War

Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
printer said:
UK Will Back Poland if it Sends Jets to Ukraine
British defense minister Ben Wallace said on Tuesday Britain would support Poland if it decided to provide Ukraine with fighter jets, but warned that doing so might have direct consequences for Poland.
"I would support the Poles and whatever choice they make," Wallace told Sky News, adding that the United Kingdom could not offer aircraft that the Ukrainians would be able to use.

"We would protect Poland, we'll help them with anything that they need," he said. "Poland will understand that the choices they make will not only directly help Ukraine, which is a good thing, but also may bring them into direct line of fire from countries such as Russia or Belarus."

www.newsmax.com

UK Will Back Poland if it Sends Jets to Ukraine

British defense minister Ben Wallace said on Tuesday Britain would support Poland if it decided to provide Ukraine with fighter jets, but warned that doing so might have direct consequences for Poland.
www.newsmax.com www.newsmax.com
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what does "backing Poland" actually mean?
"We would protect Poland, we'll help them with anything that they need," he said. "Poland will understand that the choices they make will not only directly help Ukraine, which is a good thing, but also may bring them into direct line of fire from countries such as Russia or Belarus."
that's a sort of vague statement when it comes right down to it? is that a commitment to send in troops if Poland is attacked by russia or belarus?
or is it just a promise of find wishes and cheers from the sidelines? does "protect Poland" mean physical protection? or condemnation of russian violence against Poland?.....
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Grandpapy said:
Now what would China do with a 100yrs worth of Oil?
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They are trying to move away from oil as fast as they can and have bet heavily on a green new grid, battery technology and EVs. Europe is a lot more EV friendly than America, most trains are electric and trucks with electric pantograph systems and batteries could become common. How much oil will Europe need in 10 years? Not nearly as much as today, same for America, if half the cars on the road here were EV's in 10 years. So I figure Russia only has a decade to sell oil, until demand and price starts to drop, in 20 years it will be even worse for oil producers. I also think Iran knows this too as do other petroleum producers. This war will accelerate that trend tremendously in Europe especially and EVs will make more economic sense to most people there.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
Ok, let's just say that Vlad out of anger, frustration or insanity, dropped a tactical nuke on Kyiv, an ancient religious and cultural site for his own people. Apparently the place is full of former soviet nuclear bomb shelters and Zelenskiy is probably operating out of one of those. Much of the civilian population and useless mouths will be removed to the west because the city is still open to resupply and evacuation. Many of the fighters will be in these bunkers and so will their supplies, since a lot of the people who would fill them have been evacuated. So a 20KT tactical nuke goes off in the historic center of Kyiv with a big fucking radioactive mushroom cloud with lots of fall out cause it will be a ground burst.

NATO would probably not react right away, or with a nuclear response, they would let Vlad twist in the wind, but would up the stakes considerably. After he did that out of spite and revenge, he would be in a lot of danger back home IMHO. It would do little to change the facts on the ground, but it would make it very dangerous for Russia as America went to DECON2 along with Britain and France, a no fly zone would be at minimum a given.

I'm sure contingency and war plans are being worked out, that's what they do
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i'm not talking about A 20KT tactical...putin is fucking CRAZY...everything he has done has been CRAZY...do NOT expect rational behavior from him.
Rational people don't tell transparent lies to excuse invading a neighbors property, killing indiscriminately as they go, so that they can re-establish a fallen empire for themselves to rule...
the reason NATO hasn't already stepped in is the very real possibility that he will turn not only Ukrain but a good bit of Poland, Moldova, Romania, and Hungary into unlivable fallout zones, and the average EU citizen will be getting very unhealthy doses for a good long time...russians will as well, but putin could give a fuck about his own peasants, they're all expendable for the glory of russky mir..
so, while i would be happy if NATO walked into Ukrain and kicked the fuck out of the russian army, and then went on to moscow to arrest putin, that ain't gonna happen. If things stall out too bad, and putin doesn't see himself winning, he could very believably do the same thing...
if there were no nukes involved, everything you've said would be valid, but there are, and a mad man LITERALLY has his hand on the trigger
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Roger A. Shrubber said:
i'm not talking about A 20KT tactical...putin is fucking CRAZY...everything he has done has been CRAZY...do NOT expect rational behavior from him.
Rational people don't tell transparent lies to excuse invading a neighbors property, killing indiscriminately as they go, so that they can re-establish a fallen empire for themselves to rule...
the reason NATO hasn't already stepped in is the very real possibility that he will turn not only Ukrain but a good bit of Poland, Moldova, Romania, and Hungary into unlivable fallout zones, and the average EU citizen will be getting very unhealthy doses for a good long time...russians will as well, but putin could give a fuck about his own peasants, they're all expendable for the glory of russky mir..
so, while i would be happy if NATO walked into Ukrain and kicked the fuck out of the russian army, and then went on to moscow to arrest putin, that ain't gonna happen. If things stall out too bad, and putin doesn't see himself winning, he could very believably do the same thing...
if there were no nukes involved, everything you've said would be valid, but there are, and a mad man LITERALLY has his hand on the trigger
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Sigh, remember when 20 kt was strategic?

1646772035343.png
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
zeddd

zeddd

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
what does "backing Poland" actually mean?
"We would protect Poland, we'll help them with anything that they need," he said. "Poland will understand that the choices they make will not only directly help Ukraine, which is a good thing, but also may bring them into direct line of fire from countries such as Russia or Belarus."
that's a sort of vague statement when it comes right down to it? is that a commitment to send in troops if Poland is attacked by russia or belarus?
or is it just a promise of find wishes and cheers from the sidelines? does "protect Poland" mean physical protection? or condemnation of russian violence against Poland?.....
Click to expand...
In his English it means make a good bet on. Like picking a winner in a horse race, even though the horse is ultimately expendable
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
i'm not talking about A 20KT tactical...putin is fucking CRAZY...everything he has done has been CRAZY...do NOT expect rational behavior from him.
Rational people don't tell transparent lies to excuse invading a neighbors property, killing indiscriminately as they go, so that they can re-establish a fallen empire for themselves to rule...
the reason NATO hasn't already stepped in is the very real possibility that he will turn not only Ukrain but a good bit of Poland, Moldova, Romania, and Hungary into unlivable fallout zones, and the average EU citizen will be getting very unhealthy doses for a good long time...russians will as well, but putin could give a fuck about his own peasants, they're all expendable for the glory of russky mir..
so, while i would be happy if NATO walked into Ukrain and kicked the fuck out of the russian army, and then went on to moscow to arrest putin, that ain't gonna happen. If things stall out too bad, and putin doesn't see himself winning, he could very believably do the same thing...
if there were no nukes involved, everything you've said would be valid, but there are, and a mad man LITERALLY has his hand on the trigger
Click to expand...
I don't think he is mad, just desperate and evil. We have to play the game carefully and are, no rush, time is on our side, not his.

Besides there are all those millions of soviet arms NATO got stuck with to get rid of inside the Ukraine and Vlad's empire. The fuckers sowed the wind with these instruments of death and now they will reap the whirlwind as the weapons they made and paid for are turned against them.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
zeddd said:
At some point this is going to become intolerable to western public opinion, Nato is already involved with “backfilling” Polish fighter jets and shipping Javelin missiles, so I assume you are referring to a nfz?
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I'm conflicted about the US holding firm at NATO borders but I don't know what the exit strategy would be. Risk of nuclear war aside, what happens after Russia is forcibly repelled from Ukraine?

Before Putin invaded, Ukraine was a developing democracy with internal problems, corruption being one of them. We saw how it went in Iraq and Afghanistan after war ended. We are finally free from those tar babies, are we going to take a whack at another after less than a year has gone by when we left Afghanistan in shambles?

1646772851079.png
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
I don't think he is mad, just desperate and evil. We have to play the game carefully and are, no rush, time is on our side, not his.

Besides there all those millions of soviet arms NATO got stuck with to get rid of inside the Ukraine and Vlad's empire. The fuckers sowed the wind with these instruments of death and now they will reap the whirlwind as the weapons they made and paid for are turned against them.
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i think he is mad...madder than ten mad hatters and 13 white rabbits...but i hope you're right and i'm wrong
 
zeddd

zeddd

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I'm conflicted about the US holding firm at NATO borders but I don't know what the exit strategy would be. Risk of nuclear war aside, what happens after Russia is forcibly repelled from Ukraine?

Before Putin invaded, Ukraine was a developing democracy with internal problems, corruption being one of them. We saw how it went in Iraq and Afghanistan after war ended. We are finally free from those tar babies, are we going to take a whack at another after less than a year has gone by when we left Afghanistan in shambles?

View attachment 5098169
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The Afghanis don’t have nukes thank Allah
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Fogdog said:
I'm conflicted about the US holding firm at NATO borders but I don't know what the exit strategy would be. Risk of nuclear war aside, what happens after Russia is forcibly repelled from Ukraine?

Before Putin invaded, Ukraine was a developing democracy with internal problems, corruption being one of them. We saw how it went in Iraq and Afghanistan after war ended. We are finally free from those tar babies, are we going to take a whack at another after less than a year has gone by when we left Afghanistan in shambles?

View attachment 5098169
Click to expand...
Afghanistan was a doomed tilt at windmills from the git-go. I’m not sure the situation here compares.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
i think he is mad...madder than ten mad hatters and 13 white rabbits...but i hope you're right and i'm wrong
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Vlad got out of touch, but he is adapting to being bitch slapped by reality, mental flexibility is a sign of good mental health. He might be an asshole who believes his own fiction, but I don't think he lost his marbles. He is shocked, pissed and humiliated now, give him some time to cool off and think things through, let him twist in the wind for a spell. Usually major defeats bring about settlements in these conflicts, captured general being sent to The Hague for war crimes and thousands of their soldiers cut off from supplies, surrendering or surrounded with supplies cut off and relief far away. Kinda like Yorktown.
 
zeddd

zeddd

Well-Known Member
This is a problem like no other we have ever faced in the history of humanity, we face an extinction event within weeks, there is no use in drawing comparisons from the past. Hitler didn’t start ww2 this crazy. He is literally opening up humanitarian corridors and then shelling the evacuees. It gets worse from here unless someone stops him.
 
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