War

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Maybe steel hulls, but not the goodies that go inside and make them deadly in all conditions. Ukraine will end up using Leopards and perhaps M1s, vastly superior to anything the Russians could field even when not under sanctions. They had an economy smaller than Italy's before the war and it was largely energy based with little domestic industrial or technical capacity. Their education system has been a shambles and the old Soviet era engineers and scientists are largely gone. Corruption permeates the kleptocracy from top to bottom and is most evident in the performance of their army.
I would not knock the Russian education system compared to the US, nor would I knock the Russian pre-war economy. By GDP, Italy is the 10th largest economy, Russia is 11th. As you say, the Russian economy was resource-driven but I'd put the lack of growth in the business sector down to corruption and the difficulty starting a new business in a kleptocracy. Anybody who succeeds in their start-up would become targets of kleptocrats.

So, let's not generalize. Putin's war and war machine are failing. I think the people of Russia can be every bit as hard working and innovative given the right conditions. They will need all of that and more to recover their economies (I also think Russia will break up into smaller states) once Ukraine wins this war and Putin's Russia fades to a bad memory.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I would not knock the Russian education system compared to the US, nor would I knock the Russian pre-war economy. By GDP, Italy is the 10th largest economy, Russia is 11th. As you say, the Russian economy was resource-driven but I'd put the lack of growth in the business sector down to corruption and the difficulty starting a new business in a kleptocracy. Anybody who succeeds in their start-up would become targets of kleptocrats.

So, let's not generalize. Putin's war and war machine are failing. I think the people of Russia can be every bit as hard working and innovative given the right conditions. They will need all of that and more to recover their economies (I also think Russia will break up into smaller states) once Ukraine wins this war and Putin's Russia fades to a bad memory.
I agree, but by the time the Russians get their shit together, the war in Ukraine will be lost and Crimea gone, this will put enormous strain on the regime. Already army people are not being paid and how long before the pensions for the elderly and vulnerable dry up? A half million of their best and brightest youth walked out of the country and the morale of the army is at rock bottom.

To reform the army, they must reform the political system and it needs reform from NCO's to the command structure, the officer corps level of competence and its ethos is abysmal. These internal cultural reforms must take place first, aside from equipment and vastly improved training. In the end soldiers must believe in their government and cause and have confidence in their leadership and their own organization and readiness. They must be told the truth about things and know WTF they are doing and why they are doing it, task and purpose.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Friendship means telling hard truths about the endgame in Ukraine
The handwriting is on the wall. As extensively covered in these pages, the evolution of U.S. domestic politics — as indicated in critical commentary from prominent political figures by no means limited to the right wing of the Republican Party — makes it increasingly clear that President Biden’s policy of robust, largely unconditional military and financial support of Ukraine cannot, and probably should not, be sustained.

To give Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-Fla.), Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif) and other naysayers their due, U.S. officials should never issue “blank checks” in support of any policy, save to counter an existential threat. Resources and risks must always be carefully calibrated in proportion to the genuine national interests at stake.

Despite the foolishly narrow terms in which he has framed the issue, DeSantis is right: The Russian invasion of Ukraine, on its own, is no threat to U.S. national security. It is only when the issue is viewed more broadly, in the context of the continued aggressive Russian adventurism the sacrifice of Ukraine could incentivize — to say nothing of the demonstration effect which Ukraine’s conquest would register in Beijing — that we begin to assess the actual national security stakes involved. Even then, it would be hard to argue that the full defense of every inch of Ukrainian territory is absolutely vital to Western interests.

The shift in the U.S. political zeitgeist has surely not gone unnoticed in Kyiv, but neither should it be ignored by the Biden administration. Now is the time for the administration to engage in some hard critical thinking, followed by tough talk in Kyiv, in NATO capitals, and yes, in Moscow.
Although the stakes I dealt with were decidedly lower, the current situation puts me in mind of a mission I undertook 20 years ago in northern Iraq, just three months before the March 2003 U.S. invasion.

CIA’s robust pre-invasion intelligence campaign, which depended upon Iraqi Kurdish support for teams operating at considerable peril within the country, was at risk. Fearful that U.S. threats of war with Saddam might be nothing more than a bluff that would leave them vulnerable to vicious reprisals, Kurdish leaders were weighing whether to cut a new deal with Baghdad of the sort they had negotiated in the past, which would have worked heavily against our interests.

At the same time, the U.S. was actively trying to convince a reluctant Turkish government to allow the U.S. 4th Infantry Division to transit Turkey and invade Iraq from the north (while the main force moved up from Kuwait). Though the likelihood of Turkish permission was low, all anticipated that the price for Turkish cooperation, if it came, would be a U.S. agreement to allow Turkish forces to accompany the division into Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq, where the Turks would have their own agenda.

Despite the fact that the Iraqi Kurds were fierce, avowed enemies of the Turks, no one in the George W. Bush administration thought to take them into confidence. That fell to CIA, and therefore, to me.

After providing Kurdish leaders the assurances they sought, I came to the bad news: If the Turks allowed the 4th Infantry Division to pass, they would insist on sending troops to accompany it. And if the Turks agreed, in effect, to join the U.S.-led coalition, the U.S. could not say no.
Kurdish leader Masoud Barzani responded with expected truculence, saying his troops would shoot any Turkish troops that cross the border. I looked at him with feigned impassivity. “No,” I said evenly. “You won’t.”
I explained that Turkish troops, if it came to that, would not be transiting the border alone. “They will be with us,” I said. And if Kurdish Peshmerga forces engaged them, they would be considered defenders of Saddam by U.S. forces, and treated accordingly.

Though he was clearly unhappy, the rest of the conversation with Masoud was far more agreeable and constructive. That was only possible because Masoud knew throughout that he was dealing with a friend, one who had come not to threaten, but to do him the courtesy of telling him the unvarnished truth about a situation neither of us could avoid.

The time is fast approaching when a senior representative of the Biden administration will need to begin a similarly tough, realistic — and empathetic — dialogue with Zelensky. Biden is surely seen as a great friend in Kyiv. But his ability to deliver on his implicit and explicit promises of support for Ukraine “for as long as it takes” is likely to be curtailed in the near future. That’s something he can’t help. Now would be the time to begin to disabuse Zelensky of the notion that he can count on unqualified U.S. and Western support for war aims that he sets unilaterally.

Specifically, Zelensky must be pushed in the direction of a negotiated solution, likely to include territorial concessions on Crimea and the Donbas. That would be admittedly unpalatable, to say the least. In a just world, it would be a non-starter. But in an American political environment that is increasingly focused on core U.S. interests, which include the maintenance of Ukraine as a bulwark again further Russian encroachment on Europe, it must also be acknowledged that not all of Ukraine is necessary to meet that goal. The offset, and the concomitant to a policy focused on European security, would be the extension to Ukraine of a far more explicit and permanent NATO security arrangement, probably ending in full NATO membership and Article 5 security guarantees.

The latter, of course, will surely be unacceptable to Russia. But in the end, Putin will have to accept that these are the wages of sin, the inevitable result of a disastrous miscalculation. He cannot expect that NATO will maintain something like the status quo ante in terms of its expansion, when he has gone so far as demonstrating that the possible eventuality which NATO’s post-cold-war continuation was designed to forestall is, in fact, not a hypothetical but a clear and present danger. His alternative will be to risk utter, humiliating defeat.

The U.S. point to him could be reinforced by an agreement to provide Ukraine with advanced American fighter aircraft. The agreement would be purely symbolic for some time to come, as such aircraft cannot be immediately absorbed by a Ukrainian air force lacking the necessary training and logistics. But the short-term political symbolism and the long-term threat to Putin’s strategy of attrition could be telling.

That is not to suggest for a moment that the U.S. should engage in negotiating Ukraine’s future. Kyiv is not Kabul, and cannot be treated as such. Ukraine will make its own sovereign decisions regarding war aims. But Zelensky will need to understand, given his near-abject dependence on Western support, that there will be limits on the aspirations the West will support, and therefore on what he can legitimately hope to achieve.

A nation once seen as hopelessly corrupt and tied only tenuously to Western values, Ukraine has become an international symbol of freedom, democracy and principled resistance to aggression. Anyone involved in dealing with Ukraine on behalf of the U.S. cannot be unmoved by that. But politics and geography are real. Neither Ukraine nor we can help that it shares a long border with a large, powerful and paranoid neighbor. Ukraine’s friends and supporters have interests that will eventually overshadow their affections, and their resources are finite.

Just as I was called upon to do in northern Iraq 20 years ago, that is the message which can and must be conveyed by a true friend in Kyiv.
Robert Grenier served for 27 years in the Central Intelligence Agency, ending his career as director of the CIA CounterTerrorism Center, responsible for all CIA counter-terror operations around the globe. He is the author of “88 Days to Kandahar: A CIA Diary.”

Food for thought.
this "article" is relying on a lot of things happening...the largest among them is the republicans regaining the senate and possibly the white house.
i don't see that happening till at least 28, possibly not till 32 if it takes them too long to get rid of the dead weight magats that are destroying the country and their own party.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
I would not knock the Russian education system compared to the US, nor would I knock the Russian pre-war economy. By GDP, Italy is the 10th largest economy, Russia is 11th. As you say, the Russian economy was resource-driven but I'd put the lack of growth in the business sector down to corruption and the difficulty starting a new business in a kleptocracy. Anybody who succeeds in their start-up would become targets of kleptocrats.

So, let's not generalize. Putin's war and war machine are failing. I think the people of Russia can be every bit as hard working and innovative given the right conditions. They will need all of that and more to recover their economies (I also think Russia will break up into smaller states) once Ukraine wins this war and Putin's Russia fades to a bad memory.
If Navalny or someone equally committed to making life in russia better comes into power, the entire population could be turned around in a couple of generations, but as it sits right now, it seems to be an entire country full of bitter, hopeless, cynics, and they seem to be fully justified in that.
Fully justified,bitter hopeless cynics raise more bitter, hopeless cyincs. You have to break the cycle, and i don't think Ukraine winning the war will be enough, without outside intercession.
I'm not suggesting assassination, but we do have people who have helped unstable nations become even more unstable, and who are experts at manipulating those situations...this seems like one of the few morally defensible occasions that many of those people could be put to work.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
this "article" is relying on a lot of things happening...the largest among them is the republicans regaining the senate and possibly the white house.
i don't see that happening till at least 28, possibly not till 32 if it takes them too long to get rid of the dead weight magats that are destroying the country and their own party.
Given the trajectory of the republican party, I'd say they are well past the peak of the arc and are headed for a crater, dunno how long it will take, but if America elects these clowns to government in 24, the entire country will be included in the crater, and it will be a lot bigger. I think the many trials and convictions in 23 and 24 along with their performance (in a theatrical sense) in the house will spell their doom. We can only hope Donald turns on them in the end and runs a bull moose from his cell along with his own "freedom" party candidates for house and senate. If he takes just 10% of them nationally, they are screwed. Independents have notoriously short memories when it comes to the misdeeds of the right, and it is best the shit hit the fan as close to the election as possible.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
nor would I knock the Russian pre-war economy. By GDP, Italy is the 10th largest economy, Russia is 11th.
A regular comparisson over the past year, hopefully originally not intended to suggest Russia’s economy is a ‘small’ as Italy’s. What usually isn’t mentioned is that the national debt of Italy is over 130%. They need billions injected by the EU to remain the 10th largest economy while constantly being in an economic crisis. The reason they get it is their economy and debt being so large the EU can’t let it collapse. Russia’s national debt is only a 6th of that of Italy’s.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
this "article" is relying on a lot of things happening...the largest among them is the republicans regaining the senate and possibly the white house.
i don't see that happening till at least 28, possibly not till 32 if it takes them too long to get rid of the dead weight magats that are destroying the country and their own party.
The Republicans have the House, without them acting responsively I can see Ukraine getting less help. While I disagree that Russia should get anything from its invasion other than the bill to fix everything I do not see the US and Europe feeding an endless war.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

Riots in Russian army: soldiers refuse to perform tasks being thrown into war with poor equipment

5,208 views Mar 26, 2023 #UATV #UATV_English #UkraineNews
More than half a thousand criminal cases were opened in Russia against conscientious objectors, Mediazona writes. And this is according to data that journalists were able to find on the websites of Russian military garrison courts. Human rights activists say that the real figures may be much higher. For more on the attempts of the Russian military to avoid participation in combat operations and the legal lawlessness in the federation, our colleagues will tell.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
The Republicans have the House, without them acting responsively I can see Ukraine getting less help. While I disagree that Russia should get anything from its invasion other than the bill to fix everything I do not see the US and Europe feeding an endless war.
No, and neither do I...Which is one of the major reasons I see the attrition game as untenable for much longer. It's time to start taking this shit home to russian territory. Make it hurt, up close and personal.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
No, and neither do I...Which is one of the major reasons I see the attrition game as untenable for much longer. It's time to start taking this shit home to russian territory. Make it hurt, up close and personal.
Drive them to the borders and shell them inside their own up to artillery range. Destroy the rail bridges to Ukraine 100 miles inside Russia to cut them off and keep them away long enough for Vlad to die. Then they can blame the whole thing on Vlad when he is safely in his grave, I mean he can't just fall out a window, there will need to be a state funeral etc!
 

doublejj

Well-Known Member
The Republicans have the House, without them acting responsively I can see Ukraine getting less help. While I disagree that Russia should get anything from its invasion other than the bill to fix everything I do not see the US and Europe feeding an endless war.
why?....the US just did 20years in Afghanistan without blinking an eye. And this war is degrading our biggest arch rival. Plus US soldiers aren't fighting it. It's good business for the industrial complex. Win/Win/Win for America
Edit: US has 8000 Abrams tanks
 
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doublejj

Well-Known Member

Riots in Russian army: soldiers refuse to perform tasks being thrown into war with poor equipment

5,208 views Mar 26, 2023 #UATV #UATV_English #UkraineNews
More than half a thousand criminal cases were opened in Russia against conscientious objectors, Mediazona writes. And this is according to data that journalists were able to find on the websites of Russian military garrison courts. Human rights activists say that the real figures may be much higher. For more on the attempts of the Russian military to avoid participation in combat operations and the legal lawlessness in the federation, our colleagues will tell.
They will crack and run as soon as Ukraine starts their offensive.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
why?....the US just did 20years in Afghanistan without blinking an eye. And this war is degrading our biggest arch rival. Plus US soldiers aren't fighting it. It's good business for the industrial complex. Win/Win/Win for America
Edit: US has 8000 Abrams tanks
2 years I figure, the Europeans want an end to it, Russia out of Ukraine and Ukraine gas in the EU, and that won't happen without Crimea too, with that comes control of the black sea. Russia is on the rocks already militarily and economically and I believe headed for a major defeat this summer, a Blitzkrieg doesn't take much ammo and if successful, not many lives either, it can also capture enemy stocks of ammo. Don't believe a thing out of Kyiv for a while, this is like the D-day invasion, the Russians roughly know when the blow will be struck, but not where and deception programs are in full swing.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

Ukraine Update: Is Ukraine developing a 100,000-strong drone swarm attack?


In yesterday’s update, Mark Sumner wrote about Russia’s use of FPV drones as kamikaze weapons. Ukraine has already been using them for several months.


An FPV (First Person View) drone is a racing drone piloted by a virtual-reality-headset.
They are much cheaper than your typical drone, as they lack the sophisticated image stabilization electronics and crystal clear cameras of your typical Mavic commercial drone. In other words, they won’t hover over a target and provide perfectly steady video, so you won't catch these spotting artillery or tracking enemy troop movements. What they do have is speed and maneuverability. Certain models can fly up to 120 miles per hour, and they are unbelievably nimble. Watch one in action with an experienced operator:


That speed and power is part of their military value—those powerful motors allow Ukraine (and Russia, I guess) to add heavier warheads than the small grenades carried by the typical commercial drone. They won’t hit their targets at 120 MPH, but they don’t need to. With a rocket-propelled-grenade (RPG) warhead, these things can be lethal:

1679876666458.png

In this Forbes article, tech writer and drone expert David Hambling digs into Russian rumors that Ukraine has bought 50-100,000 FPG drones for use in its upcoming spring counteroffensive. “Russian Engineer” went viral on Telegram with this dire warning:

Recently, it has become known that, in terms of drones, buyers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine have bought up almost the entire market of FPV drone components in China, according to indirect estimates, by 50-100 thousand units. They have already trained more than a thousand operators of these models. They make them into kamikaze with a shaped charge warhead from RPG-7, or with a fragmentation grenade. And they have accumulated all this before the offensive.
There are several reasons this is likely all bullcrap: 1) How would this guy know Ukraine’s purchasing decisions? 2) Is he really saying that China can only produce 50-100,000 of these drones? 3) How did he come upon secret information on how many people Ukraine is training to operate drones? And 4) how does he know how many drones Ukraine has already accumulated? I mean, given that he’s the sole source for all this information, we can be skeptical that it’s real.

But that aside, let’s imagine what 50-100,000 kamikaze drones could do to punch holes in Russia’s extensive (and growing) network of defensive entrenchments in its occupied territory.

...
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus

Ukraine Update: Is Ukraine developing a 100,000-strong drone swarm attack?


In yesterday’s update, Mark Sumner wrote about Russia’s use of FPV drones as kamikaze weapons. Ukraine has already been using them for several months.


An FPV (First Person View) drone is a racing drone piloted by a virtual-reality-headset.
They are much cheaper than your typical drone, as they lack the sophisticated image stabilization electronics and crystal clear cameras of your typical Mavic commercial drone. In other words, they won’t hover over a target and provide perfectly steady video, so you won't catch these spotting artillery or tracking enemy troop movements. What they do have is speed and maneuverability. Certain models can fly up to 120 miles per hour, and they are unbelievably nimble. Watch one in action with an experienced operator:


That speed and power is part of their military value—those powerful motors allow Ukraine (and Russia, I guess) to add heavier warheads than the small grenades carried by the typical commercial drone. They won’t hit their targets at 120 MPH, but they don’t need to. With a rocket-propelled-grenade (RPG) warhead, these things can be lethal:

View attachment 5275081

In this Forbes article, tech writer and drone expert David Hambling digs into Russian rumors that Ukraine has bought 50-100,000 FPG drones for use in its upcoming spring counteroffensive. “Russian Engineer” went viral on Telegram with this dire warning:


There are several reasons this is likely all bullcrap: 1) How would this guy know Ukraine’s purchasing decisions? 2) Is he really saying that China can only produce 50-100,000 of these drones? 3) How did he come upon secret information on how many people Ukraine is training to operate drones? And 4) how does he know how many drones Ukraine has already accumulated? I mean, given that he’s the sole source for all this information, we can be skeptical that it’s real.

But that aside, let’s imagine what 50-100,000 kamikaze drones could do to punch holes in Russia’s extensive (and growing) network of defensive entrenchments in its occupied territory.

...
What is the largest (most units) simultaneous (independently or individually guided) FPV drone attack to date? How many can be flown at once with available bandwidth?

How hard is it to provide real-time forward air control to an engaged FPV operator?
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
What is the largest (most units) simultaneous (independently or individually guided) FPV drone attack to date? How many can be flown at once with available bandwidth?

How hard is it to provide real-time forward air control to an engaged FPV operator?
they do have controllers that can pilot up to ten units in a swarm, i saw a video about it, maybe DIY posted it? i can't remember, but if they have shifts of 100 operators running swarms of 10 each, and as soon as they hit their targets, the next shift steps in, they could easily run nonstop until they ran out of drones.
I'm sure the Ukrainians will run clouds of smaller, cheaper, poorly armed drones to absorb AA fire first, then send in the good stuff.
I'd sure like to see that, from a safe distance.
 
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