MY True HP Aero Plug&Play Pods

sherriberry said:

so im using 1 inch black rubber hose lines to connect my tubs in my aero dwc hybrid...

anyway...

im debating if i should put some sort of screen on the inside of the tub and try to prevent clogs from occuring within the 2 hoses that connect each tub to the other...

OR if i should just leave it alone for the screen will cause more clogs then no screen at all.

or if you have any other idea, let me know.

ive also considered putting like a VISOR over the port holes...

kind of like your dryer vent has outside your house, but a smaller version of

and that way, as the roots grow down, they get diverted away from the hole.

any ideas welcome...

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id look at what the recirc DWC guys do to get the best ideas on how to handle that situation. im sure they have tried everyway when dealing with that issue. im just guessing cause ive not looked into it but i would think to fine a screen might slow the flow to much.

tree farmer said:

id look at what the recirc DWC guys do to get the best ideas on how to handle that situation. im sure they have tried everyway when dealing with that issue. im just guessing cause ive not looked into it but i would think to fine a screen might slow the flow to much.

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yeah, i agree, i think a screen will slow the flow too much because my flows are... as fast as the pipe will let the water go from tub to tub.


ill experiment around with it a bit... im thinking i might just not guard it at all, and then every now and then, lift the lids, and pull all the roots out of the pipe, and see if that keeps them from clogging it up.



so another question i have... what does rust do to plants if it gets in the res water?

reason i ask, my sump pump im using is starting to rust down around the bottom , most of its all plastic, except for about an inch ring that is exposed metal... that is rusting.

should i spray it with rustolium or something?

or just let it go?

thanks

rust? bad? thanks

sherriberry said:

rust? bad? thanks

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id assume it isnt good but that sounds like a question for fatman.

It will not be taken up by the plants but will tend to coat and clog things. Things wil turm a reddish brown. It is ferrous iron when dissolved in the water, but it is quickly oxodized by aeration and becomes ferric iron whih precipitates. There is also the chance that some of this will be chelated by the chelater added with the iron when the fertilizers was formulated. There is very likely more than enough chelater to supply chelation for all the metals plus more iron.

H2O2 and Chlorine both would cause a rapid oxodation of any dissolved iron from the metal. This maens anytime you add either you should toss a little aquarium power head with a spomge filter on it into the resevoir to remove all the extra ferric iron before it gets a chance to coat surfaces and clog sprayers.

You might try going out and buying a piece of electrical shrink fit tubing larg enough to go completelr around the ring. Rings such as that will usually be just fine if you cut through part of the ring so as to slip on the shrink fit tubing. Then just slip the shrink fit around the ring and over lap the ends and put just a little silicone caulking in the over lap as most will squeeze out when you finally shrink the tubing. Reinstall the ring, then heat it up and let it shrink down tight. Put a healthy dab of silicone caulking in your screw holes and cover the srew haeds with silicone. The silicone uses acid as a catalyst but it is a weak acid so should really do very, very little pH change to a full reservoir of water even when using the pump minutes after applying the small amounts of silicone caulking that you wille using.

first place you lost me was on adding a sponge when adding chlorine... do this regardless of rust being in the tank, etc? every time chlorine is added? what do i put in/on the sponge?

second place you lost me was with the ring...

what would happen if i just sprayed it with some sort of industrial paint or rustolium?

not good?

i dont think there is really a way to put tubing over the part of the pump that im talking about. Perhaps a tape i could wrap around a few times and melt with a hair dryer onto it?

thanks

Maybe you could cover it some kind of epoxy paint/resin.. safe for potable water? It would stabilise the existing rust and also stop any water coming into contact with it.

I'm sorry, I always maintain a low residual level of chlorine and just naturally assume most people use either chlorine or H2O2 as a oxidizing disinfectant at some point in their grows for a preventative medicine against pythium, root rot, abd bacterial blossoms. In doing so the chlorine or H2O2 used would also oxidize the ferrous iron (soluble)and turn it into ferric iron (precitate/solid rust). The sponge is added as a filter sponge. It just has water drawn through it and thefore act as a reusable filter. It is then just taken out and rinsed out and reused as needed. You just put a sponge like this http://www.aquariumguys.com/hydro-ii-sponge.html, over a pump's inlet like this one http://www.aquariumguys.com/maxijet600.html .

I assumed the ring was just a band that was retaining something likely the inlet screen. If that was the case it could be removed and covered. A two part epoxy would work well. There are water safe two part epoxies made for repairing leaking water pipes that would work well. Most two part expoxies are not sold in small containers. There are alos liquid plastics that are sold for dipping tool handles into. They form a softer coating like polyethelene plastic.

The difficuty with the paint would be that it would be didfficult to get a water safe paint that would stick well to a rusted surface. Where as the thicker two part epoxies would cover the metal and overlap onto the plastic on each side of the ring, so in essence incapsulating the metal whether it stuck to it or not. A regular paint would not have the strength to do that.

I know this subject is not pertient to HP aero, but, I think it appropriate for everyone currently on this thread.

Reading on a DWC journal, I noted the PH crept up about 1 everyday with a 6 gal. resevoir and mature plants using 1 gal. of liquid a day.

I thought of 2 reasons. First that the plants were using minerals causing the increase, which didn't make much sense. Then, I postulated that it WASN'T a closed system. They were introducing outside air containing CO2 into the air stone and nute res. The CO2 is retained by to nute solution as carbonic acid in ever increasing amount. So... wouldn't it be better to close the system and use, mostly, the res air space for the air pump supply? I assume it would correct injecting more and more CO2 into the nute supply.

This may show why DWCers replace the nute solution weekly or so. It's not lack of nutes but accumalation of carbonic acid. Any thoughts?

On the ultrasonic transducer atomization front: I haven't had much success with Chinese suppliers. A Korean firm has the right transducers and I'm pondering rolling my own fixture, controller, power supply (yeah, the whole shebang). It's not rocket science. AND, I've learned from this journal that redundancy and power backup are critical features. Thanks.

Lastly, Sherri, yes some studies (unfortunately, I can't cite them) show ~23% more THC production with UVB lighting. Apparently, some cannibols are converted to THC. The paper is in the list I posted previously. In the '70s THC of 4% was intense. Today some strains are producing 20+%.

GrayRoanek said:

I know this subject is not pertient to HP aero, but, I think it appropriate for everyone currently on this thread.

Reading on a DWC journal, I noted the PH crept up about 1 everyday with a 6 gal. resevoir and mature plants using 1 gal. of liquid a day.

I thought of 2 reasons. First that the plants were using minerals causing the increase, which didn't make much sense. Then, I postulated that it WASN'T a closed system. They were introducing outside air containing CO2 into the air stone and nute res. The CO2 is retained by to nute solution as carbonic acid in ever increasing amount. So... wouldn't it be better to close the system and use, mostly, the res air space for the air pump supply? I assume it would correct injecting more and more CO2 into the nute supply.

This may show why DWCers replace the nute solution weekly or so. It's not lack of nutes but accumalation of carbonic acid. Any thoughts?

On the ultrasonic transducer atomization front: I haven't had much success with Chinese suppliers. A Korean firm has the right transducers and I'm pondering rolling my own fixture, controller, power supply (yeah, the whole shebang). It's not rocket science. AND, I've learned from this journal that redundancy and power backup are critical features. Thanks.

Lastly, Sherri, yes some studies (unfortunately, I can't cite them) show ~23% more THC production with UVB lighting. Apparently, some cannibols are converted to THC. The paper is in the list I posted previously. In the '70s THC of 4% was intense. Today some strains are producing 20+%.

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The introduction of ambient air CO2 will not cause Carbonic acid (dissolved CO2) accumulation. One reasons is there is an air water interface that maintains an equilibrium to prevent low DO or high dissolved CO2. Secondly carbonic acid is very short lived so it does not accumulate. Unless the levels of CO2 in the pumped in air or in the room are elevated then the reservoir water, if well aerated, will not have any carbonic acid formation. If youu add an increased PPM of CO2 to the room air where the reservoir is located, then carbonic acid will form and turn to a carbonate and then to a bicarbonate, and yada, yada, yada.

True it is not wise to have a nutrient reservoir in a room where artifically high levels of CO2 are maintained, especially as CO2 is a heavy gas and sinks to the floor where the dissolved level of CO2 in the form of carbonic acid will be a short term issue. It will only be a short term issue because the carbonic acid will quickly become a bicarbonate with a negative charge, which will be short term as calcium or magnesium will combined with the carbonate forming calcium bicarbonate or magnesium or even potassium bicarbonate. So in the end run the pH will not be lowered but raised and important ions will become locked up. IE anyone who uses CO2 should not have reservoirs in the room where they are boosting the CO2.

In a typical situation the carbonate is released by the roots to maintain an ionic balance. This typically means the plant is taking up more nitrate (neg charged ions) than positive ions so it releases carbonate ions that end up rapidly turning to bicarbonate which locks up some of the positive charged ions magnesium, calcium or potassium so the pH goes up.

On he p other hand if your plany ts take up alot of ammonium ion the H+ protons will be released by the plants roots leading to the formation of phosphoric acid (H3PO4) due to the acid tying up of the phosphorus neg ion the ion balance will swing to more excess H+ protons so the pH will go down.

Isn't nutrient water chemistry fun.

so which do you think would be worse...

if i let the metal rust...

or if i coated it with some sort of rustoleum paint.... very thick.

would one of those deisel fuel, fuel tank filter white catch sacks work to filter out the iron?

Or how bout a 20 micron filter?

thanks

sherriberry said:

so which do you think would be worse...

if i let the metal rust...

or if i coated it with some sort of rustoleum paint.... very thick.

would one of those deisel fuel, fuel tank filter white catch sacks work to filter out the iron?

Or how bout a 20 micron filter?

thanks

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I would paint that rust ending type paint and bake out any chemicals in the paint by putting it next to a grow light for a while so it's a bit warm for a few hours. Don't melt stuff... (But I don't actually know what rust would do.) Or plasti dip maybe but get all rust off first, it's been used in grows before don't heat that much at all though.


While I'm here has anyone ever used bio balls as grow media before and figured out how to best water it or which shape may flow water the most evenly from say a top drip dwc. (I'm not at aero yet, playing in my kiddie pools.)

Or perhaps would you want to fill a whole bin with them so they are underwater and trap air all over them, if you were using a mesh mod to create super oxygenated micro bubbles in a dwc system, which also has air stones with a high volume air pump?

Or would it even be beneficial to fill the bins and reduce water flow maybe in areas, not really short on air in the water anymore am I?

I went around the high cost huge needle wheel pump fatman, what do you think of "mesh mod" on 1/4hp normal cheap spa pump? (trying to keep cost down) Or should I go with Iwaki wmd70 or 100 or something? If needed...

Anything else I could ever do better with dwc? Electrolysis to split smaller o2? Positive/negative charge something? Some of this was discussed already somewhere I think, can't find, memory sucks.

Ideal air bubble sizes?

I wouldn't use a rustoleum based paint in a reservoir. Usually rust prevention paints are very high in chromium. Chromium is needed by plants and humans in very, very small quanities. It is toxic at high levels. Not something you want taken up to any large extent by a substance you intend to smoke.


http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/chromium.html

Dude you are fast... I edited my post with more questions at the same time as you were answering.

bio balls are so damn expensive is the only problem.

for the money you spend on those... you can spend half as much, and get some 70 cent sprayers, a 50 psi pump from harborfreight, and some aeration tubing... and some 20 dollar huge rubber maid tubs... and a solenoid valve off ebay for under 70 bucks... and a cap timer for 70 bucks.... and then a relay for the solenoid valve and cap timer... allowing the pump to run all the time, and diver water back to the res when its not spraying the sprayers...

all that being said... you can have a strong system for less money than filling 2 tubs with bio balls.

and it will probably work better. Just my 2 cents logic why i didnt go that route

plasti drip huh?

never heard of it. Sells at lowes?

baking under a light get out the chomium from rustolium or other paints?

thanks both of you

ps, i need a low volume tiny pump that can pump up 30 ft... so like a 10 or 20 psi pump... but not expensive at all... its just to transfer a small flow rate of water... UP

well thanks treefarmer again for posting your journal...you and fatman got me started on this hydro thing. i got my setup running and i swear i could just sit all day and stare at those fuzzy roots.

you are the men.

OregonMeds said:

I would paint that rust ending type paint and bake out any chemicals in the paint by putting it next to a grow light for a while so it's a bit warm for a few hours. Don't melt stuff... (But I don't actually know what rust would do.) Or plasti dip maybe but get all rust off first, it's been used in grows before don't heat that much at all though.


While I'm here has anyone ever used bio balls as grow media before and figured out how to best water it or which shape may flow water the most evenly from say a top drip dwc. (I'm not at aero yet, playing in my kiddie pools.)

Typically what Bio -Balls are used for is aquarium trickle filters. The keep the balls evenly water by having water flow into a tray that has a approx 1" high lip around it. The plate is perforated with holes so that there is an approx 1/8" do iamer hole every 1/2" inches in a grid fashion.


Or perhaps would you want to fill a whole bin with them so they are underwater and trap air all over them, if you were using a mesh mod to create super oxygenated micro bubbles in a dwc system, which also has air stones with a high volume air pump?

Typically they are used instead of hydroton. Some people just fill the larger net baskets with bioballs and start there clone cutting in the basket. Some plant samll rock wool cubes into a baket filled with bio balls. That tends to cause some damping off on some stems though if the rock wool stays to wet.

Or would it even be beneficial to fill the bins and reduce water flow maybe in areas, not really short on air in the water anymore am I?

That would tend to support bacterial growth as it would provide excellent surface areas for bacterial coatings.

I went around the high cost huge needle wheel pump fatman, what do you think of "mesh mod" on 1/4hp normal cheap spa pump? (trying to keep cost down) Or should I go with Iwaki wmd70 or 100 or something? If needed...

Mesh mods are good, but require frequent replacement an/or repair of the mesh. Either way what is most important is actually the venturi valve. The best venturi valves are home made venturi valves. They are simply made out of two peices of acrylic tubing.

Anything else I could ever do better with dwc? Electrolysis to split smaller o2? Positive/negative charge something? Some of this was discussed already somewhere I think, can't find, memory sucks.

Ideal air bubble sizes?

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The issue of DO with DWC is really over blown. The only real concern is one supply for the O2 levels of the plants. That is really not a large need, and secondly supply enough additional DO to assure that the system stays aerobic rather than anerobic (low or zero DO). It is easy to supply that need with just about any aeration method.

What complcates the issue is other sytems where the water actually leaves the reservoir and can actually become totally void of DO in some flow areas ie aero tubes, NTF trays, the nooks and crannies in ebb and flow beds etc. That is what has to be prevented and high DO just nakes it easier. The easiest method by far is to just not to build such a shitty system.

DWC systems where you see hugh pumps and external reservoirs and massive circulation pumpps and such is very gross overkill. In a straight DWC if you keep the DO above about 3 or 4 ppm there is really no advanatage of a higher DO unless you are using organic nutrients or you do not every change nutrient fli uids and therefore have a lot od dead roots decaying in the sytem. Roots are always dieing (especially hair roots).

Now consider that normal water without plants will have a DO of about 8 to 8.5 at normal room temps. One large (1/4 hp) mesh or needle wheel pump with a venturi will easily keep a 150 to 200 sq foot room full of DWC reservoirs at a DO of 8 ppm as long as the water is kept in circulation between all the reservoirs. That is at least twice as high as the DO needs to be so that is quite a large safety factor to make up for the oxygen needs of the aerobic bacteria that develops in the system due to all the the root matter.

sherriberry said:

plasti drip huh?

never heard of it. Sells at lowes?

Plastic Dip not drip. Just tell the person in the tools section you want the plastic dip coating for tool handles. They will know what your talking about. The solvent used in the dip is toulene. It will bake out quickly.

baking under a light get out the chomium from rustolium or other paints?

thanks both of you

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Chromium is a metal, it does not bake out. The baking of paints is to release the solvents in the paint more quickly. Other wise about 85% quickly out gasses but the last 15% is only slowly releases as the paint ages.