What happened to the Democrats??

NoDrama said:

That is the Federal Reserves job, not the Presidents.

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So you think it's the job of the federal reserve to watch over the stock market, not the SEC's? Interesting. False, but interesting.

The President does not run the SEC either, nor does his administration. Congress has oversight of the SEC.

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False again. The president picks and appoints the commissioners of the SEC. The SEC commission who failed to see this crash coming were all appointed by Bush and approved by the republican senate.

fail....

They got paid more..

NoB

NoDrama said:

BS ALERT BS ALERT BS ALERT

Democrats have just as much to do with this as the republicans.

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lol. I show you exactly why republicans are responsible and you just proclaim it BS even though what I said is 100% factually correct, and you offer no reasoning to back up what you're saying. Typical republican nonsense. When democrats are to blame for the smallest thing you guys are quick to point the finger, but even the most massive and clear conservative fuck up in modern history and then claim that both sides are equally to blame with no reasoning what so ever to back it up. Not buying that at all. Come with reason, or don't say anything at all.

Do you deny the fact that without conservative financial deregulation this would not have been possible? Do you deny the SEC commission watching over the market that were appointed by Bush and approved by a republican senate were watching porn instead of trying to prevent this crash?

You could deny those things, but you'd be flat wrong. You can point to minor issues where the democrats contributed in magnitude to the economic collapse and you would be correct, but you can't point to a single thing the democrats did to enable the bubble/crash itself. You can easily do that with the republicans. Their actions enabled the crash and they failed to see it happening when it was their responsibility to watch over the market. So if you say the dems and republicans are equally responsible then you're just flat out wrong. That's a fact.

NLXSK1 said:

I swear when the whole thing comes crashing down the liberals will still be blaming the Repubicans and Bush rather than the Government and Overspending... Amazing...

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That's because it is their fault. The blame is entirely justified. It wasn't government overspending that caused this crash, it was financial deregulation and failure of regulators to detect the problem. Those are the causes of the problem. Other things may have contributed to the problem making it worse, but you can't deny the real cause of the problem. It's very clear.

Government overspending is a real problem, but it's not this problem. It's just ignorant to claim they are the same problem. It's also not purely a democratic problem. You guys just advocated for 700billion in unfunded government debt spending, so you can't complain about the government overspending and expect to be taken seriously. That's having your cake and eating too.

Dan Kone said:

That's because it is their fault. The blame is entirely justified. It wasn't government overspending that caused this crash, it was financial deregulation and failure of regulators to detect the problem. Those are the causes of the problem. Other things may have contributed to the problem making it worse, but you can't deny the real cause of the problem. It's very clear.

Government overspending is a real problem, but it's not this problem. It's just ignorant to claim they are the same problem. It's also not purely a democratic problem. You guys just advocated for 700billion in unfunded government debt spending, so you can't complain about the government overspending and expect to be taken seriously. That's having your cake and eating too.

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Us Guys? You are again lumping me into a class I am not a part of... You cant see past US/THEM... It will destroy this country.

I am not talking about the last financial crash. I am talking about the crash of the entire economy. The loss of confidence in the dollar and default. Hyperinflation, Bankrupcy, Hunger, disease, riots, death, the total collapse of society... That is where we are headed. And you will probably not be happy until everyone is equally miserable. And it will still be Bush's fault.

But hey, I got my food and my weed and my guns and fuck y'all...

Ever heard about the story about the grashopper and the ant?

The ant slaved away all summer gathering food while the grashopper lounged around doing nothing and making fun of the ant.

Then the winter came and the grashopper had no food or shelter. So the grasshopper went to the ant and said, I have no food or warmth and you have everything.

So the ant killed and ate the grasshopper. The end...

Dan Kone said:

You can point to minor issues where the democrats contributed in magnitude to the economic collapse and you would be correct, but you can't point to a single thing the democrats did to enable the bubble/crash itself. You can easily do that with the republicans. Their actions enabled the crash and they failed to see it happening when it was their responsibility to watch over the market. So if you say the dems and republicans are equally responsible then you're just flat out wrong. That's a fact.

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I thought we were talking about this earlier but let me phrase it a different way. Bleeding hearts that feel that a home is right pushed for subprime lending. The fact that anyone could and did get money caused home prices to artificially rise(bubble.) People who shouldn't have had loans unfortunately/ inevitably defaulted in huge numbers (crash.) And now banks feet are held to the fire so getting credit is very difficult even for qualified buyers. Sure fannie & freddie secured these bad mortages but like Nice Ol Bud said, they paid off somebody. Is it any wonder that when the financial reform bill came through; Fannie and Freddie were relieved of any regulations or restrictions?

Skunk.n'the.Trunk said:

I thought we were talking about this earlier but let me phrase it a different way. Bleeding hearts that feel that a home is right pushed for subprime lending. The fact that anyone could and did get money caused home prices to artificially rise(bubble.) People who shouldn't have had loans unfortunately/ inevitably defaulted in huge numbers (crash.) And now banks feet are held to the fire so getting credit is very difficult even for qualified buyers. Sure fannie & freddie secured these bad mortages but like Nice Ol Bud said, they paid off somebody. Is it any wonder that when the financial reform bill came through; Fannie and Freddie were relieved of any regulations or restrictions?

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I find it strange that a company with such strong ties to the government can make political donations and in fact made very large donations to the Democratic party and Barney Frank in particular. It is curious that they were never dragged before congress like the other financial institutions were... Considering they lost hundreds of billions of dollars to date.

Politics? Naah... couldnt be, it's the Democrats...

NLXSK1 said:

Us Guys? You are again lumping me into a class I am not a part of...

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You are, you're just pretending it's something different. You blindly defend republican (not conservative, not libertarian, not independent, republican) policy and voting regardless of right or wrong, regardless or effect or public will. You quack like a duck.

You cant see past US/THEM... It will destroy this country.

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I just call it like I see it.

You'd be surprised, a lot of people think I'm fairly conservative actually.

I am not talking about the last financial crash. I am talking about the crash of the entire economy. The loss of confidence in the dollar and default. Hyperinflation, Bankrupcy, Hunger, disease, riots, death, the total collapse of society... That is where we are headed. And you will probably not be happy until everyone is equally miserable. And it will still be Bush's fault.

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Actually you were talking about the last financial crash. No one is blaming Bush for forty years of American economic inertia, just the last 8.

But hey, I got my food and my weed and my guns and fuck y'all...

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Fuck yeah man! That's the spirit! Cheers to that!

Skunk.n'the.Trunk said:

I thought we were talking about this earlier but let me phrase it a different way. Bleeding hearts that feel that a home is right pushed for subprime lending.

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Well, some do you're right. But subprime lending wouldn't exist with out conservative ideals, specifically financial deregulation becoming reality. This never could have happened before the late 90's. There were laws against it. Laws that republicans undid.

The fact that anyone could and did get money caused home prices to artificially rise(bubble.) People who shouldn't have had loans unfortunately/ inevitably defaulted in huge numbers (crash.)

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You're correct. But those loans only existed because we deregulated the financial industry to the point where there was no longer consequences for banks handing out bad loans.

And now banks feet are held to the fire so getting credit is very difficult even for qualified buyers.

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I agree that it's overly difficult to get loans, but it's not for the reasons you think. It's a big scam. (a very liberal scam that I highly object to btw) There is a risk free investment scheme for the banks created by Dodd, Frank, and Obama. If you don't know about it let me know and I'll explain it tomorrow when I'm sober.

Sure fannie & freddie secured these bad mortages but like Nice Ol Bud said, they paid off somebody.

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They were two of the groups doing that, but be honest about it, every mortgage bank in the country was doing the same shit. The reason, no risk for the lenders. Why was their no risk? Financial deregulation. None of this could have ever happened in the 90's.

Dan Kone said:

So you think it's the job of the federal reserve to watch over the stock market, not the SEC's? Interesting. False, but interesting.



False again. The president picks and appoints the commissioners of the SEC. The SEC commission who failed to see this crash coming were all appointed by Bush and approved by the republican senate.

fail....

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You said economy not stock market, but I can assure you that its the fed that keeps the stock market from falling.

So the Senate has to approve? hmm well that would be congress, or did you not know that the entire legislative group is called congress? You probably didn't know that we have 2 legislative sections, the House and the Senate, both together are called Congress. Need any more 3rd grade civics instruction that you probably did not receive in your education? They don't teach that stuff anymore and I assume your a young fella because you seem very lost and only believe what you are told to believe. Most Older people who were at one time a hard core liberal tend to find their views change over time and find themselves shifting more and more to the right or at the very least middle road.

Dan Kone said:

Do you deny the fact that without conservative financial deregulation this would not have been possible? Do you deny the SEC commission watching over the market that were appointed by Bush and approved by a republican senate were watching porn instead of trying to prevent this crash?

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I absolutely agree with what you said here, but it isn't a republican vs Democrat issue. Its a stupid Government issue. Its a paid off and corrupt government, where most of the Law makers in this country are in the pockets of the big corporations, dems and repubs alike.


BTW when you say "you guys" WTF do you mean by that? For your info I am not a republican, I just tend to disagree with your partisanship.

The problem is that it is we the people *with our hands out* that are really losing.

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*fixed

Ten Char

NLXSK1 said:

*fixed

Ten Char

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I'll fix it, you can keep yours, OK? All I get is the SS I paid into for 50+ years and a small pension, No handouts here. And now the conservative bastards want to stop the COLA, Making me a little poorer. Everytime the cost of living goes up, I get poorer, not exactly what the program was designed to do.

medicineman said:

I'll fix it, you can keep yours, OK? All I get is the SS I paid into for 50+ years and a small pension, No handouts here. And now the conservative bastards want to stop the COLA, Making me a little poorer. Everytime the cost of living goes up, I get poorer, not exactly what the program was designed to do.

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The SS money that you paid in was stolen and spent by the government a long time ago.

The ponzi scheme that social security has become requires young working people to pay for your monthly check. You arent getting back what you paid in, you are getting what they are paying in and what is being added to the debt.

There is no money, the government spent it all + 13 trillion dollars and promised hundreds of trillions more. They just keep promising and spending more and more and it has ballooned out of control. You do realize that if China decides to stop buying our debt that your checks will stop next month right? Probably your pension checks too... But hey, lets just add multiple more trillions on the back of the camel and pray that it doesnt break.

Dan Kone said:

So you think it's the job of the federal reserve to watch over the stock market, not the SEC's? Interesting. False, but interesting.



False again. The president picks and appoints the commissioners of the SEC. The SEC commission who failed to see this crash coming were all appointed by Bush and approved by the republican senate.

fail....

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I'll tell you where we need regulation...the rating agencies. These mortgages are securitized, rated and then sold. How you package and polish a bunch of turds and call it triple AAA...I don't know...and I've written and pitch book or two for these agencies. Buffet (Obama lover) owns a large stake in Moody's and there had to be some funny business going on to have kept this game going.

An appraiser loses his license or gets thrown in jail for fraud or collaboration beyond and a fair, independent valuation. The S&P's, Fitchs, Moody's ect. are paid by the issuer to put a rating on these issuances and are not held accountable. The economy can move and crash on bonds. One of the biggest problems today is the lack of capital being pumped into the market. This is because securtization is dead and there is no faith in ratings....if subprime ratings are bad...why are the rest good? And 2 is the secondary market, which seemed to be an aftershock to this. Banks can not strictly balance sheet lend to keep up with the demand for our economy. Bottom line, you can call hindsight 20/20, but it was not Bush's fault and the rating agencies need to be getting more heat in all of this. One major problem I have had with the stimulus and the last few years, it that getting the liqudity ramped up in the capital markets has been stagnant. The GSE's FNMA, Freddie and SBA are lending...upside down but lending....but that is it. If you want to point fingers at an administration, this one gets a big fail in even addressing this problem in the economy. I hate to bring up healthcare as a tangent, but why was that the debate and so much time and energy put into it? Whether you support it or not, it should not have been the priority at the time.

Any administration would get a big fail. Democrats and republicans alike are controlled by the very same corporations and individuals. Both parties get their campaign funding from the same sources so neither party can go against these sources. Big Agri, Big Pharma, Big Oil and especially Big Banks and Wall Street. All the rules will enhance those sectors while reducing others. There is soooo much fraud going on and no one is being held accountable, Presidents are being given dictatorial powers that completely contradict the US Constitution. Congress doesn't care about you, they only care about themselves and their next big campaign for re election, they can always vote to spend YOUR money on whatever THEY want.

Here is a good article in Bloomberg today regarding the rating agencies.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-08/credit-ratings-can-t-claim-free-speech-in-law-bringing-risks-to-companies.html

NoDrama said:

Any administration would get a big fail. Democrats and republicans alike are controlled by the very same corporations and individuals. Both parties get their campaign funding from the same sources so neither party can go against these sources. Big Agri, Big Pharma, Big Oil and especially Big Banks and Wall Street. All the rules will enhance those sectors while reducing others. There is soooo much fraud going on and no one is being held accountable, Presidents are being given dictatorial powers that completely contradict the US Constitution. Congress doesn't care about you, they only care about themselves and their next big campaign for re election, they can always vote to spend YOUR money on whatever THEY want.

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How can it be that we are at exact opposites on political idealism, and yet agree on your above statement. What can we do to stem the tide. I am also for reducing government, especially in the "citizen protection" areas. These are just stepping stones to a dictatorship. I was all excited when Obama came in, I actually thought he could make a difference, something akin to Kennedy. Boy was I wrong. The power brokers just racked him up and played 8ball with his ideas, the repubs just stalemated 90% of his agenda and made him a one term president. It will be a miracle, or business as usual if he gets re-elected. I just wonder what the republic will look like if the repubes get full control of the house, senate and the whitehouse. Probably won't be a country worth living in if you make less than 250K. There is nothing I can do to change things. The best thing I can do for me is to quit following politics and enjoy what little of my life I have remaining, unless they take my SS and Pension away, then I'll go postal, it really wouldn't take all that much to set me off. Reducing or eliminating my SS would definently do the trick

medicineman said:

What can we do to stem the tide.

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Vote Ron Paul (libertarian) even if he runs as a republican again. He has the best fiscal and social policies of anyone I know of currently. I know NoDrama agrees. And the best part is the elites in both parties don't like him cause he doesn't conform to party lines and can't be bought out.