What is your faith, path or belief?

WhatAmIDoing said:

So you decide to believe somebody who told you something. That's fine. They can both be equally true.

The greatest proof (for me) that energy can be created is its existence.

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hom36rown said:

They cannot be euqally true....energry is not created or destroyed

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I'm going to have to 'believe' home36rown on this one.

We Love 1 said:

I do believe energy was ONCE created, that was the big bang. Gods creation.

After that I don't believe energy can be created or destroyed.

But it would seem like energy can be created through nuclear reactions when converting mass into energy. A tiny amount of mass can create an enormous amount of energy. If a glass of water was converted into pure energy by combining it with its anti matter it would probably be able to power the worlds electricity needs for 10 years or so.

You know whats cool, that the Earth is actually growing from absorbing the Suns energy and stardust. So gravity is never constant, its always slightly increasing proportional to the amount of added mass to Earth. But it would seem insignificant over the course of an average humans life.

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But that energy could also conversely create that water. No net energy is lost. No net energy is created. Both sides of the equation are equal. It's equal exchange. The form has changed... like money.... Five dollar bills is equal to a single five-dollar bill(not in paper, obviously, but in value).

I use matter and convert it into energy all the time via digestion... the end product is I'm still alive and the excrement is flowing.

Gods are defined with terms like omnipotent, omniscience, omnipresent, etc. These are all infinite attributes. There's is never a way to balance the 'equation'. Infinity is an idea. Using it in math leads to erroneous results. There is no infinite amount of ANYTHING in the universe. Using infinity one can make all kind of illogical statements.

For example, if we state that anything divided by itself is 1...

where i=infinity:
i/i=1

That seems alright... but wait.

(i + i) / i = 1

Ok, sure i + i = i.. so simplified: i/i is still 1, and 1=1!

But wait... we can now split that fraction.

i/i + i/i = 1 or simplified: 2=1 or even 3=1 etc... You can make anything equal anything!! Regardless of equivalence.

Lets try it a different way:

i * 1/i = 1

That looks good, for any number x... x * 1/x = 1.

1/i is .0000...1 which converges to zero. See, if there was an infinite amount of something... then there'd be nothing else. That 1 doesn't exist. Those zeros are infinite. If you manually attempted to solve this you'd never reach an answer. You'd never be able to finish!

Anyway, so:

i * 0 = 1

Now we're really fucked! Do we go with the rule anything times infinity is infinity... or anything times zero is zero?! Either way this equation fails.

TeaTreeOil said:

But that energy could also conversely create that water. No net energy is lost. No net energy is created. Both sides of the equation are equal.

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Exactly right!

I didn't say any energy was created. I said "But it would seem like energy can be created". The key word is "seem". It seems like energy is created when converting mass into energy.

I'd rather take the energy/electricity from a nuclear power plant over a piece of uranium. It SEEMS like energy is just created from a piece of rock. But its proportional to E=MC^2.

C^2 is a BIG number.

TeaTreeOil said:

There is no infinite amount of ANYTHING in the universe. Using infinity one can make all kind of illogical statements.

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There is infinite space, time and Gods love!

Prove Me wrong!

hom36rown said:

why jesus, why not mohammed, or vishnu

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I believe Gods Son is reincarnated at every new age, which is ~2150 years or so. A new age is a change in the Zodiac sign.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=zeitgeist&emb=0&aq=0&oq=zeig#

If You watch the first part of Zeigeist You will realize that these "Gods" all have the same things in common, just different names. You can either believe that these people are either fictional or were real.

I believe Jesus was the last time Gods Son visited the Earth, and I've read about Him so I love Him because I believe He is My heavenly Father. He was the Lamb of God. He came to show Us how much He/God loves Us to the extreme of dying on a cross.

Theres a reason why so many people are Christian, thats because Jesus Christ was/is real.

So thats My rationale. Does that make sense to You?

illusionz1 said:

Well, raised catholic... dating a preacher's daughter throughout high school... I think I've learned to think for myself and with an open mind and the closest thing I think I could be able to illustrate a "Faith" is Taoism.

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Taoism requires no faith, only an understanding of the laws of nature and the universe.

We Love 1 said:

Theres a reason why so many people are Christian, that because Jesus Christ was/is real.

So that My rationale. Does that make sense to You?

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oh so you believe it because a lot of other people believe...I get it. So you just go along with everyone else with no real reasoning behind it. Funny how you throw the word sheep around so much.

hom36rown said:

oh so you believe it because a lot of other people believe....

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Jesus is real. No doubt about it. If You don't believe than its your loss buddy.

Same as George Washington was real except Jesus is Lord and lives eternally.

"Whos the person in your avatar?

Are you a poser?

Why sport around Jesus for your avatar when you don't believe?

"

if you'll look closely you'll hes on a dollar bill, you know, mocking christianity. Also its an album cover...notcie how it says dead kennedys at the top. It was called in god we trust inc.

jesus may or may not have been real, but how do you know he is the son of god. How do you know Mohammada is not a profit, or joseph smith, or that vishnu isnt a real god, or zeus. Why do you believe in chriastianity's fairytale but not the other ones.

hom36rown said:

jesus may or may not have been real,

Why do you believe in chriastianity's fairytale but not the other ones.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.D.

Anno Domini (sometimes spelled Anno Domine, abbreviated as AD or A.D.) and Before Christ (abbreviated as BC or B.C.) are designations used to number years in the Julian and Gregorian calendars. The calendar era that they refer to is based on the traditionally reckoned year of the conception or birth of Jesus Christ, with AD denoting years after the start of this epoch, and BC denoting years before the start of this epoch. There is no year zero in this scheme, so the year AD 1 immediately follows the year 1 BC.



The whole world bases their time on the birth of Jesus Christ.

So I can conclude that unless the whole world is basing their dates and time on a nonexisting person than I'll be glad to admit that I'm wrong about Jesus too.

That is not proof of his existence, but thats irrelevenat. Like I said he may be a real person, but what leads you to believe he is the son of god?

WhatAmIDoing said:

Hey puff.

While you argue that humans are trying to help other animals understand things the way we do, why are we not trying to understand things the way other animals do?

Is it because we are "better" than them?

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I do think that we are NOT better than animals. Personally, I don't see them stealin each other's young and raping them and cutting them into bits for kicks, pretty good sign they are better than us actually.

But I train horses, and while I am sure most humans are preoccupied with purse brands and Tommy Fuckin Hillfinger, I am not. I DO understand why animals function as they do (no 'try' to it) and I am a very good horse trainer cuz I work in the parameters of the animals' psychology.


But most humans don't think humans are animals. I do, which is why I don't understand why other animals aren't 'evolving' as we are, if the process is so, erhm, 'natural'...............

We Love 1 said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.D.

Anno Domini (sometimes spelled Anno Domine, abbreviated as AD or A.D.) and Before Christ (abbreviated as BC or B.C.) are designations used to number years in the Julian and Gregorian calendars. The calendar era that they refer to is based on the traditionally reckoned year of the conception or birth of Jesus Christ, with AD denoting years after the start of this epoch, and BC denoting years before the start of this epoch. There is no year zero in this scheme, so the year AD 1 immediately follows the year 1 BC.



The whole world bases their time on the birth of Jesus Christ.

So I can conclude that unless the whole world is basing their dates and time on a nonexisting person than I'll be glad to admit that I'm wrong about Jesus too.

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It is well known that that designation was set up by a church-and-state-run operation, called the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, and up till recently scholars were nice enuff to use it.

THere is NO historical, archeological data to support ANYTHING in the Bible. That is one of the main reasons that Before Common Era is used rather than BC, it has long been known that it is not a specific time reference, reguardless of what term you use.

And I for one find your attitude VERY offensive, as would Christ. His message was NEVER used to put down, or attack, or judge, and since YOU have used it so it is YOU who will be up for a heavenly ass reamin, for someone using 'love' in your avatar you have a LOOOOOOOOOONG way to go to learn what it truly means. You shame the name of Jesus with your hate and intolerance.

We Love 1 said:

Exactly right!

I didn't say any energy was created. I said "But it would seem like energy can be created". The key word is "seem". It seems like energy is created when converting mass into energy.

I'd rather take the energy/electricity from a nuclear power plant over a piece of uranium. It SEEMS like energy is just created from a piece of rock. But its proportional to E=MC^2.

C^2 is a BIG number.



There is infinite space, time and Gods love!

Prove Me wrong!

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If space where infinite there would be only space. I use to think like that(back in HS, even). Remember how .000...1 (infinite zeros, followed by a 1, or million or billions, etc... doesn't matter we never 'reach' it) equals zero? It's the same exact case. Infinite space... and that 1(matter/energy) doesn't exist!

Time was created based on observation of Earth's revolution and rotation. I suspect that this will eventually end.... So time in that sense is not infinite. Time in the universe (Planck time) is not infinite either, it may 'tend to' infinite, but being a really, really, really, really, really(ok, you got the point) massive quantity, versus infinity... is like comparing apples and oranges. You still have an infinite amount between any finite amount and infinite amount. That is: infinity minus 9,999,999,999,999,999..(ends eventually) = infinity.

I've never understood this concept people refer to as 'God's love'. When a serial killer strikes again... is that 'God's love'? When parents refuse to seek medical help for their daughter and choose to pray instead... and their daughter dies... is that 'God's love'? When a rapist gets his 'fix'... is that 'God's love'? How about pedophiles? When America decides to bomb (read: Shock and Awe, Bush put it) a nation and then civilians... innocent men, women, and children die horribly... is that 'God's love'? If slavery is more prolific than any time in known history and most of them are children... is that 'God's love'? When humans are treated like property and bought and sold for numerous unsavory reasons.... Where the fuck is this 'God's love'?! Why are all the bad things in life attributed to Man. While all the good things get attributed to God?! Your double-standard is fallacious!

"I pushed-a button and elected him to office and-a he pushed a buttoned and-a dropped the bomb. You pushed-a button and can watch it on the television. Those motha fuckas didn't last too long.... Trading in my god for this war, and he signs his name with a capitol G." - NIN - Capitol G

Ultimate creator... ultimate responsibility. Ultimate foresight. According to believers in this perfect all-powerful being called God(Yehwah, Allah, Zeus, whatever). Then by extension all of his creation is also perfect. Or can your god falter, make mistakes... act 'human'? I must ask you a question. Then why call it God?

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" -Epicurus

Come on! His first mistake was clearly a talking snake.

Sorry to inform we love, but there are no references to Jesus other than using the Bible as a source.

Who wrote the bible? Names please? When was it written? Dates please? There is not a single eyewitness account of Jesus in the bible that is not hear say. Not one.


I'm very very sure George Washington existed. Jesus is a myth until anyone can prove otherwise..... I'm waiting.

Energy can only be transformed, not destroyed. This is making me pissed at the publik skool system.... folks, this is 6th grade stuff when I was in school.


out.

There is most def infinite time and space.

What was before the "begginning of time"?

Where does space end, and whats beyond that?

I beleive time = space, which is infinite.

Since we have not developed the scientific knowledge to unravel the co relationship intertwining time and space, nothing can be stated with certainty,.....only time will tell.. . Something for future generations to work out...long after our atoms have dispersed and transformed.


out.

Time is not days, weeks, etc(we define this amounts based on rates, rotations and revolutions).This sort of time is based on time as a *rate of change*. It's like gravity is a rate of attraction between masses, light decay rates as distance increases, etc. It's neither constant or infinite. It may be applied infinitely(always has, always will, as far as we know) like gravity, etc.. that is, so long as the universe has existed time has existed with(in) it. To call gravity itself infinite would require infinite mass.

If time(amount, as we measure days/hours/etc) were infinite there'd be no distinction between one moment and another(no relativity). Things would never change. Now this amount tending towards infinity is a whole nother matter. It's still quantifiable, and distinctions are possible.

TeaTreeOil said:

Time is not days, weeks, etc(we define this amounts based on rates, rotations and revolutions).This sort of time is based on time as a *rate of change*. It's like gravity is a rate of attraction between masses, light decay rates as distance increases, etc. It's neither constant or infinite. It may be applied infinitely(always has, always will, as far as we know) like gravity, etc.. that is, so long as the universe has existed time has existed with(in) it. To call gravity itself infinite would require infinite mass.

If time(amount, as we measure days/hours/etc) were infinite there'd be no distinction between one moment and another(no relativity). Things would never change. Now this amount tending towards infinity is a whole nother matter. It's still quantifiable, and distinctions are possible.

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As long as there has been space there has been time. Even before the big bang there was space and therefor time. Even if all the stars in the sky burnt out, there would still be infinite space and therefor infinite time.

TeaTreeOil said:

Time is not days, weeks, etc

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Yes it is, measurements of time. Time is a component of a measuring system used to sequence events, to compare the durations of events and the intervals between them, and to quantify the motions of objects. The rate/quantity that We measure time is in seconds, hours, days, weeks, etc.

TeaTreeOil said:

To call gravity itself infinite would require infinite mass.

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I never implied that gravity is infinite. If something had infinite gravity than it would be a point of singularity with everything in it. Hard to imagine.

TeaTreeOil said:

If time(amount, as we measure days/hours/etc) were infinite there'd be no distinction between one moment and another(no relativity)..

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There are infinite numbers but yet We are still able to measure things inbetween the infinites, and the same holds true to time.

We can pick out any number between the infinites and use that as a reference point. Just as We used the birth of Jesus Christ to start Our current dating system inbetween the everlasting flow of time.

If time was an eternal flow of water in a stream, We would only be able to measure how much has passed since We picked a referance point somewhere inbetween. Than We would effectivly be able to measure the flow of time from this point. But any amount of measured time will be nil compared to the everlasting flow. Just as any number compared to infinity is nil.

Hmmm...

Even though energy cannot be created or destroyed that does not mean that time has always existed.

The energy that we now see as time could have been something else before "space-time" was created (transformed)

AND seeing as we can measure how large our universe is.. I am pretty sure it is not infinite... and since space is not infinite time cannot be either.

Just remember that the energy that makes up our universe might not have always been in the forms we see them now, but in different forms, and over time were transformed into the concepts we see now in our universe.

and Puff.. in regard to the evolution of animals thing... perhaps animals have finished evolving, and that is why they do not chop up their young and such... we just have a long way to go

We Love 1 said:

As long as there has been space there has been time. Even before the big bang there was space and therefor time. Even if all the stars in the sky burnt out, there would still be infinite space and therefor infinite time.



Yes it is, measurements of time. Time is a component of a measuring system used to sequence events, to compare the durations of events and the intervals between them, and to quantify the motions of objects. The rate/quantity that We measure time is in seconds, hours, days, weeks, etc.



I never implied that gravity is infinite. If something had infinite gravity than it would be a point of singularity with everything in it. Hard to imagine.




There are infinite numbers but yet We are still able to measure things inbetween the infinites, and the same holds true to time.

We can pick out any number between the infinites and use that as a reference point. Just as We used the birth of Jesus Christ to start Our current dating system inbetween the everlasting flow of time.

If time was an eternal flow of water in a stream, We would only be able to measure how much has passed since We picked a referance point somewhere inbetween. Than We would effectivly be able to measure the flow of time from this point. But any amount of measured time will be nil compared to the everlasting flow. Just as any number compared to infinity is nil.

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I see you just blew off my question. BAAAAAA