Proof of the existence of an intelligent Creator and what His purpose of mankind is

PadawanBater said:

It's pretty rare when it happens, it's happened to me like two or three times in my entire life, maybe that's not what Braz is talking about, but I'll share anyway.

When you have the same thoughts those great men before you had without ever having known of them in the first place.

I remember thinking about orbits and revolutions of planets before I knew anything about school, education or science.

I also remember thinking about philosophies similar to Nietzsche before I ever learned anything about him.

Same thing with black holes and Hawking..

Arguably the most profound feeling I've ever experienced...

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Well, I kinda mean in the sense of Both terms, but Yeah, more predominately in the terms of the examples you have given..

smoker toker said:

mmmm I'm not so sure, Black Holes are only created when a massive star collapses, gravity is present then because it's the same concept as a sinking ship, everything around it gets sucked in and drug down with it........ I don't see how gravity could originate from black holes, simply because of the fact that ANYTHING that has mass, has their own gravity... I feather has gravity but it wasn't a black hole which caused it.

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Maybe I Am confused , So, we have Stars in Space that Orbit independently outside of a Galaxiy? I thought all stars were part of a Galaxy System? I had presumed this and thought that everything rotated around the supermassive black hole that exist at the center of the Galaxy?

But with that said, I concluded that the gravity is secondary because it is the effect of the super massive black hole gravity. The rest of the physics remain the same simply because everything has a mass, Theory of Relativity.... You don't have to be in Outer Space, to observe General Relativity,

I think I need to check it over later, I'm confused now.. 9am...,

Sorry, that Post was meant to go through @ 9, guess I was in a Rush..

Anyhow, i Believe I'm right (I think) that all Stars are part of a Galactic System....

and I blieve Black Holes are part of Galaxies

I should also explain with more clarity,

and look over the Theory of Relativity, I think it may be better to explain further on why I feel that Gravity originates @ the Core of the Galaxy, it has the Greatest Mass of All, righT? Think I'm starting to confuse myself, again

leeny said:

who created the intelligent creator? and I'm not trying to be a prick but I'm sure there is some theory on that and would just like to hear it...

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That's a good question. I have a theory on that....it's like....opening one door at a time. Maybe, us, as imperfect beings don't have the ability to understand the complexity of a conciousness so great that could create the creater. We don't even understand fully the creater herself. So perhaps that knowlege may come with diffrent levels of conciousness reached. Or maybe us as individuals represent diffrent aspects of the creators subconcious, thus our interactions with one another represent the creators attempt to understand her purpose and what great being in fact created her, if any at all. And if that's the case, maybe we created the creator and the creator created us....simotanusly. Kind of like a chicken or the egg thing...whose to say what came first.

Gravity is a force inherent in all objects with mass.
A black hole is simply (simply is in understatement ) an object with enough mass that most light does not escape.
Some types of radiation do escape, and while not visible to the human eye, they can be considered light at the extreme end of the wavelength scale.

Black holes are fascinating objects, but they do not impart gravity upon other objects.

Brazko said:

Well, I kinda mean in the sense of Both terms, but Yeah, more predominately in the terms of the examples you have given..



Maybe I Am confused , So, we have Stars in Space that Orbit independently outside of a Galaxiy? I thought all stars were part of a Galaxy System? I had presumed this and thought that everything rotated around the supermassive black hole that exist at the center of the Galaxy?

Anyhow, i Believe I'm right (I think) that all Stars are part of a Galactic System....

and I blieve Black Holes are part of Galaxies

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Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right about stars. All stars are part of a larger galaxy. Though I have heard of stars that get thrown off into deep space via a gravitational interference, which makes perfect sense given we've observed stars orbiting other stars. Stars are also self sustaining, so there's no reason they couldn't survive out in deep space. Come to think of it, there are probably actually quite a bit of these kinds of stars. Speeds range into the millions of miles per hour going through space.

Black holes are stars I believe 3 times larger than our sun that run through their life cycle, use all the hydrogen and helium then expand the outer layers and the core contracts into a black hole. They've indirectly observed them too I'm pretty sure.

Then theres super massive black holes. Those are the ones at the center of each galaxy. Really don't know much about them, except their unimaginably huge and nothing escapes. Too bad we can't send probes that far yet...

Yes, there are stars that are not part of Galaxies.... but they used to be. They were thrown free by variables of gravitational pulls, and pushes. Most certainly any life orbiting the star would have been annihilated upon exit, or long before that.

Black holes. Yes, they are at the center of galaxies, BUT, there are "roaming" massive black holes which can appear from seemingly nowhere and swallow a star system. Nature's little robot vacuum system.

One could appear near us..... surprise! There would be no escape.

Sounds like a good SyFy "Feature of the Week" :

The Intergalactic Roomba of Death

PadawanBater said:

Then theres super massive black holes. Those are the ones at the center of each galaxy. Really don't know much about them, except their unimaginably huge and nothing escapes. Too bad we can't send probes that far yet...

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Right, this is the information that I think would be needed to calculate the exponential effect that it's gravitational pull has on it's surrounding Mass, and would display a significant pattern according to the Mass of the Object..

I think I'm losing some of you, when I say gravity originates @ black holes... I'm speaking specifically about the Super Massive Black Holes @ the Center.. Gravity then acts like a surge of Current emanating from the Galaxies Core acting upon the rest of the surrounding objects of Mass.. Think of Gravity like a String, now this string Originates @ the Core of the Galaxy, now imagine this string with Beads, When you tug on the first bead, the rest follow, Having a good understanding of the Theory of Relativity, also understanding Newton's Theory of Gravitation with concern for interactions of objects of lesser Mass, will probably help point in the direction I'm aiming...and not that you all may not have a good grasp of it now...

Also, I know Stars sometimes operate in clusters, but they are still part of an Galaxy, I believe... and the Stars that get flung off I believe they are still part of the Galaxy or atleast in another Galaxies Gravity field which may have been the Fluctuations noticed causing the star to fling Off, we are just unable to calculate properly...

What I'm saying is simply this, if The Universe is estimated to being 75% Dark Energy responsible for Expansion, 22% is Dark Matter, which is primarily the Cores of All Galaxies, which acts as a force of Gravity, on the other 3% of ordinary Matter...,

We don't have the calculated #'s to verify it, but it seems that the Core of the Galaxy is responsible for the effects of Gravity enacted on the Surrounding Mass in it's Galaxy...

and yes we have mini vacuums working inside the Larger Vacuum, everybody needs a little help

anyhow, just A thought, I'm simply glad to Say I have a fresh Idea that if not actual fact, if still very plausible... I think ,

just a little FyI, did you know that our Galaxy could collide with another Galaxy, and we wouldn't even know it, although we would be able to observe it.... Life would continue on as Normal, as the Turbulent cores of Each respectively did a dance of Chaos while we lounged on the outskirts, hopefully not getting drawn too close to the Mayhem....

Ok, I'm OuT

Do all stars belong to galaxies?

Not all of them. Galaxies collide, and this process strips stars from their parent galaxy and hurls them into intergalactic space. The Hubble Space Telescope has even detected a few hundred very bright, orphan, stars between the galaxies in the Virgo Cluster if I am not mistaken. Although stars most certainly form inside some collection of matter such as a galaxy, their history after formation can include being ejected from a galaxy. Here's a news release from the Hubble Space Telescope about it:
NASA's Hubble Space Telescope has found a long sought population of "stellar outcasts" -- stars tossed out of their home galaxy into the dark emptiness of intergalactic space. This is the first time stars have been found more than 300,000 light-years (three Milky Way diameters) from the nearest big galaxy.
The isolated stars dwell in the Virgo cluster of galaxies, about 60 million light-years away. The results suggest this population of "lone stars" accounts for 10 percent of the Virgo cluster's mass, or 1 trillion Sun-like stars adrift among the 2,500 galaxies in Virgo. "Our discovery provides a new tool for studying clusters of galaxies," says Harry Ferguson of Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore, Maryland.
The distribution of the stars in Virgo could help astronomers probe the distribution of dark matter in the cluster. (Dark matter is an unknown type of matter that accounts for most of the mass of the universe.) Another possible spinoff is that the stars detected, which are the brightest members of the red giant class, may serve as "standard candles" (stars that can be used for calibrating distances), providing an independent method for measuring cosmological distances to Virgo. Such measurements are key to estimating the expansion rate and age of the universe.
These results are being presented at the 189th Meeting of the American Astronomical Society in Toronto, Canada, by Ferguson and co-investigators Nial Tanvir (University of Cambridge, Cambridge, United Kingdom) and Ted von Hippel (University of Wisconsin).
Intergalactic stars have been predicted to exist as a result of galaxy interactions and mergers early in a galaxy cluster's history. These close encounters should have ripped stars out of their home galaxies and tossed them into intergalactic space, where they drift free of the gravitational influence of any single galaxy. It was predicted that the stars should appear as a diffuse excess of light in Virgo, and there have previously been observations from ground-based telescopes that report just such an excess. "However, there are large uncertainties in the ground-based measurements, and it is not clear whether the diffuse light originates from galaxies too faint to detect individually or from a more uniform sea of stars," says Ferguson. The accidental discovery in 1996 of planetary nebulae (stellar remnants) in Virgo, which are far removed from any galaxy, offered additional evidence that such an intergalactic population really exists.
The Hubble astronomers found the background stars by taking an exposure of a "blank" portion of sky in Virgo. The position is in the vicinity of the giant elliptical galaxy M87 in the center of Virgo, but far enough from the galaxy for the stars not to be members of M87's halo. The Virgo field was compared to the Hubble Deep Field (HDF) image which represents a region of sky devoid of any nearby galaxy cluster. With the HDF serving as the control, the astronomers counted approximately 600 sources down to 27.8 magnitude.
The stars are bright red giants -- stars late in their lives. Presumably there are many fainter stars -- perhaps as many as 10 million -- in the same field but are below Hubble's sensitivity. "These stars are truly intergalactic because they are so isolated their motion is probably governed by the gravitational field of the cluster as a whole, rather than the pull of any one galaxy," says Ferguson. The Space Telescope Imaging Spectrograph (STIS) and Near Infrared Camera and Multi-Object Spectrometer (NICMOS) planned for installation on Hubble this February will be used to help understand the history of the stellar outcasts. Comparison of heavy element abundances in the "loner" stars and in the Virgo galaxies should help to uncover whether the stars wandered off from the outskirts of galaxies that still exist, are the remnants of galaxies that were completely disrupted, or were somehow formed in the dark reaches of intergalactic space.

I wanted to chime in on this. I think about this stuff a lot and I have some pretty interesting points to make...imo.

First I just want to say that there is a concious creator...that being said I don't believe in God, Jesus, Buddha or the sorts...

I do believe in an intelligent concious creator but he's not the dude your all thinking of.

It is so easy for us all to let Jesus die for our sins huh? Why can't we do shit for ourselves? To easy to let Jesus do it for us. No one can live your life for you but YOU folks.

Does it make ANY SENSE for a GOD to care so much about what I am doing in my closet or whatever? And if so does it make any sense furthermore that this same INTELLIGENT GOD would condemn me to a lifetime of eternal suffering because of something I did during my life? Seems kind of harsh don't you think? And to what end?

And if there is a mathematical order to the universe then it would seem very probable that there is no WRONG and RIGHT in the universe...just differance...left to right, up to down, black to white and wrong and right I think is one too...not good or evil.

Each person who lives must experience the shit they go through in life THEMSELVES...Jesus can't and won't...nor will his Dad. Mathematically and evolutionarily speaking, I think it makes sense that we have to experience ALL life has to offer...so we can learn as a spieces...as a complete singluar entity with mother earth. EXPERIENCES I am referring to folks is the bad shit we can't understand why it happens...murders, kidnappings and the like. Necessary "evils" (not really evil just bad) so that we as an entire species learn which behaviors are good and bad...like it or not daily murders are our constant reminder as a spieces that humans can and will kill other humans..even though those same humans are capable of tender love too. No I am not a murderer or a raper BUT that is only because it is not in my DNA. Yeah that's right...we are all just being used by Deoxyribonucleic Acid to further ITSELF.

I remember hearing a story a while ago about a supposed claim that to even miracle people to start a population one would STATISTICALLY start with at least 8 Adam and Eves...

A trait that can be passed genetically from parent to offspring is alcoholism. People didn't ALWAYS believe that but I think we can all agree that everyone today pretty much accepts that right? Why can't you accept the fact that if your Dad was a cheating wife beater so will you...? If he smokes weed so will you? Maybe I don't have enough people cringing yet...but don't ignore the molesters...the murderers...the "everything bad that you can imagine"!

People are not ready to make that leap...Hope I don't offend but I got my own demons too so...

But if you think about it it makes sense (I hate those double "its"). We murdered scientists and scholars for centuries when their knowledge from learning differed with their paper crutch. This served a purpose. At the time it kept an unpopular view away from too many people. They do that same shit today folks. When you imprison a raper you take away his chances to procreate and pass along the DNA sequence which thinks that raping is an option. This happens with all undesirables and in one way or another there has always been punishment of the most severe kind for the worse crimes...not so much an eye for an eye but a self cleansing way for our species as a whole to cleanse itself...

The key word here I think is unity. This whole planet is one mind, one singular conciousness. As an entire planet every of us is interconnected. We rally together so strangley when we need to don't we? is it so hard to think that the pack instinct can transcend to a much larger scales...the planet? This planet and every single thing on it is one..we are not seperate from her..we are of her. God this weed is good.

And not only that...

but going back to the universe thing...

What if the Mayans had it right? Scientists today are even baffled how their astrological calenders were more accurate than those of today.

Were ancient Mayans visited by aliens who then passed along their knowledge of the solar system to them? Maybe even interbred...some crazy alien/mayan love orgy...hot tangled interstellar forbidden love...maybe even a little floppy. Why did they try to change the physical appearances of their babies heads with boards strapped to them to make them elongated and flat! It's all true. These central american people had way too much knowledge and way ahead of their time.

The Mayan calender ends on December 21st 2012. This date correlates correctly with what scientists say is a point when our poles actually reverse to correct a wobble. This is a cycle that happens every 26000 years...just so happens that is how long the Mayan calender lasts and if I am not mistaken isn't the oldest known tribe on earth the abhorigines...sorry aussies...which is about 26000 years old?

This IS good stuff

Actually there is no evidence at all that the Mayans thought everything was going to end at 12/20/2012. It is far more probable that the calendar merely resets and continues.

Yeah I said it right in the FOIST place....nyuh nyuh nyuh...

CrackerJax said:

Actually there is no evidence at all that the Mayans thought everything was going to end at 12/20/2012. It is far more probable that the calendar merely resets and continues.

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Exactly.
And that is mind boggling precision.

Mindmelted said:

We like fairy tales to make us feel good

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"Fucking Tinkerbell! If she was loving, then why do bad things happen to good ppl?"

No one gets angry at Tinkerbell. Maybe that's because no one believes she REALLY exists? But, you seem to show contempt freely for God. Hmmm?

Bad things happen to good ppl, the same way good things happen to bad ppl. Randomness is the model of life. You can prepare and try to fend off the randomness via "religion", but in the end, chaos reigns supreme, as it should be.

Chaos got us here, and it will continue to serve us until we all disappear into oblivion.

In the end, all things are doomed to extinction, it's just a matter of when, not if.

dang people are pricks to say godss not our creator.. he made cannabis for US and you guys still think hes fakke

CrackerJax said:

Do all stars belong to galaxies?

Not all of them. Galaxies collide, and this process strips stars from their parent galaxy and hurls them into intergalactic space. The Hubble Space Telescope has even detected a few hundred very bright, orphan, stars between the galaxies in the Virgo Cluster if I am not mistaken. Although stars most certainly form inside some collection of matter such as a galaxy, their history after formation can include being ejected from a galaxy. Here's a news release from the Hubble Space Telescope about it:
NASA's Hubble Space Telescope has found a long sought population of "stellar outcasts" -- stars tossed out of their home galaxy into the dark emptiness of intergalactic space. This is the first time stars have been found more than 300,000 light-years (three Milky Way diameters) from the nearest big galaxy.
The isolated stars dwell in the Virgo cluster of galaxies, about 60 million light-years away. The results suggest this population of "lone stars" accounts for 10 percent of the Virgo cluster's mass, or 1 trillion Sun-like stars adrift among the 2,500 galaxies in Virgo. "Our discovery provides a new tool for studying clusters of galaxies," says Harry Ferguson of Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore, Maryland.
The distribution of the stars in Virgo could help astronomers probe the distribution of dark matter in the cluster. (Dark matter is an unknown type of matter that accounts for most of the mass of the universe.) Another possible spinoff is that the stars detected, which are the brightest members of the red giant class, may serve as "standard candles" (stars that can be used for calibrating distances), providing an independent method for measuring cosmological distances to Virgo. Such measurements are key to estimating the expansion rate and age of the universe.
These results are being presented at the 189th Meeting of the American Astronomical Society in Toronto, Canada, by Ferguson and co-investigators Nial Tanvir (University of Cambridge, Cambridge, United Kingdom) and Ted von Hippel (University of Wisconsin).
Intergalactic stars have been predicted to exist as a result of galaxy interactions and mergers early in a galaxy cluster's history. These close encounters should have ripped stars out of their home galaxies and tossed them into intergalactic space, where they drift free of the gravitational influence of any single galaxy. It was predicted that the stars should appear as a diffuse excess of light in Virgo, and there have previously been observations from ground-based telescopes that report just such an excess. "However, there are large uncertainties in the ground-based measurements, and it is not clear whether the diffuse light originates from galaxies too faint to detect individually or from a more uniform sea of stars," says Ferguson. The accidental discovery in 1996 of planetary nebulae (stellar remnants) in Virgo, which are far removed from any galaxy, offered additional evidence that such an intergalactic population really exists.
The Hubble astronomers found the background stars by taking an exposure of a "blank" portion of sky in Virgo. The position is in the vicinity of the giant elliptical galaxy M87 in the center of Virgo, but far enough from the galaxy for the stars not to be members of M87's halo. The Virgo field was compared to the Hubble Deep Field (HDF) image which represents a region of sky devoid of any nearby galaxy cluster. With the HDF serving as the control, the astronomers counted approximately 600 sources down to 27.8 magnitude.
The stars are bright red giants -- stars late in their lives. Presumably there are many fainter stars -- perhaps as many as 10 million -- in the same field but are below Hubble's sensitivity. "These stars are truly intergalactic because they are so isolated their motion is probably governed by the gravitational field of the cluster as a whole, rather than the pull of any one galaxy," says Ferguson. The Space Telescope Imaging Spectrograph (STIS) and Near Infrared Camera and Multi-Object Spectrometer (NICMOS) planned for installation on Hubble this February will be used to help understand the history of the stellar outcasts. Comparison of heavy element abundances in the "loner" stars and in the Virgo galaxies should help to uncover whether the stars wandered off from the outskirts of galaxies that still exist, are the remnants of galaxies that were completely disrupted, or were somehow formed in the dark reaches of intergalactic space.

Copyright 1997 Dr. Sten Odenwald​

Chaos wins over order.... again.​

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, Once again, you have just proved me absolutely RiGht, but certainely not Wrong..

First off, the bold print was a big helper, thanks ...

Secondly, he's talking about in General that there are Clusters of stars in intergalactic space and how they PRobaBly got there, whose Combined Mass gives it dominance of it's position where it drifts freely between Galaxies that have little effect on it solely due to it's present position in Intergalactic Space..


*****This Statement is True***** it's not contradicting anything I said,


but you are trying to make it a statement of bias, when he is stating a simple truth, you try to Sway it in YOur Opinion!!!

The stars are interGalactic because there is NO SinGle Galaxy Gravity's field that plays a Significant role in it's position, so that is where it sits, in a Cluster,

" truly intergalactic because they are so isolated their motion is probably governed by the gravitational field of the cluster as a whole, rather than the pull of any One galaxy," says Ferguson

So this just shows me why and How we have intErgalactic Stars.., and yet it's Still part of A Galaxy Cluster...,

This was good information, but it does nothing to prove against the theory I put forth, it's just another example of Relativity..

If you were trying to prove my theory wrong this does nothing to contradict it.....

ONly now I am Wise to the Fact of How Stars, better yet Cluster's of Stars come to Exist in intergalactic Space, within Galaxy Clusters, the Virgo Cluster,


Galaxy groups and clusters are the largest known gravitationally bound objects to have arisen thus far in the process of cosmic structure formation

and they are placed in Super Clusters


Back to my point of Theory, are they NOt Looking for the Distribution of Dark Matter, furthermore I'm not trying to be Right, but you have put nothing forth to discredit what I have stated, I still could be Wrong..., However, Good Information tho',

CrackerJax said:

Bad things happen to good ppl, the same way good things happen to bad ppl. Randomness is the model of life. You can prepare and try to fend off the randomness via "religion", but in the end, chaos reigns supreme, as it should be.

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Religion, like science, is just humanities way of trying to make sense of our experience here on earth. Anything can be used as a way of protecting us from the harsh realities of living. Denial works for a lot of ppl, and no religious belief is necessary.

If chaos was the true ruler, as you suggest, how is you are able to form your thoughts into coherent sentences? Because at some point you were faced with a challenge and learned from it. Orderly thoughts do not come from chaos unless the chaos was concord....in your mind anyway. We all die, but that too is a part of life's order.

CrackerJax said:

Chaos got us here, and it will continue to serve us until we all disappear into oblivion. In the end, all things are doomed to extinction, it's just a matter of when, not if.

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Dude, I want to party with you!

Thats just a great statement. A bit nihilistic, but still cool.

Brazko said:

, Once again, you have just proved me absolutely RiGht, but certainely not Wrong..

First off, the bold print was a big helper, thanks ...

Secondly, he's talking about in General that there are Clusters of stars in intergalactic space and how they PRobaBly got there, whose Combined Mass gives it dominance of it's position where it drifts freely between Galaxies that have little effect on it solely due to it's present position in Intergalactic Space..


*****This Statement is True***** it's not contradicting anything I said,


but you are trying to make it a statement of bias, when he is stating a simple truth, you try to Sway it in YOur Opinion!!!

The stars are interGalactic because there is NO SinGle Galaxy Gravity's field that plays a Significant role in it's position, so that is where it sits, in a Cluster,

" truly intergalactic because they are so isolated their motion is probably governed by the gravitational field of the cluster as a whole, rather than the pull of any One galaxy," says Ferguson

So this just shows me why and How we have intErgalactic Stars.., and yet it's Still part of A Galaxy Cluster...,

This was good information, but it does nothing to prove against the theory I put forth, it's just another example of Relativity..

If you were trying to prove my theory wrong this does nothing to contradict it.....

ONly now I am Wise to the Fact of How Stars, better yet Cluster's of Stars come to Exist in intergalactic Space, within Galaxy Clusters, the Virgo Cluster,


Galaxy groups and clusters are the largest known gravitationally bound objects to have arisen thus far in the process of cosmic structure formation

and they are placed in Super Clusters


Back to my point of Theory, are they NOt Looking for the Distribution of Dark Matter, furthermore I'm not trying to be Right, but you have put nothing forth to discredit what I have stated, I still could be Wrong..., However, Good Information tho',

Chaos only Rules N your Head, a Nice Place for It ​

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Nonsense.... complete nonsense.

You said: So this just shows me why and How we have intErgalactic Stars.., and yet it's Still part of A Galaxy Cluster...,

No, it does not mean that at all. They are independent of galactic forces.
It's right there if you pick up your reading comprehension a bit.