forwards compared with HPS, if I was a commercial grower I would happily use the industry standard 3500k with 660nm and wouldn’t watch this thread. But my best quality HPS grows had plasma or CMH with them and one of my first successful led grows were 3000k with CMH. So spectrum is definitely important for quality.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Correct, white diodes are definitely a great leap forwards compared with HPS, if I was a commercial grower I would happily use the industry standard 3500k with 660nm and wouldn’t watch this thread. But my best quality HPS grows had plasma or CMH with them and one of my first successful led grows were 3000k with CMH. So spectrum is definitely important for quality.
Agreed. And that was the reason why we made the High Red boards that @Frank Cannon has on the left side of his grow. He mixes his with UV fluoros but we tried to get HID users to switch over to LEDs by adding the High Reds (which were Nichia 2700K CRI90 and 95 diodes with higher levels of red and far red) to their CMH grows as the CMH already had nice blue and UV peaks. We thought if they got the best of both worlds they would be more inclined to switch over solely to LEDs.

Here is one such grow:
IMG_2294.JPG
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
I kind of wanted to stay out of this argument which is why I made a simple statement. I don't know how we got to Glypho and Monsanto but I would agree that many of the problems are caused by population pressures. But I don't want to start another argument about eugenics or somesuch, lol! I think we can all just respect each other's opinions and maybe just leave it at that. Learning from nature doesn't mean you reject science.
I agree, and I have no real beef with prawn, he's a good guy. We've had some heated debates before! Trust me,Lol. I have boots on the ground and see the damage first hand, it's why I'm so passionate about this for all of our children's future. I wish I could say their was a safer way to "climb out of it"without GMO(no chem) use, I have my doubts knowing the gov agency's policies(lack their of). I'm all for "carbon farming if it's mass adopted obviously.

Nature didn't create this, but I'll shut my mouth. Back to topic.

I found 4000k/660nm as a light recipe to be quite effective in veg/flower and simple for the diyer
 
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MidnightSun72

Well-Known Member
Those products are already out there. But why not just put everytoing on one channel with one driver and save on the expense and complexity (more things to go wrong)?

A la High Lights :bigjoint:
Really I just want the 730 on a separate channel for eod. Would be nice to supplement strip that can be added to X amount of white diode watts. Like 30W strips you can couple with every 150W of white light or something like that.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
I agree, and I have no real beef with prawn, he's a good guy. We've had some heated debates before! Trust me,Lol. I have boots on the ground and see the damage first hand, it's why I'm so passionate about this for all of our children's future. I wish I could say their was a safer way to "climb out it"without GMO(no chem) use, I have my doubts knowing the gov agency's policies(lack their of). I'm all for "carbon farming if it's mass adopted obviously.

Nature didn't create this, but I'll shut my mouth. Back to topic.

I found 4000k/660nm as a light recipe to be quite effective in veg/flower and simple for the diyer
Aw! You're not so bad yourself. :peace:

I can tell you're passionate. And you know I'm not against science. I just feel as if everyone thinks science is going to solve all our problems and that we can continue to do whatever we like to the environment without consequence.

It's a lot quicker to cut down a tree than to grow one. And that's why we all need to think before we tackle nature because science may not always be able to save us from ourselves. But enough said.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Really I just want the 730 on a separate channel for eod. Would be nice to supplement strip that can be added to X amount of white diode watts. Like 30W strips you can couple with every 150W of white light or something like that.
Yes, that makes sense. Cutter and others make far red strips. Buddies are also a good solution. At some point I would like to trial running far red 24 hours to see if it is possible to have a far red 24/0, white light 12/12 cycle. Another experiement I would like to try is running green for 24 hours as I understand green light does not interupt the flowering cycle. There is still so much to learn.
 

Speedtriplebbc

Well-Known Member
Really I just want the 730 on a separate channel for eod. Would be nice to supplement strip that can be added to X amount of white diode watts. Like 30W strips you can couple with every 150W of white light or something like that.
I can agree with this, I actually have a load of decent white diode boards and strips that I need to add wavelengths on to before I get close to my gen1 highlights. Even my old highlight uv boards are kinda taking a backseat and they were once my pride of led grow light builds. If I was to run those, my old 3000k boards or my 4000k F series strips with a couple of add ons, they wouldn’t be far off overall. I actually have a few of the red and far red buddies and been patiently waiting for the pc blue so I can drop the CMH and plasma completely.
 

Speedtriplebbc

Well-Known Member
Yes, that makes sense. Cutter and others make far red strips. Buddies are also a good solution. At some point I would like to trial running far red 24 hours to see if it is possible to have a far red 24/0, white light 12/12 cycle. Another experiement I would like to try is running green for 24 hours as I understand green light does not interupt the flowering cycle. There is still so much to learn.
I’m genuinely excited about these experiments, I always think outside the box and find random stuff sometimes helps more than you’d expect. I’ve had a few setback and been proved wrong too, but it’s part of the fun. I’m still thinking there’s a correlation in bud density and orange/red light like the peaks in 80cri whites and HPS. So if you want another idea for experiments lol.
 

ANC

Well-Known Member
Which white diodes? Most white diodes have almost no light under 440-450nm and over 700nm. But there are some exceptions.
I should maybe have specified, sorry. I was talking about "white" in terms of has blue, green and red, like say 3000K-4000K as commonly seen in grow lights...without anything added. I'm afraid we are seeing a lot of what we did in the days of veg and bloom switches.. with everyone copying a trend with no demonstrable reason.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
I should maybe have specified, sorry. I was talking about "white" in terms of has blue, green and red, like say 3000K-4000K as commonly seen in grow lights...without anything added. I'm afraid we are seeing a lot of what we did in the days of veg and bloom switches.. with everyone copying a trend with no demonstrable reason.
I can tell you from experience that about four years ago I purchased 4x HLG QB324 boards with half Nichia CRI90 and half Nichia CRI80 3000K diodes. These were limited edition boards that HLG discontinued shortly after. What I noticed compared to the 3000K Samsung LM561B strips I was running at the time was that the flowering times were reduced by a few days but the yields were unaffected (and in some cases slightly increased). In other words, I got an effective increase in yield by reducing the flowering times. I noticed this over a number of runs.

I was impressed with these new Nichias and I noted the CRI90 diodes especially had elevated levels of far red. So I went to buy some more QB324s but HLG had sold out. The rest is history: I decided to design my own PCB with Nichia diodes but I also added a little trick I had learned from industrial hemp farmers here in Australia – I added UV diodes (specifically Seoul Semiconductor Sunlike 3030s). And I over-engineered it, because I thought the Quantum Boards of the time were a bit flimsy and the copper circuit left a bit to be desired.

The new design became the original High Light with 450 diodes which was originally intended to be a direct 600W HPS replacement, but I couldn't make a PCB large enough (16" x 16") so I cut it in half and wired two boards together for a 450W "true" full spectrum grow light with 900 diodes that would replace a 600 HPS. Grow Lights Australia was set up a bit later with my partners who believed there was a market for such a board. That's where we are today (I take a back seat to the running of the company, but I'm still very much involved in design and testing).

As for the UV, it all started when a couple of local hemp farmer I knew complained to the government that their crops were reaching high THC levels – exceeding legal thresholds of 0.3% – when grown under Australia's high UV Index sunlight. This was despite the same strains testing under 0.3% in China where the seed stock had originated from. The hemp famers knew all along that UV could raise THC levels and they wanted the government to give them a range to work with so that they did not get caught out sitting on a drug cultivar. So the government raised the threshold from between 0.5% and 1% THC with the stipulation that the seed stock had to test less than 0.5% in the country of origin. So now the hemp farmers had a THC range that took environmental conditions into account.

I had a close look at basic sunlight and noticed that there was much more UVA than UVB, so I wondered if we could get the same results using UVA instead of UVB. Suffice it to say, that's what this thread (and a few others we have started) is all about.

So with due respect, we're not just "copying a trend" – we're setting it. And others are starting to follow. Our lights work and we have the side-by-side tests to prove it.

As for veg and bloom, it might surprise you to learn that we have one light that does both equally as well. There is science (and experience) behind that as well. If you have the right light (spectrum), you don't need separate veg and bloom lights.
 
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