MY True HP Aero Plug&Play Pods

Hi Dude Man
I guess it depends on how close you could get the NPK ratio vs effort vs the $$ you save.
If i bought nutes from a growshop (+shipping) it would be worthwhile as a 40gal res would cost well over $9.40. Homebrewing a 40gal res of the same NPK nutes costs $1.15 so a small amount of waste is more tolerable.

Atomizer said:

Hi Dude Man
I guess it depends on how close you could get the NPK ratio vs effort vs the $$ you save.
If i bought nutes from a growshop (+shipping) it would be worthwhile as a 40gal res would cost well over $9.40. Homebrewing a 40gal res of the same NPK nutes costs $1.15 so a small amount of waste is more tolerable.

Click to expand...

Mixing your own fertilizer really is cheap. A typical 100x concentrate contains only one kiloof fertilizer salts (2.2 pounds). Ie that maens if you buy your major nutrients in 50 pound bags and the micro nutrients in small amounts say off of ebay you are only putting $5 into a gallon of fertilizer at 100X. With the dilute nutrients used by HP aero your diluting that about 300X. That means 300 gallons for $5. So about 1.6 cents per gallon.

Even making the most "exotic" AN formula with amino acids and humus your only spending about $25 for a gallon of 100X you will dilute 300X for aero. So 8 cents per gallon.

Hi Fatman,

I found a small article that backs up your explanation to nutrient uptake. Although, you went into much finer detail.

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/facts/uptake.htm

One thing that I found strange is this statement "The rates of water and nutrient uptake are very low at night, but the ratios at which nutrients and water are absorbed (i.e., K:water, N:water) are at their highest." I thought there would be no nutrient uptake as photosynthesis has ceased.

Any thoughts?

While nutrients are always up taken the amount of water taken at might is lower as transpiration is replaced by respiration so muchless water is taken up but what is typically taken up is stored along with the nutrients that come with it. Plants at night do many conersion and storage operations as a result of the prevoi ious photpsytheis and in preparation for the next days photosynthesis. Some would say most things needed for growth are taken in and partially formed during the day and that the plants then grow at night. Over simplification but close enough.

Some research papers keep stating also that green house testing has shown that during the afternoon photosysnthesis processses slow down and that providing more CO2 actually quickly leads to the closing of the stomatas. What they do not address though is that the green houses are closed entirely or very nearalyso meaning the humidity is extremely high around the plants so given the same conditions without the CO2 the stomta would still close. The CO2 just speeds the process. What they also do not sat y is if the hunidity is dropped the stomata reopen and with the additional CO2 present transpiration and photosyntheis continues. Just another case where in door climate controlled grow rooms are much different from green houses. Even searching high and low it is extremely doubtful you will find any commercial green houses with dehumifiers or air conditioners that will lower the humidity. They use fans and opening panels/windows. There are crops are not valuable enough to use dehumifiers or air conditioners.

Do you fellas do anything to ease your cuttings into the colder water temps when you move them from veg to bud or does it not really matter?

clydefrog said:

Do you fellas do anything to ease your cuttings into the colder water temps when you move them from veg to bud or does it not really matter?

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i never do anything just move them. and sometimes my cuts from the cloner go into warmer water than they were in the cloner.(purposely holding cuts back for one reason or another keeping the water and air temps real cool)

ive expermented around some in the pods changing the temp of the input solution which changes the temp inside the pod but havent found any direct comparisions between the pod temps and growth. i never let the pods go over 70 ambient temps inside the chamber. to maintain 69 i have to run the solution temp at around 67 degrees.

Dude Man said:

to be honest the long term run costs of aero must be much lower than other styles,

tree man - any way i can get a N-P-K-Mg on veg and bloom from you?

Atom - if you could get the NPK close enough you could turn the strength down, one would think?

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i use one of fatmans listed ratios 2-1-2,3-1-3, 3-1-2, 3-1-4. any one of these and then adjust from what you see from the runoff numbers and plant health. i try and keep a higher level of nitrogen going into bloom for around 3 weeks then reduce it and see how they react. these sat dom girls seem to love thier nitrogen more than the indicas from last time. mag one third of nitrogen or some where close to that i try and keep it overmisting will give you al kinds of nutrient def looking symptoms especially when they are little.
so what looks like a nutrient defiecincy ends up to really be overmisting.

these nutes are so cheap running hp aero that to me i dont even consider them. when you run in the 100-650ppm range from clone to full flower you dont use much nutes. the Ro water costs more for me than nutes do.

AeroTrek said:

Hi tree farmer,

I just read 6 pages of Fatmans' link you supplied and found it very informative. If I remember correctly the ratio he gave for a comfortable NPK ratio was around where I was when using DWC.

With all this info floating around in my head I had a thought regarding the "to drain method" and it was you that spawned it in one of your earlier posts (I could be wrong but bear with me it's getting late, tired and I have to get to work tomorrow morning).

Assuming you had the perfect nutrient ratio (...ok..close enough to..) for whatever stage of growth your in and you took a ppm reading of eg. 500ppm going in from the reservoir and 200ppm going to drain in a 24hr. period you find that the grow consumed 300ppm's.

Would it be safe to say that you could get away with a reservoir solution of 300ppm or maybe add 10% for 330ppm's and reduce your nute waste further? All of this after you have set your misting cycles to get the fluffy root area.

Just a thought.

Click to expand...

i guess atomizer gave you the short answer and fatman the long one. youll notice he does that.

clydefrog said:

Do you fellas do anything to ease your cuttings into the colder water temps when you move them from veg to bud or does it not really matter?

Click to expand...

I maintain temps of 85 F to 90 F for all plants and clones. But, I also use CO2 for budding and vegging plants and low boosting of clone CO2. I also keep b my humidity at 30 to 35 % maximum. There is no reason to have low water temps with aero as long as you do not have a thick layer of roots laying in low DO water as in small tubes. Any water that is sprayed will not be low DO as long as it is drained quickly before lying roots remove the DO and rtherevby cretae a site for oxygen free bactria to multiply (cholrine kill the bactteria).

I heat if needed to keep the room temps at 80 F at night. As I keep the humidity low the lower temps used by many at night just provide no advantage yet the warmer temps do. I do not chill my nutes but occasionally need to warm them to a minimum of 80 K at night and 85 during the day. I aerate my nutes with a small power head but I do not try to keep the DO at any specific level as long as it is over about 2 ppm. I have neer seen it that low. I do use chlorine at all times so that keeps bacterial levels at negligible levels in all my systems.

I get better nutrient uptake when the nutrient water is just below or at the same temp as the plants.

tree farmer said:

i use one of fatmans listed ratios 2-1-2,3-1-3, 3-1-2, 3-1-4. any one of these and then adjust from what you see from the runoff numbers and plant health.

Click to expand...

I've been watching this thread very closely. It's a great and constructive thread.

Tree Farmer - Do you mix your own nutes from Fatman's recipe or do you use off the shelf nutes? Or, what?

Thanks, YGB

Hi all,

This is my first post and i want make my TAG but have a problem with pressure...

When shout down the remaining pressure in the pipes continue run out for 6-7 seconds.
The nozzles have anti-drip valve set on 25 psi, this can cause the issue?
Anyone have this problem? what to repair this?

Sorry for my english

Paglia said:

Hi all,

This is my first post and i want make my TAG but have a problem with pressure...

When shout down the remaining pressure in the pipes continue run out for 6-7 seconds.
The nozzles have anti-drip valve set on 25 psi, this can cause the issue?
Anyone have this problem? what to repair this?

Sorry for my english

Click to expand...

are you using an accumulator tank?

Fartman - I was reading on pod racers thread that a "Ca:Mg 3:1
NO3:NH4 9:1" needed to be considered when making a formula for HP aero?
How close do i need to be?

I see now i am better off mixing my own and now i found your info i will when i run out of PBP,
all though i wondering if adding some PB original would effect taste when combined with the raw mix?
or if it really matters, I know when i used all canna it gave the bud a sweeter taste, than say the same strain in dirt with miracle grow?

but i am stuck with pbp, and need to read up more on your mixing info...

as always, thanks in advance.

tree farmer said:

are you using an accumulator tank?

Click to expand...

Hi tree farmer, for now i can't buy an accumulator tank but i use a vibration pump, she can run 15 bar immediately (i know this is not TAG but is what I can afford now).

When cut off the remaining pressure continuely run over the nozzles, i think need a relief valve or solenoid normaly open.

When start pump solenoid is closed and when cut off solenoid open and discharge pressure.

What do you think?

Paglia said:

Hi tree farmer, for now i can't buy an accumulator tank but i use a vibration pump, she can run 15 bar immediately (i know this is not TAG but is what I can afford now).

When cut off the remaining pressure continuely run over the nozzles, i think need a relief valve or solenoid normaly open.

When start pump solenoid is closed and when cut off solenoid open and discharge pressure.

What do you think?

Click to expand...

without the accumulator the only thing you could do is add another selonoid to dump the line pressure back to the res as soon as you turn the pump off. this will keep the nozzles from dumping the pressure thru the misters when you turn off the pump but it will not help for the ramping up of the pressure when you start the pump. install the selonoid in the line going to the misters with a tee and a line that runs back to the res. use a relay that closes the selonoid when you apply power to the pump and then when you cut the power to the pump the relay will open the selonoid. so you need a normally open seonoid and a relay.

anyone else having problems accessing thier control panel and pm's. the thing wont let me see my messages. been like this all day. keeps showing database error has been encountered.

tree farmer said:

without the accumulator the only thing you could do is add another selonoid to dump the line pressure back to the res as soon as you turn the pump off. this will keep the nozzles from dumping the pressure thru the misters when you turn off the pump but it will not help for the ramping up of the pressure when you start the pump. install the selonoid in the line going to the misters with a tee and a line that runs back to the res. use a relay that closes the selonoid when you apply power to the pump and then when you cut the power to the pump the relay will open the selonoid. so you need a normally open seonoid and a relay.

Click to expand...

This is what i have in mind, i think to close the solenoid with the same relay of the pump to go in synchrony, i go to search supplies, thank you!

Dude Man said:

Fartman - I was reading on pod racers thread that a "Ca:Mg 3:1
NO3:NH4 9:1" needed to be considered when making a formula for HP aero?
How close do i need to be?

I see now i am better off mixing my own and now i found your info i will when i run out of PBP,
all though i wondering if adding some PB original would effect taste when combined with the raw mix?
or if it really matters, I know when i used all canna it gave the bud a sweeter taste, than say the same strain in dirt with miracle grow?

but i am stuck with pbp, and need to read up more on your mixing info...

as always, thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

Who is Fartman?? I don't know of a Flatulentman in this forum. 3 to 1 is about the acceptable standard for a calcium to magnesium ratio. Even if you raise your calcium and magnesium for budding it is usually at about those same ratios. It is OK though during budding to increase the magnesium and not the calcium. This is done by some to increase the EC and therefore transpiration when they already have a high concentration of Potassium. I usually keep my Aero SOG grow Calcium, Potassium and Total nitrogen pretty much at equal ratios. When calcium is used to raise the EC it usually decreases transpiration and therefore decreases nutrient uptake. Though this will lower humidity during budding and lessen mildew problems, I would rather have the higher transpiration and higher nutrient uptake and just control the humidity instead. Ift is very possible lowering the calcium might actually be more advantageous during budding in aero. This would mean lower the calcium by about 80 ppm and increasing the potassium by 80 to 100 ppm.

The higher calcium, magnesium and iron levels added through using Cal-Mag Plus are needed during budding because with a recirculating reservoir system more are locked out or tied up during budding by carbonate and precipitation so less are available. IE There is not a higher plant demand for these nutrients. This does not happen with a drain to waste system. This decrease of calcium and increase of potassium should increase nutrient uptake and transpiration during budding with drain to waste systems. This lowered calcium would likely lower the nutrient pH in recurculation reservoirs. As HP aero is typically drain to waste the pH change of the waste water is more just a growers way of indicating what nitrogen source is being up taken and otherwise is of no real concern. With drain to waste the drain water pH does not matter in that there is no recirculation reservoir for it to effect. You do need to consider the differences between growing longer veg cycle plants (large plants) or SOG plants. Cutting the SOG plant calcium is not as not likely to be as advantageous as with the long term larger plants. SOG drain to waste aero plant calcium uptake seems to stay pretty consistent through out the grow until dropping in the last 7 to 10 days, where as the calcium uptake after the stretch stage in the larger plants drops quite a lot..

As far as the nitrate to ammonium ratios. I keep it down to less than 7% of the total nitrogen being ammonium. That means about a 1:14 ratio max. More commonly though I formulate aero nutrients at about 5% which is just below a 1 to 19 ratio, IE 1:20. A 1:9 ratio is way to much ammonium nitrogen for an indoor grow especially aero) unless you are growing with low temperatures (50's or low 60's F) and low intensity lighting (fluorescent or CFC).

tree farmer said:

i guess atomizer gave you the short answer and fatman the long one. youll notice he does that.

Click to expand...

Yes...you got that right, but believe it or not I prefer the long answer as it leaves little to assume and you know what they say when you "ASS U ME".

I've been without a grow for over ten years and starting up again with a new method (aero) changes the game some. I prefer to get as much detail as I can before throwing the first seed into the ring (occupational hazard...engineering). If anything it's the challenge of producing the best that I can that gets me going.

When I last grew I used store bought GH, Canna and a few other premixed nutrients but added the micros depending on what stage of growth they where at. I like fatmans approach as it seems to have infinite control of nutrient uptake, as long as the environment is kept stable. This new game (aero) requires control.

I hope you guys don't mind me picking at your brains...

Paglia said:

Hi tree farmer, for now i can't buy an accumulator tank but i use a vibration pump, she can run 15 bar immediately (i know this is not TAG but is what I can afford now).

When cut off the remaining pressure continuely run over the nozzles

Click to expand...

Hi Paglia,
Could you tell us about your layout/hardware. Things like; what type of pipe you are using, how long it is, the number of nozzles, nozzle flow rate in LPH etc.
It wont be easy to fix the issue completely but there may be things you can do to improve the situation.