Sediment buildup.

Nute(s) = shorthand for nutrient(s). To create a new thread, first enter the appropiate forum for your question and look for the green box on the right side that reads "+ post new thread". You'll be good to go from there.

Also, what's with the black plastic looking stuff in the hydroton? After looking at your pics again, only the one looks less happy then the others and it doesn't even look bad.

I agree. Let them root properly and you will be fine. Do not OD them with to much neuts.

Surphin, i decided not to go with that system. It is meant for very small plants. Not that i am growing big ones, but i want them bigger than what it will support. So i opted for 2 4x4' tables, a dual Lumitec 600 digital ballast. Two "Radiant" hoods. I am complete!

Actually you can run some pretty big plants in those systems, but you need a net or screen to support the plants when they start putting on weight.

Cool deal on the tables and lights, now you're ready to rock.

Yes and yes. But if i used big plants i would have had to skip every other one. That would have only given me 30. The 4x4's are a better trade and much cheaper. I know what i am doing with them also.

Question. My product is wonderful Excellent quality. But the smell is not what it should be when dried. It is reminiscent of fresh cut hay. When broken they smell wonderful, but in the bag...Ehhh. A friend suggested, "cal mag" by botincare. He said it sounded like a nuet deficiency. Does this sound familiar? He says it will automatically adjust any problem and that is very cheap to use.

No, it's not a deficiency. It smells like that because after harvest it dried too fast. The trick is to dry it as slowly as possible, but not to slow that it will let mold to begin to grow. How are you currently drying your stuff?

Cal-mag is good stuff if you have a calcium or magnesium deficiency. Don't see how it could automatically adjust to any problem, it's just calcium, magnesium , and nitrogen. If you use it this stuff and don't have any nute problems, the extra cal/mag can cause lock-out of other nutes. Giving you other problems to go chasing.

Well. the symptoms that it corrects seems to cover some of the minor problems that i am experiencing. I have had a few get bud rot. My humidity is around 40%. Also curled leaves and tip burn. I am a stickler about keeping numbers in perspective. The "Guardian" Makes sure of that with each res. Also upward leaf curl. I notice that my bubble gum stays very nice while my two indica strains show these symptoms more often than not. My buddy at the hydro store recommended the stuff. I also have plants that do not all grow evenly, even though they are the same strain, rooted the same way and i use diamond nectar in the veg cycle. So i am willing to give it a shot under minimal usage and see how it works. What do you think?

As for drying, i cut the plants at the base after letting them sit out of the trays overnight so they dry up some. After trimming i place them on a 2x4 screen, evenly spaced. I use a fan on low to circulate air. After 3-4 days i place them in a large tupper ware pitcher with a lid on it. I do not over fill it. 3/4 full is the norm. I have two of them. I periodically open the lid and tumble gently to allow even drying. It takes about 5-6 days total, to get it there. That is the point where i notice the smell. If you crush a bud it is very pungent. Other than that, "Hay" smell.

Tip burn and leaf curling are usually signs of nute burn, I would think adding more nutes like cal/mag would only add to the problem. Personnally I would back off your nute strength by ~25% for a few weeks and see what happens. Damaged leaf will stay messed up, but you'll know if that was it if the leaf curling stops. If no signs of improvement, then go by the cal/mag. I just don't like spending money when I don't have too. Also, previous expeirence tells me that sometimes less is more. Identical plants grown the same way, sometimes do not have the same growth rates, sometimes it is just a little instability in the genetics.

They way your drying sounds good, I don't know what could be doing it. The only thing I can think of is the fan is still to strong, maybe placing the fan further away or use a smaller fan. You're gonna have to research this one, that is the only thing I can think of that is cauysing your hay smell. There is threads about it, it is a common problem.

I keep TDS in the 18 hr room at 1450. In the 12/12 it is 1350. The Blue Lab Guardian is an awesome tool at keeping 24/7 realtime readouts of the res. I have one in each res. So neut burn is a puzzling problem. All of the numbers tell me no. Yet i agree with your analogy. Some times less is better. At the hydro shop something was pointed out to me that i never considered. When mixing nuets they said always add the brown (micro) 1st. They were talking about a chemical reaction that crystalizes when added out of order. I found this to be interesting. In the past i have mixed the nuets together in a 5 gallon bucket with three gallons of water in it. They said that this was a no no also. So i will no longer pursue that shortcut. I changed out the res's today. First i did a three hour flush with flora kleen. This would take away any salt build up and help me unlock any problems. Tonight i refilled the res's in the proper steps. We will see. I am boggled. Again the bubblegum is thriving. I mean it has never looked better. The Tone and widow look ok. But my veg room seems to be part of the problem also. I will be taking some extra steps to tweak these issues. I am to anal not to. LOL. The new growth i am seeing on all of the plants is excellent. that is a plus!

I checked out the finished product that i have tonight. It is pliable, not brittle. The smell seems to have abated somewhat as far as the "hay smell" goes. I keep the lid cracked slightly and rotate every other day till disposed of. Do you dry yours till brittle? I prefer it fresh. It also generates much interest when in that condition as long as it is not "wet".

Have you ever used flora shield? What do you think and or know about it? I have so much going on. The project is extremely time consuming. I hate spending money also but i want to keep a buffer on things so as they do not get to bad before i can deal with them. So i have been tossing that around. But your words are ringing in my head about less. Damn i don't know anymore. LOL. The advanced nuets work well but take a lot of monitoring. I want the biggest bang for my buck!

As always thank you for your input. I feel comforted knowing i have a "silent partner" out there. =)

Yeah, mixing concentrated ferts for 30 gallons in only three gallons of water isn't a good idea. That's why 2 and 3-part ferts are in seperate bottles, if they were in one bottle the chemicals could bond with each other and fall out of suspension. Not sure if it's true about a particular order they are meant to be mixed, I've read that in mags and on the internet. Read one article that said you should add the one with the most P in it first, because in hydro the P is what helps buffer the PH. I don't recall any fert company stating that they should be mixed in a certain order, just to add them one at a time until fully mixed then add the next.

I've seen Florashield, but never tried it. After reading a description of it, it sounds a lot like what adding peroxide to your res. does for you. Your drying them to the right point, not brittle but not wet either, I prefer mine a little more on the dry side though, but that is just me.

One of the reasons I went back to basics with K.I.S.S. is it seemed like the more products I used the more problems I had and would run in circles trying to figure what was the culprit for any particular problem. I was using the lucas (bullshit) formula GH 3-part, cal/mag+, floralicous plus, florablend, and koolbloom. Now I just use RO water and GH 3-part mixing according to the directions, the ppm's come out around 1050 and adjust the PH. That's it and no problems what-so-ever, I check the PH everyday, but I typically don't even have to adjust it unless I've added back a lot of top off water. Sometimes less is more. Not to say I'm settled with the results, there is room for improvement, I may start adding the floralicous plus again.

You're using AN 3-part, anything else? You're using tap water too right, what is the ppm's of your tap water? Just wondering because your ppm's seem high to me, but I have seen plenty of strains handle more that that. You may have to consider that differents plants have different nutrient requirements, which could be why your BG's are fine but your other strains are hurting. Glad to help.

I used the calculator that GH has for the PPM ratio. The target was 1350 at 12/12 and 1450 at 18hr. I mix to the exact spec. Besides using the GH-3 step i also use Flora blend and Flora Licous. Kool bloom and Peroxide. The tap water comes out around 250-300. the ph is a little above 7. I will look at the calculator again since you it is high. As for the flora shield i think your analogy is correct. I will stick with the peroxide. It sounds like we have been down the same path. Again all i want is the biggest yield for the cheapest and easiest route. I am pleased with the results, (more or less) of my last harvest. At 24"-28"'s the yield is ample and the maintenance minimal in comparison to larger plants. I have to get my pvc stand built for my newest tables. Everything else is ready.

So in your 12/12 it is running at 1050? Is the 18 at 1150? Just wondering.

Oh, that's why your ppm's are higher than mine your water is 250 to start. Mine is 20, definitely try backing off the 3-part nutes a little bit. You may want to look into a RO filter, since your starting ppm's are 250, you gotta figure a bit of that is calcium, magnesium, and other minerals including stuff you don't want like chlorine and chloramine. A good filter will take care of all that, so you know your res. only has in it what you put there. Makes problem solving easier. Here is a link to some cheap ro filters http://www.purewaterclub.com/ I keep my 18 more around 600-700, because their still young and can't handle more that.

Thanks for the link. I will check it out. As for "Young". What do you consider young? Should i be rooting and vegging for that couple of weeks at a half solution? I never really considered that fully. Again i am going off of the calculator provided by the nuet manufacturer. It is so easy to overlook obvious things when looking at so many other things over and over. Damn. Again, the more i learn the more i realize how much i do not know. But again the calculator takes into consideration whether or not you are using ro or not. But the fact that they are young does make food for thought. I feel that once they root well at one watering per day, (1-2 weeks), that the plants are acclimated enough to be considered "old enough" to be given full strength nuets. Remember that i have two trays connected to each res that i have set up. Each tray has its own pump and timer but share the same solution. It will make it difficult to separate. I would have to run half strength solution in both trays for the duration of their veg cycle. I really wonder what i should do.

What I do with young plants; like less than 2 weeks old with actual roots, is because that is what they can take and are still happy. If your plants are happy with more nutes, then give it to them. Differents strains have different requirements, some may grow fine with a weaker solution but love are stronger mix. Others maybe not so much. Remember don't pay to much attention to what other people are doing and just listen to what your plants are tellin' ya. I think your's are old enough to give them full strength.

I will experiment with this idea. Since i have three different strains going i am sure the older ones will not mind a weaker solution for that one res change. I change the res every 10-14 days. This cloner i have kicks major ass. if i let them in it to long they start growing vertically and the root mass is incredible. I do not do this often. Only when the trays are full. LOL. That will be a lot less when the 4x4's kick in. I am going to focus more on the veg cycle to tweak in any abnormalities. What the heck. All of the plants are starting to look really good after this last res change. I see a difference already.

Hey, that's cool if things are going good again after your last res. change. Your problem may not have been nute burn or deficiency of some kind, it may have been how you were mixing up your nutes.

Yes i am hoping so. I have been searching the forums. I have not seen anything about the "hay smell". I also want to know, what do you think would not make the bud get as sticky as before? Heat? humidity? I am using enhancer's as you know. I want to get them "tighter" also. Some are, some are not. I am baffled. I was talking to someone that did it for years. He said that he would start a res with regular nuets. Then after several weeks he started brewing bat guano tea's. He would keep the tds around 800. Never use nuets again through the cycle. Just tea each week. He would go through several kinds during the 12/12 duration. He said he never had any problems and the finished product was awesome. I keep trying to find different ideas. I want a good all around method that works with proper care.

Stay in the harvesting and curing section, but you'll have to dig through the threads which will take forever and the search function isn't that good on this site. Try this, go to google and type in: site:rollitup.org hay smell. I did just did it, it pulled up a ton of threads. That is the best way to search through any forum site. Type in sitewhatever web address) then keyword(s).

Could of been your heat problem that caused issues with your trich development. Heat will mess with all growth and development. Are the buds that are tighter closer/further away from the light compared to ones that are not? Were they being shaded out from a fan leaf? As for brewing teas, that's not for me. If I were to go soil then, maybe yeah, go all they way organic. But teas + hydro? No thanks, too much extra work and way more messy and not really convinced of difference between chem vs salt anyways. Just keep looking for your weakest link and fix it, then find the next weakest and so on. Keep going 'til you got your OP dialed in, when you're running at your max consistently then look for ways to push your barrier.

As always your advice seems sound. I am open to anything but i am not willing to commit without proof. So i will, if anything experiment with one of my res's later down the road when things are dialed in.
The tighter buds are the closest to the light. I really think that i need to let them go longer. From what little i have read, premature picking and hot drying rooms seem to be the biggest culprits for the "hay smell". I think i will pay more attention to the lessening of nitrogen in the end cycle also. I want to see those leaves really yellow and falling off. The adjustment that i have done this past week are still looking really good. I will be setting up my new tables within the next month. That room will be cooler overall in the first place. It has an ambient temp of 62 year round. Much easier to work with.


Thanks for the google tip. I do not know why i did not think of it. Google is always my friend!

brwnhornet said:

I think i will pay more attention to the lessening of nitrogen in the end cycle also. I want to see those leaves really yellow and falling off.

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I'm not saying that is right or wrong, but you may want to read this:

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/158144-never-ending-abuse-phosphorous-bloom.html

This one is pretty interesting too:

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/268790-lucas-formula-recipe-scratch-really.html

Yeah, from what I read it's the left over chlorophyll that gives the hay smell. Everything seems to be in consensus that it is caused from drying too fast, the trick is to dry them slow enough that the inside of the bud dries at the same rate as the outside of the bud.

Yes your last statement seems right on Brother. I am about to read the links you posted. Thank you for taking the time. Also something that validates the drying issue you raised is, i came across some i had put away about a month ago and forgot, LOL, that i had it. When i opened it it was wonderful. Now it was completely dried out, crispy in fact. That is not what i want, but it is a good sign of what you stated as being true. I will let you know what i think about these articles. Peace