Why don't gays/lesbians deserve to have the right to be married?

Roseman · Jul 30, 2009

If the definition of MARRIAGE is changed from a religious union or civil union between a man and a woman, to a perverted union between the same two sexes, then whole new doors are opened. Like I have my civil rights to marry my dog., don't I? Or I have the civil right to marry my 12 year old niece?

jiggs2269 · Jul 30, 2009

doobnVA said:
Simple? Since when is moving to a new state "simple"? Especially NOW with it being so hard to find a job, most people are stuck where they are.

Have you ever tried to find a job in another state? Was flying (or driving) back and forth across the country for job interviews "simple"? How about finding a place to live from halfway across the country. Was that "simple" too?

Do you have ANY IDEA how much money it costs to move a whole house full of stuff (and people) to another state?

Simple, my ass.

I love these dumb kids who think everyone can just pack up and move across country on a fucking WHIM. They're right up there with the kids who think all coffee comes from Starbucks at $8 a cup.

You can say all the bullshit you want buddy. First off, I'm not a kid. I'm well into the legal drinking age. And second. It's cool if you wanna eccept your pitiful existance. But if anyone wants to change their life they can. No one said it was easy. The decision is simple. Not the path it takes to get there. Anything in life that's worth having isn't easy.

Of course it takes money to move, I wanted to move in state over the summer and it didn't happen. I also am broke. But does it mean I'm stuck. Hell no! I just have to wait a little longer and when I finaly get it, it will be all the much more sweet. I used to be like you. Always thinking it could never happen. Making excuses for myself and the people around,. The sad news is you make your own reality. If you think you're stuck, then you're gonna b stuck. Sure people get in funks. Sure people lose their jobs. Do you remember a thing call the great depression? Do you know what a Hooverville is? if not look it up. That was the worst time for money. But guess what? They came back. They made back their money and were able to do what needed to be done to survive. Life goes on. Now, do you see any Hoovervilles around where you live? I sure as hell don't.

Look at all the rock stars that came out to cali, from all over the country and world, with nothing in their pocket and made it. I'm from califonia and I know how expensive it is to live here. But both sides of my granparents, and my girls family all came out here with nothing and guess what? We were able to recieve a decent education and grow up to go to colleges and have a great career. You may not be able benefit from your decision right at this moment or possibly ever in your life. (That would suck though.) But do you really want your kids and their kids to be "Stuck" too?

So fuck everyone who makes excuses for themselves. Go ahead and stay stuck. While your at it just dig a hole and burry yourselves because that's where you're gonna stay. :hump:

P.s. Douche bag. I've got a yard long dick, a bucket of balls and enough hair on my ass to weave and indian blanket. :spew:

I aint no kid, I'm a man motha fucka.

doobnVA · Jul 30, 2009

jiggs2269 said:
You can say all the bullshit you want buddy. First off, I'm not a kid. I'm well into the legal drinking age. And second. It's cool if you wanna eccept your pitiful existance. But if anyone wants to change their life they can. No one said it was easy. The decision is simple. Not the path it takes to get there. Anything in life that's worth having isn't easy.

Of course it takes money to move, I wanted to move in state over the summer and it didn't happen. I also am broke. But does it mean I'm stuck. Hell no! I just have to wait a little longer and when I finaly get it, it will be all the much more sweet. I used to be like you. Always thinking it could never happen. Making excuses for myself and the people around,. The sad news is you make your own reality. If you think you're stuck, then you're gonna b stuck. Sure people get in funks. Sure people lose their jobs. Do you remember a thing call the great depression? Do you know what a Hooverville is? if not look it up. That was the worst time for money. But guess what? They came back. They made back their money and were able to do what needed to be done to survive. Life goes on. Now, do you see any Hoovervilles around where you live? I sure as hell don't.

Look at all the rock stars that came out to cali, from all over the country and world, with nothing in their pocket and made it. I'm from califonia and I know how expensive it is to live here. But both sides of my granparents, and my girls family all came out here with nothing and guess what? We were able to recieve a decent education and grow up to go to colleges and have a great career. You may not be able benefit from your decision right at this moment or possibly ever in your life. (That would suck though.) But do you really want your kids and their kids to be "Stuck" too?

So fuck everyone who makes excuses for themselves. Go ahead and stay stuck. While your at it just dig a hole and burry yourselves because that's where you're gonna stay.

P.s. Douche bag. I've got a yard long dick, a bucket of balls and enough hair on my ass to weave and indian blanket. I aint no kid, I'm a man motha fucka.

You sure have the mentality of a ten-year-old, despite how hairy your ass might be.

Not having a job or a place to live isn't an EXCUSE for not moving out of state, it's a pretty VALID REASON for any forward-thinking, responsible person with a family to think about.

Again, there is nothing "simple" about picking up your life and moving it to another state, and it shouldn't be necessary in the first place because we're talking about RIGHTS that everyone should enjoy regardless of what state they live in.

By the way, there are only NINE states in the US that grant the full rights of marriage to same-sex couples in a civil union.

I'd rather be a douchebag than have a hairy ass, that's for sure. As for the "hoovervilles", yes, they exist all over the country, pretty much anywhere there are homeless people. If I get the chance, I'll get a picture of the homeless "tent city" in the center of town here so you can see for yourself.

EDIT: here's a good shot of a Hooverville over in your neck of the woods.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/us/26tents.html

Dystopia · Jul 30, 2009

Roseman said:
If the definition of MARRIAGE is changed from a religious union or civil union between a man and a woman, to a perverted union between the same two sexes, then whole new doors are opened. Like I have my civil rights to marry my dog., don't I? Or I have the civil right to marry my 12 year old niece?

You make no sense; if homosexuality is legal and beastiality and pedophilia are not, then where's the slippery slope? Might as well say that letting people hunt animals with a rifle will lead to people hunting humans with a bazooka.

Just say homosexuals make you want to puke and because you don't like them they shouldn't get married and be done with it. Don't make up bullshit, it weakens your argument. :peace:

t@intshredder · Jul 30, 2009

Roseman said:
If the definition of MARRIAGE is changed from a religious union or civil union between a man and a woman, to a perverted union between the same two sexes, then whole new doors are opened. Like I have my civil rights to marry my dog., don't I? Or I have the civil right to marry my 12 year old niece?

You're comparing gay marriage to bestiality and incest? I knew you were a jesus freak, but I didn't realize you had brain damage. :peace:

Roseman · Jul 30, 2009

Dystopia said:
You make no sense; if homosexuality is legal and beastiality and pedophilia are not, then where's the slippery slope? Might as well say that letting people hunt animals with a rifle will lead to people hunting humans with a bazooka.

Just say homosexuals make you want to puke and because you don't like them they shouldn't get married and be done with it. Don't make up bullshit, it weakens your argument.

I was just saying if we going to change the definition of marrige from what it has been for the past 200 or more years, then the door is being opened to change it even more drastically. If someone has the civil right to demand that it be changed,then the beastalitist and the pedip[hile have the same right.

In my state, homosexuallity IS against the law, they call it sodomy, and in my state homo-marriage is against the law too.

Roseman · Jul 30, 2009

t@intshredder said:
You're comparing gay marriage to bestiality and incest?

they are all perverted sex acts and illegal in most states.

I am comparing perverted illegal sex acts.

t@intshredder · Jul 30, 2009

Roseman said:
they are all perverted sex acts and illegal in most states.

I am comparing perverted illegal sex acts.

Not for long, buddy. It's going to be legal all over soon enough. It's called progress. My state is familiar with it because I vote for non-prejudiced public officials. :peace:

Boogaloo Bud · Jul 30, 2009

Roseman said:
they are all perverted sex acts and illegal in most states.

I am comparing perverted illegal sex acts.

What you don't understand is homosexuality isn't something that can be helped. Your either gay or your not and if you are then there is nothing you can do about it. It's been proven that it's not a choice, but a way people are made.

If god didn't want homosexuality then why does he make it impossible for these people to be anything but?

By the way, I thought god was the only one to judge people?? I'm sure he would be perfectly happy sending homosexuals who live a good life to hell but accept a person who is prejudist and calls people freaks to heaven........

And this doesn't have anything to do with me believing in god or not. I just get pissed when I see a hypocritical religous person. They say that homosexuality is wrong by the bible but isn't judging and discriminating also wrong? You can't pick and choose....

jiggs2269 · Jul 30, 2009

doobnVA said:
You sure have the mentality of a ten-year-old, despite how hairy your ass might be.

Not having a job or a place to live isn't an EXCUSE for not moving out of state, it's a pretty VALID REASON for any forward-thinking, responsible person with a family to think about.

Again, there is nothing "simple" about picking up your life and moving it to another state, and it shouldn't be necessary in the first place because we're talking about RIGHTS that everyone should enjoy regardless of what state they live in.

By the way, there are only NINE states in the US that grant the full rights of marriage to same-sex couples in a civil union.

I'd rather be a douchebag than have a hairy ass, that's for sure. As for the "hoovervilles", yes, they exist all over the country, pretty much anywhere there are homeless people. If I get the chance, I'll get a picture of the homeless "tent city" in the center of town here so you can see for yourself.

EDIT: here's a good shot of a Hooverville over in your neck of the woods.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/us/26tents.html

Look, you have some good points. I will agree with you that yeah there are homeless cities and yeah it's difficult for families to move but we're in the mess mess because of everyone's attributed equally. Even myself by taking out loans that I can't now pay back because of loss of business. Probably bit off more than I can chew. I took a look at that picture, you linked, and I saw that most of those people have 2 working legs. And they have equpiment. Walk you happy ass out of a bad situation or just stay there and hope things get better. As far as families are concerned, maybe you can't move right now. Or maybe never. But if our kids walk away from this disaster and repeat the same stupid actions that we have made then we have failed. If our kids will still make the same decisions we did then in about 20 years they'll be in the same boat. Or we can show them we can overcome this shit and we will be stronger for it. I tell you if I lost my job and was forced to live in a tent, I would march on up to the hills and do some real tent living. No matter how long it took me to get there I would get there. I wouldn't just find some over pass to live under. We are all free men to do what how we please. If they wish to live in a populated town and live off of rations that were given to them, then that's there choice. But I'd like to earn my food. Only a person who fights for their life and to make it better will be the one who really has mastered freedom.

It is our duty as human beings to be kind to one another and look after eachother. But if you can't look after yourself in the first place then that's the problem. Not too many people will take responsibilty for their own actions. They think the govt should take care of us. When that happens we lose our rights. Don't get me wrong it would be kinda cool to let someone else feed me and cloth me and take care of all my reaponsibilties but i'm not 4 anymore. How many rights does a 4 years practice. Freedom of speach and that's about it. When we go on walefare and let them make our decisions for us then we forfit our rights. "Never bite the hands that feeds you," I believe is how the expression goes. You can't ask the government to do everything for you and then say, "well now I want the right to do this or that." They wont let you or they'll say, "Yeah you can do that but we wont take care of you anymore." Now lets look at this from a different side. If a chid, whos is fed, clothed and sheltered by their parents, starts swearing and cursing at them, they'll tell him to stop and he doesn't because he thinks he has the right to do so. Then he gets grounded. But he doesn't like being grounded so he runs away so he can be free. Now in order to obtain freedom he has given up food, shelter and security. Now he has the right to say whatever he wants but also he has to deal with the consiquences. It'll be hard. It's always hard growing up alone on the street as a kid but people do it because that's there choice. In order for us to be free we need to rid ourselves of this govt, finacial institutions, and the security they provide for us. In order to gain something, something must be given up. That's the law of the universe. Do me a favor and read the book "The Secret," It'll change your life. Not that many people realize their own ability to overcome adversity. We can do it and yes you can do it. Just have faith. And if you would like to comment on faith you can check out my thread called, "G.O.D. Good Orderly Direction."

P.s. I'm sorry for the name calling. I've lost site of my logical side for minute. I like to ba able to convey my messages as clearly and professionally as possible. I've been worked up from all the other arguments I've been in. I am truely sorry my friend.

Roseman · Jul 30, 2009

Boogaloo Bud said:
What you don't understand is homosexuality isn't something that can be helped. Your either gay or your not and if you are then there is nothing you can do about it. It's been proven that it's not a choice, but a way people are made.

If god didn't want homosexuality then why does he make it impossible for these people to be anything but?

The topic wasn''t being a homosexual, the topic was allowing homos to legally marry. There is homosexuality in monkeys and porpoises, so I understand it is normal . Heck, I have perversions myself, we all do. But I hide mine in the bedroom, instead of waving them around like a flag.

By the way, I thought god was the only one to judge people??

Thats right,, but he doesn't legislate civil laws. I'm sure he would be perfectly happy sending homosexuals who live a good life to hell but accept a person who is prejudist and calls people freaks to heaven........

And this doesn't have anything to do with me believing in god or not. I just get pissed when I see a hypocritical religous person. They say that homosexuality is wrong by the bible but isn't judging and discriminating also wrong? You can't pick and choose....

I didn't mention the Bible, nor judge them. I expressed my opinion that I think if the laws and definitons about marriage are changed, then we're opening the door for some even more changes.

Do you judge and discriminate against pediphiles?

and if the Bible gives rules for owning slaves, (and it does) and for being a good slave (and it does) I don't consider the Bible a good reference for homosexuality.

Alot of people sure are putting words in my statement that I didn't make here.

I'll unsubscribe and let the qays argue about it.

Bob Dylan said it. THE TIMES, THEY ARE A CHANGING.

GrowTech · Jul 30, 2009

t@intshredder said:
They can be better role model's than some straight parents I know.

My brother in law is gay. He and his boyfriend have been together for 5 years and they are the most well rounded responsible people I have ever met. They will make awesome parents one day.

Sad I can't say the same for ANY of my straight friends/family. :roll:

purplekitty7772008 · Jul 30, 2009

hom36rown said:
So by your logic, infertile women should not be able to marry. And calling homosexuality immoral is just stupid. How are two guys or two girls getting married hurting anyone?

thats what I said. :-|

jiggs2269 said:
I'm the one who spawned this thread by my comment in the "should guns be illigal?" thread. In my defense I was mearly pointing out that you can't change the definition of a word. Period. The word "marriage" is difined as a "union of a MAN and WOMAN, HUSBAND and WIFE under the law or religious ceromony. And I stated that they DO have all the same rights that straight people have. They get all the same tax benefits and all that garbage when they under go a civil union made possible by the state of California. They just don't call it marriage. That's the only difference. For example if a jewish girl comes from a very trditional family and wants to marry a non jewish boy then there will be some comotion. The family will become prejudice against the man. That sucks but by tradtional jewish standards they have to marry full blooded jews. Now because the man is not jewish, does that mean he has the right to "protest?" Yes he does! Does that mean the family will change their mind. Probably not. Tradition will supersede in this situation. Marriage happens to be a straight tradition.

My aunt is a single mother of 2 children. About 5 years after her marriage ended she came out and said that she was a lesbian. She went to Hawaii, got "married," came back, lived her life and has never been happier. My little cousins are subject to ridicule every day because their mom prefers women to guys. It really pisses me off when I see that shit because I'm not a gay hater. If you were to ask my aunt right now if she feels oppressed because of her sexual orrientation, she would laugh at you.

Now about this CA ban on gay marriage is a big concern to some people. Frankly all the gays that I've really sat down and had a discussion about this have all said, "I really don't give a fuck." Including my aunt. And to some they are really pissed off. My whole statement was, is the ban on marriage really about equal rights or is it about a word? The word "Marriage" was invented before anyone ever though about uniting the same sex under GOD. That just wasn't happening when the english language was invented. I'm pretty sure there were gay people back then. Actually I know there was. There's been reports of the romans having bisexual tendancies. But you weren't gay unless you took it. That is seriously what they believed. They might have had a word that incorperated same sex unions with opposite sex unions. Unfortunately it wasn't the english word, "marriage," which was probably made by some preist or pope who didn't consider same sex unions when they making up english words. It's about a word! Let's make up a new word and use that to incorperate EVERYONE! Then we'll have equality. Let's move foward and invent and evolve. Not go backwards and try to change something that's said and done. New topic!

All of this is about being discriminated against. There is no need
to make up a new word just for people with different preferences than
most. That would just seperate us more in my eyes. Don't throw
gays/lesbians on the other side of the fence with a "new" word
making feel alienated from the rest of america. All I'm saying is
let them have the same rights that hetero's share. What's so hard about
letting them have what we have?

001 said:
no they shouldn't as marriage is a religious thing that is done & witnesses in the eyes of god... its one of gods commandments to keep a family unit holy and the love between a man and a woman holy....

homosexuality is an abomination in the bible so no how can they be allowed to take part in a religious seromony?
its a slap in the face of god in my eyes.... any priest who marryes gays are satanic,,,, p.s most priest are satanic anyway and are homo/pedofiles

its thier agender to marry.....

deep subject I guess

So if I don't believe in God I shouldn't have the right to be married?
I don't think homosexuals give a crap about what the bible says.
They know how they feel and who they're attracted to, they're not

going to sit there and let a thousand year old book thats been rewritten
too many times to count dictate their lives and how they should live.

PVS said:
if a substantial enough percentage of people do not subscribe to a standard, then its hardly something one can just call "moral" or "immoral". personally i think a great immorality is to judge and condemn others when they are of no harm to others.

either way, standing by and allowing your government to deny rights to one group while granting them to another sets a dangerous precedent. marriage is not a privilege granted to us, its our right. the second we forget that we are one step closer to.........ohhhhhh i almost godwin'd the thread. that was close

Exactly. When the gov't knows they can get away with that, they
will just keep going.

And totally agree with you. Just because someone is different from
the "normal" culture, doesn't mean they are immoral.

Everything about us black people were once considered immoral.
Why? Because we were different, and we were the minority.

People are always scared of something or someone that is different
than them. So they act on that fear by doing things that aren't
so great.

SmokingPiranhaPlants said:
Personally, I think marriage is a joke. Homo-bashers are always defending their arguements with the claim that they're "protecting the sanctity of marriage." How sacred is marriage, exactly? Is it sacred for some drunk guy in Las Vegas to marry a stripper he just met? They're a straight man and a straight woman, so it must be OK. Let me clue you in: the sanctity of marriage is a lost cause. Most marriages only last, like, five years anyway.

Now as for gay marriage, why shouldn't they take a shot at holy matrimony? Most homosexual couples have to fight tooth & nail to get married. They aren't just tying the knot because they've been together awhile and "Hell, why not?" These people have to fight for something that other people get on a whim just because they're sexuallity is concurrent to typical public morals.

The truth is, people's opinions of homosexuals shouldn't define the rights of homosexuals. America was based on the concept that ALL PEOPLE WERE CREATED EQUALLY. Where's the equallity in denying someone's rights because they're different. It's ridiculous.

And will people PLEASE stop comparing gay marriage to animal marriage?! Are you saying that if someone's sexual orientation is different from your own, that makes them ANIMALS? The ignorance that keeps gay marriage illegal is the same ignorance that keep marijuana illegal. It's DIFFERENT so it must be BAD. Is this what your so-called "God" is teaching you? If someone doesn't strictly adhere to the little black book that God wrote (if you can't tell, I'm an atheist) then you should treat them like an animal? People please. Think rationally.

This is just a case of "I think that's gross, so you shouldn't get to do it." That's all this is. But using this same logic, I could say:

"I like milk chocolate but I don't like dark chocolate, SO LETS OUTLAW DARK CHOCOLATE AND MAKE IT ILLEGAL FOR PEOPLE TO EAT IT."

Sounds stupid, right? Now lets put that reasoning into context:

"I'm a man and I'd like to marry a woman, but I wouldn't want to marry another man, SO LETS OUTLAW SAME-SEX MARRIAGE."
Now, I for one thinks this also sounds stupid, but apperantly there are those of you here who thinks this is a perfectly rational way of thinking. So let me put this in terms you can understand:

"The issue of gay marriage has caused a lot of friction between Americans lately and I'm tired of it, SO LETS OUTLAW ALL MARRIAGE. IF GAYS CAN'T MARRY, THEN NO ONE CAN MARRY."
If you're absolutely hell-bent on keeping gays from marrying, then you can't marry either.

It's only fair.

I want to cry. This is SOOOOO right and perfectly written.

Its what I've been saying all along. Couldn't have said that ANY better
than that. :clap:

t@intshredder said:
Marriage in the US is a legal status and has nothing to do with religion.
According to your logic, it should be illegal for atheists to marry.

Apparently...this is all about whats in the bible for most people
who don't agree on this matter.

jiggs2269 said:
Yes in some jurisdictions it has been adopted. And I checked the "Oxford" dictionary and there was no mention of man and man or woman and woman. The word "marriage" comes from the old french word "Marier," or the latin word "Maritus" which again means husband or wife. Lady and man. It's just a word and for the millionth fucking time!, they have all the same rights as every one else! They are not restricted from doing anything or going anywhere they want. The only people that are a threat to them are the ones who feel that a gay persons lifestyle will some how effect their life. A gay couple can get united under the eyes of the law. It's just not called a marriage. It's called being united. Then there life partner can get on their benefits from work, they can be claimed on the others taxes blah blah blah...

I have never had a gay person tell they feel oppressed or left out. I live in the S.F. bay area, the birth place of free gay love. I have even been to a few gay pride parades. They're fun, if you don't mind being hit on by a bunch of mo's, and I go to show my support of there lifestyle. It's fine with me what they do and how they live there lives. What's not fine with me is how so many self righteous peolpe feel they have to protest every day because of the self made dilussion that they have no rights. And that goes for EVERYONE.

To further prove my point I think we should start a petition. The word "American" should not only include those born i the u.s. but those who share the same ideals as the u.s. Let's change the definition so we can include everyone. I don't want any one to get their feelings hurt because we said they can't be "American." But what if some one really really wanted to be an American? There are steps to becoming American now. You either are born here or you wait for your green card. This definition was pulled straight from dictionary.com. "American," noun 4.a citizen of the United States of America.5.a native or inhabitant of the Western Hemisphere.6.an Indian of North or South America.7.American English. a steam locomotive having a four-wheeled front truck, four driving wheels, and no rear truck

Hell, we can
change that. Who cares about what the actual definition is. All we need, is to be labled the same. That's all that matters right? (FYO: this last paragraph was all sarcasm.)

Now if we were all able to get "married" then what else would the gay and lesbian communities have to protest about? Oh I'm sure they'll find something later on. And if they don't then someone else will. It's a vicious cycle that wont end until EVERYONE is happy. You can't please evryone all the time and the sooner everyone realizes that then the better off we'll be. People are natually displeased by whatever they see. Then they talk to someone else who feels the same way and next thing you know the snowball effect begins, and then you get a buch of people talking about the meaning of a word on a pot forum.

The last thing that I'm gonna say is if anyone ever tries to tell me that gays don't have the same rights as straights I'm gonna flip my lid. My aunt, who I had mentioned in my last post, is the exact opposite of what you would call, "Powerless." Have any of you heard of a little company called Oracle? Well she happens to be the C.F.O. In this "Straight Male dominated," society she's found a way around it. There are always ways to get around the system. You just have to be smart and willing to put in the effort. And letting a little word like, "Marriage" ruin your day, just because the defintion doesn't include you, sounds like you have your own personal issues.

Sorry jiggs....but I didn't feel like reading all of that. I'm sorry....
I really am.

Dystopia said:
To me, gay marriage comes down to one and only one thing (at least here in the U.S.): is marriage a RIGHT? If it is a right (and there is plenty of case history to support this) then it cannot be denied to ANY law abiding-citizen. Case over, screw you California (Prop 8 ) and the horse you rode in on, the United States Constitution reigns supreme.

EVERYTHING else is a smokescreen put up by religion, homophobes, and extremists to, as James Madison would put it, enflame the passions most unfriendly to order and concord and to divert the publics reason from the true merits of the question so that the PASSIONS, therefore, not the REASON, of the public would sit in judgment.

Homosexuals have the same rights under domestic partnerships! Equal but separate never has and never will pass muster.

Its Gods will! God has gone against the Constitution many times and lost: Womens Suffrage, interracial marriage, segregation, etc. Either He got over it or He is really for equal rights.

Its an abomination! Maybe, but its legal (at least here in California).

Its tradition! Traditions change; slavery, the oppression of women, and a host of other things that have changed are based on traditions that go back to the beginning of recorded history. Marriage traditions themselves have changed many times since the beginning of recorded history.

Gay marriage will be taught in school! Uh, isnt the purpose of education to teach age-appropriate R-E-A-L-I-T-Y? If you dont want gay marriage to be taught, then dont teach marriage the only reason it is taught now is because of the Churchs agenda to push the idea that chastity has boundaries and sex is to be only between a man and a woman lawfully married.

Homosexuality is a choice! Not relevant to the same-sex marriage issue. For instance, being a Christian is a choiceit doesnt matter if Christianity is ultimately THE reality or truthwhat matters is that Christian's think it is reality and truththerefore, it IS reality to them. While many might say that being a Christian is a psychological disorder that is the result of brainwashing or the way you were indoctrinated and is a perversion of reality, etc, etc, etc, I dont think that a true Christian feels they have any choice but to believe the way they do. You can probably see where Im going with this: it doesnt matter if homosexuality is a choice or notwhat matters is that most homosexuals think they have no choicethat is their reality.

Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true. ~ Demosthenes

We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are. ~ Anais Nin

Ultimately, I dont think that a homosexual should be stripped of their right to marry because it may be a choice, anymore than I would want to strip a Christian of any of their rights because of their choice to be a Christian.

All of these things are not relevant to the one issue that is paramount: is marriage a right? And if it is a right, should it be denied to any LAW-ABIDING citizen of the United States? My stance is this: homosexuality is not illegal -> we live in a free country that dictates that all law-abiding citizens must abide by the Constitution -> the Constitution says we cannot deny rights to ANY law-abiding citizens -> marriage is a right (as defined by precedent) -> therefore we MUST give homosexuals the right to be married. If we deny homosexuals this right we might as well tear up the Constitution and become a society where our rights are dictated by some other source, like say the Bible.

On a personal level, while I don't "get" homosexuality I do "get" love and the pursuit of happiness, and the happiness that marriage can bring. I even believe that marriage is a sacred institution - perhaps in a different way than many do - but I would never deem my personal beliefs too important to disallow ANY law-abiding citizen from enjoying the same thing I have had the opportunity to enjoy.

Illegal Smile said:
I think what is a right is all the legal rights that come with marriage. Civil union contracts that confer all the same rights as marriage should be available to everyone. But frankly, I see no right to take what has been an institution between man and woman for thousands of years and is an underpinning of society and suddenly redefine it into something else so gays don't have to be filled with doubt about whether their marriage is as good as our marriage.

I don't mean to get testy, but my message to gays is that if you can't evolve and define your own version of marriage then that's your problem. You should have 100% of the legal rights but not the name marriage. Call it being "partnered" or whatever, but the ages old institution of marriage does not have to stretch to accomodate gay union.

Why do you agree with the "seperate but equal" theory here?

Pnuggle said:
I vote for love. If the communion is man and man, or woman and woman, I would not invade their privacy anymore than I would invade a straight persons.

tnrtinr said:
Marriage predates Christianity so keep your moral arguments to yourself.

Marriage is a legal status - that is why you have to have a witness when you get your marriage certificate, and go through the court system to dissolve the contract (divorce).. There is no conscionable reason that the government can discriminate based on sex when it comes to legal contracts.

Well CA seems to think they can...well...they did. :cry:

happyface said:
America is one nation under God.AND GOD SAYS NO GAY SHIT

And everyone doesn't believe in God. So why should everyone in the
nation have to abide by rules they think are ludicrous?

happyface said:
whoever is arguing that gays sould be able to get married is just retarded for real. EVERYTHING WE DO IS UNDER GOD!if they wanna leave outside the normal way of life then they need to do that shit behind closed doors.and preferably in france with all the other sissys. just lucky God is forgiving thats all i have to say about that.

heterosexuals don't have to do everything behind closed doors, so
there is no reason to say homosexuals should.

Dystopia · Jul 30, 2009

Roseman said:
I was just saying if we going to change the definition of marrige from what it has been for the past 200 or more years, then the door is being opened to change it even more drastically. If someone has the civil right to demand that it be changed,then the beastalitist and the pedip[hile have the same right.

In my state, homosexuallity IS against the law, they call it sodomy, and in my state homo-marriage is against the law too.

Marriage, as least how it is predominantly practiced here in the United States, bears little resemblance to how it was practiced in Biblical times. And the legal definition of marriage in the U.S. has changed MANY times in the last 200+ years to meet the ever-changing "norms" of society.

For example, the "definition" of marriage in the U.S. originally was more-or-less "between a man and woman of the same race, where the man is the head of the household and sole owner of all property." Of course women's suffrage stripped the "head of household and sole owner" and inter-racial marriage stripped the "same race", so all that is left is "man and woman".

Each of these steps was vigorously fought as "perversions of God's will" that would lead to the degradation of the value or sanctity of marriage. And if you look at marriage myopically I suppose you could say that it has; after all, we are now talking about allowing homosexuals to get married. And who's to say how marriage will be defined 200 years from now?

The LEGAL trend in the U.S. over the last 200+ years has been to move from a non-secular Protestant definition of marriage to a secular (non-religious) definition that matches the secularity of the Constitution. And once you take religion out of the question then gay marriage will eventually happen, of course, even in your state. It's called progress.

And even if it was legal for someone to marry their dog, would this externality somehow change the love you feel for your own wife and children? Would it change the responsibility and permanence you took on when you exchanged your vows? Would you feel like your marriage has no longer been blessed by God (if that's your thing)?

If not, if homosexuals getting married does not change your marriage for the worse in any way, then why not allow two law-abiding and consenting adults enjoy the same freedom to pursue and experience the many joys that marriage CAN bring?

purplekitty7772008 · Jul 30, 2009

jiggs2269 said:
It's simple if a person doesn't like the state laws, then move. Find a state that suites you. There's 50 of them.

Wow. So when it is just that simple to get thousands and thousands
of dollars out of your ass and move to a state that allows same sex marriages?

:roll:

Last time I checked, I couldn't get a job even after I had experience
in a field.

Last time I checked, my gpa had 32 years experience in his field of
expertise, and COULDN'T get a job..

So please don't say its "simple"

hom36rown said:
Fuck god, we don't need to listen to that fag.

t@intshredder said:
I don't do sh*t under god.
So when you finally figured out that Santa wasn't real, you didn't realize god wasn't real either? Maybe some fat guy should dress up as god at the mall for all the kids to get their picture taken with.

I freaking love you taint. You're fucking hilarious. :hug:

strangerdude562 said:
i don't care if gays marry and i do feel sorry for them, but i would vote to ban gay marriage if they start teaching that crap in school. To my understanding they have been teaching about gay lifestyle to young kids, that i don't approve of.

I didn't know school was about keeping kids in the dark about
reality. :roll:

They teach about sex too...did all parents agree with that?
Not at first, but when less and less teens got knocked up
and there were less STD's floating around, parents started
to agree with it.

doobnVA said:
Simple? Since when is moving to a new state "simple"? Especially NOW with it being so hard to find a job, most people are stuck where they are.

Have you ever tried to find a job in another state? Was flying (or driving) back and forth across the country for job interviews "simple"? How about finding a place to live from halfway across the country. Was that "simple" too?

Do you have ANY IDEA how much money it costs to move a whole house full of stuff (and people) to another state?

Simple, my ass.

I love these dumb kids who think everyone can just pack up and move across country on a fucking WHIM. They're right up there with the kids who think all coffee comes from Starbucks at $8 a cup.

PVS said:
gay lifestyle 101? i find this hard to believe.
kids learning that gay people exist and that they are not inherently evil? well i would hope so.

kiss-ass

Roseman said:
If the definition of MARRIAGE is changed from a religious union or civil union between a man and a woman, to a perverted union between the same two sexes, then whole new doors are opened. Like I have my civil rights to marry my dog., don't I? Or I have the civil right to marry my 12 year old niece?

Roseman, we're not talking about pedophiles or bestiality.

I hate when people compare two perfectly healthy human

beings loving each other with animal fucking and pedophilia.

Whole new doors aren't opened. This subject has nothing to do
with those matters. Bring up a better argument if you want to
join this debate.

jiggs2269 said:
You can say all the bullshit you want buddy. First off, I'm not a kid. I'm well into the legal drinking age. And second. It's cool if you wanna eccept your pitiful existance. But if anyone wants to change their life they can. No one said it was easy. The decision is simple. Not the path it takes to get there. Anything in life that's worth having isn't easy.

Of course it takes money to move, I wanted to move in state over the summer and it didn't happen. I also am broke. But does it mean I'm stuck. Hell no! I just have to wait a little longer and when I finaly get it, it will be all the much more sweet. I used to be like you. Always thinking it could never happen. Making excuses for myself and the people around,. The sad news is you make your own reality. If you think you're stuck, then you're gonna b stuck. Sure people get in funks. Sure people lose their jobs. Do you remember a thing call the great depression? Do you know what a Hooverville is? if not look it up. That was the worst time for money. But guess what? They came back. They made back their money and were able to do what needed to be done to survive. Life goes on. Now, do you see any Hoovervilles around where you live? I sure as hell don't.

Look at all the rock stars that came out to cali, from all over the country and world, with nothing in their pocket and made it. I'm from califonia and I know how expensive it is to live here. But both sides of my granparents, and my girls family all came out here with nothing and guess what? We were able to recieve a decent education and grow up to go to colleges and have a great career. You may not be able benefit from your decision right at this moment or possibly ever in your life. (That would suck though.) But do you really want your kids and their kids to be "Stuck" too?

So fuck everyone who makes excuses for themselves. Go ahead and stay stuck. While your at it just dig a hole and burry yourselves because that's where you're gonna stay.

P.s. Douche bag. I've got a yard long dick, a bucket of balls and enough hair on my ass to weave and indian blanket. I aint no kid, I'm a man motha fucka.

No one was making excuses jiggs. Its reality. If you're broke, you're
not going to spend off all your savings and move just to have rights that

shouldn't be banned in the first place.

Dystopia said:
You make no sense; if homosexuality is legal and beastiality and pedophilia are not, then where's the slippery slope? Might as well say that letting people hunt animals with a rifle will lead to people hunting humans with a bazooka.

Just say homosexuals make you want to puke and because you don't like them they shouldn't get married and be done with it. Don't make up bullshit, it weakens your argument.

Thank you. I agree that didn't make any sense either.

I'm sorry, but I think thats the stupidest, most unreasonable comparison
anyone can make with same sex marriage.

Animal fucking and pedophilia?

:lol:

WOW.

t@intshredder said:
You're comparing gay marriage to bestiality and incest? I knew you were a jesus freak, but I didn't realize you had brain damage.

Roseman said:
I was just saying if we going to change the definition of marrige from what it has been for the past 200 or more years, then the door is being opened to change it even more drastically. If someone has the civil right to demand that it be changed,then the beastalitist and the pedip[hile have the same right.

In my state, homosexuallity IS against the law, they call it sodomy, and in my state homo-marriage is against the law too.

Well I bet you will be pretty upset when it becomes legal everywhere
then won't you?

You won't have a choice but to deal with it and move on with your
life.

Boogaloo Bud said:
What you don't understand is homosexuality isn't something that can be helped. Your either gay or your not and if you are then there is nothing you can do about it. It's been proven that it's not a choice, but a way people are made.

If god didn't want homosexuality then why does he make it impossible for these people to be anything but?

By the way, I thought god was the only one to judge people?? I'm sure he would be perfectly happy sending homosexuals who live a good life to hell but accept a person who is prejudist and calls people freaks to heaven........

And this doesn't have anything to do with me believing in god or not. I just get pissed when I see a hypocritical religous person. They say that homosexuality is wrong by the bible but isn't judging and discriminating also wrong? You can't pick and choose....

Many (not saying all) religious people do this. Just as Roseman has done.
If God was so perfect in all ways, then he would have made us in a way
that wouldn't upset him, right?

If he is all powerful, why doesn't he just make everyone heterosexual
so no one goes to hell? I thought God loved EVERYONE.

Guess that's a lie. If he loved everyone, he wouldn't condemn
his "different" children to hell because they don't conform with

what society and the bible says is right.

And hell, I thought only God could judge people too. :roll:

Roseman said:
I didn't mention the Bible, nor judge them. I expressed my opinion that I think if the laws and definitons about marriage are changed, then we're opening the door for some even more changes.

Do you judge and discriminate against pediphiles?

and if the Bible gives rules for owning slaves, (and it does) and for being a good slave (and it does) I don't consider the Bible a good reference for homosexuality.

Alot of people sure are putting words in my statement that I didn't make here.

I'll unsubscribe and let the gays argue about it.

Bob Dylan said it. THE TIMES, THEY ARE A CHANGING.

So we're all gays here now Roseman?

The only reason you unsubscribed is because you were backed into
a corner with your unreasonable arguments that make no sense.

GrowTech said:
My brother in law is gay. He and his boyfriend have been together for 5 years and they are the most well rounded responsible people I have ever met. They will make awesome parents one day.

Sad I can't say the same for ANY of my straight friends/family.

So wouldn't you adopt a child into your brother-in-laws home
instead of your straight family members since it is obviously
the healthier choice here?

Well, some in this thread argue that even though those other family
members would be shit for parents that they
still deserve to raise children over a happy, stable homosexual couple.

Oh the logic of people sometimes..

:roll:

Dystopia said:
Marriage, as least how it is predominantly practiced here in the United States, bears little resemblance to how it was practiced in Biblical times. And the legal definition of marriage in the U.S. has changed MANY times in the last 200+ years to meet the ever-changing "norms" of society.

For example, the "definition" of marriage in the U.S. originally was more-or-less "between a man and woman of the same race, where the man is the head of the household and sole owner of all property." Of course women's suffrage stripped the "head of household and sole owner" and inter-racial marriage stripped the "same race", so all that is left is "man and woman".

Each of these steps was vigorously fought as "perversions of God's will" that would lead to the degradation of the value or sanctity of marriage. And if you look at marriage myopically I suppose you could say that it has; after all, we are now talking about allowing homosexuals to get married. And who's to say how marriage will be defined 200 years from now?

The LEGAL trend in the U.S. over the last 200+ years has been to move from a non-secular Protestant definition of marriage to a secular (non-religious) definition that matches the secularity of the Constitution. And once you take religion out of the question then gay marriage will eventually happen, of course, even in your state. It's called progress.

And even if was legal for someone to marry their dog, would this externality somehow change the love you feel for your own wife and children? Would it change the responsibility and permanence you took on when you exchanged your vows? Would you feel like your marriage has no longer been blessed by God (if that's your thing)?

If not, if homosexuals getting married does not change your marriage for the worse in any way, then why not allow two law-abiding and consenting adults enjoy the same freedom to persue and experience the many joys that marriage CAN bring?

Beautiful.

I don't think anyone who disagree's with same-sex marriage can
answer those questions....

if they can...

I would like to read how they would make a logical argument against
those statements and questions.

Louis541 · Jul 30, 2009

Roseman said:
I was just saying if we going to change the definition of marrige from what it has been for the past 200 or more years, then the door is being opened to change it even more drastically. If someone has the civil right to demand that it be changed,then the beastalitist and the pedip[hile have the same right.

In my state, homosexuallity IS against the law, they call it sodomy, and in my state homo-marriage is against the law too.

Careful roseman, your retarded is showing.

200 years? Is that supposed to be a long time? What about the thousands of years before the christians came along? They felt it was fine until then.

purplekitty7772008 · Jul 30, 2009

Louis541 said:
Careful roseman, your retarded is showing.

200 years? Is that supposed to be a long time? What about the thousands of years before the christians came along? They felt it was fine until then.

Lol. Roseman unsubscribed because he was making totally

retarted arguments and comparisons and couldn't handle
us people who were making logical arguments and reasons

on the topic.

Glad you could join the discussion Louis.

Louis541 · Jul 30, 2009

Thanks. Pretty sure I joined somewere on the first couple pages but better late then never.

jiggs2269 · Jul 30, 2009

purplekitty7772008 said:
Wow. So when it is just that simple to get thousands and thousands
of dollars out of your ass and move to a state that allows same sex marriages?

Last time I checked, I couldn't get a job even after I had experience
in a field.

Last time I checked, my gpa had 32 years experience in his field of
expertise, and COULDN'T get a job..

So please don't say its "simple"

I freaking love you taint. You're fucking hilarious.

I didn't know school was about keeping kids in the dark about
reality.

They teach about sex too...did all parents agree with that?
Not at first, but when less and less teens got knocked up
and there were less STD's floating around, parents started
to agree with it.

kiss-ass

Roseman, we're not talking about pedophiles or bestiality.

I hate when people compare two perfectly healthy human

beings loving each other with animal fucking and pedophilia.

Whole new doors aren't opened. This subject has nothing to do
with those matters. Bring up a better argument if you want to
join this debate.

No one was making excuses jiggs. Its reality. If you're broke, you're
not going to spend off all your savings and move just to have rights that

shouldn't be banned in the first place.

Thank you. I agree that didn't make any sense either.

I'm sorry, but I think thats the stupidest, most unreasonable comparison
anyone can make with same sex marriage.

Animal fucking and pedophilia?

WOW.

Well I bet you will be pretty upset when it becomes legal everywhere
then won't you?

You won't have a choice but to deal with it and move on with your
life.

Many (not saying all) religious people do this. Just as Roseman has done.
If God was so perfect in all ways, then he would have made us in a way
that wouldn't upset him, right?

If he is all powerful, why doesn't he just make everyone heterosexual
so no one goes to hell? I thought God loved EVERYONE.

Guess that's a lie. If he loved everyone, he wouldn't condemn
his "different" children to hell because they don't conform with

what society and the bible says is right.

And hell, I thought only God could judge people too.

So we're all gays here now Roseman?

The only reason you unsubscribed is because you were backed into
a corner with your unreasonable arguments that make no sense.

So wouldn't adopt a child into your brother-in-laws home
instead of your straight family members since it is obviously
the healthier choice here.

Well, some in this thread argue that even though those other family
members would be shit for parents (not saying they are) that they
still deserve to raise children over a happy, stable homosexual couple.

Oh the logic of people sometimes..

Beautiful.

I don't think anyone who disagree's with same-sex marriage can
answer those questions....

if they can...

I would like to read how they would make a logical argument against
those statements and questions.

Look nothing is easy. Life is hard. There will always be someone out there that doesn't agree with what you're doing or how you do it. Purplekitty i hope you find a job. I'm probably gonna lose mine too. That's life. And yes the dicision is simple. The path is not. Look at the all the people on this site. They all DECIDED to grow regardless of the law, regardless of how much money they have and regardless of their living arangement. They found a way because it's what they wanted. They found loop holes or just set up a cheap room or box so that they would have something to smoke on. Then the others who have huge rooms that they have expanded into a lucrative business. They come in all shapes and sizes. Now how far are you wiling to go to get what you want? Guess where all the gays went when they were REALLY persecuted against in the 70's and 80's? San Francisco! The new version of America for gays. Where they can be free and live the way they want. People will always seperate themselves if they don't like what is offered in their present situation.

That's how america was founded. The people were sick of being judged and taxxed. So they moved to america in order to do what they wanted when they wanted. So what has changed? We expect every one and everything to cange to benefit us. Rather then change ourselves we tell everybody else to change. I don't want anyone to seperate. I love every one. I may not like everyone but I sure do love 'em. I want everyone to be happy and free. If people want to keep, "marriage" then let them keep it. Revolutions weren't started because people wanted to fit in. Wars were started for that reason. After a war everthing either changes or stays the same. We should move foward and make a new word that incorperates all. Who ever wants to come can and every one who wants to stay can as well. It's not fair to ask someone to change their traditions. Just start your own and you'll be suprised to see how many people will follow. Then eventually "marriage" will be a thing of the past. Traditions die because of their mistakes not because they were forced. I say stop trying to force the change and just allow it to happen. I love change.

purplekitty7772008 · Jul 30, 2009

jiggs2269 said:
Look nothing is easy. Life is hard. There will always be someone out there that doesn't agree with what you're doing or how you do it. Purplekitty i hope you find a job. I'm probably gonna lose mine too. That's life. And yes the dicision is simple. The path is not. Look at the all the people on this site. They all DECIDED to grow regardless of the law, regardless of how much money they have and regardless of their living arangement. They found a way because it's what they wanted. They found loop holes or just set up a cheap room or box so that they would have something to smoke on. Then the others who have huge rooms that they have expanded into a lucrative business. They come in all shapes and sizes. Now how far are you wiling to go to get what you want? Guess where all the gays went when they were REALLY persecuted against in the 70's and 80's? San Francisco! The new version of America for gays. Where they can be free and live the way they want. People will always seperate themselves if they don't like what is offered in their present situation.

That's how america was founded. The people were sick of being judged and taxxed. So they moved to america in order to do what they wanted when they wanted. So what has changed? We expect every one and everything to cange to benefit us. Rather then change ourselves we tell everybody else to change. I don't want anyone to seperate. I love every one. I may not like everyone but I sure do love 'em. I want everyone to be happy and free. If people want to keep, "marriage" then let them keep it. Revolutions weren't started because people wanted to fit in. Wars were started for that reason. After a war everthing either changes or stays the same. We should move foward and make a new word that incorperates all. Who ever wants to come can and every one who wants to stay can as well. It's not fair to ask someone to change their traditions. Just start your own and you'll be suprised to see how many people will follow. Then eventually "marriage" will be a thing of the past. Traditions die because of their mistakes not because they were forced. I say stop trying to force the change and just allow it to happen. I love change.

Jiggs, can you PLEASE make your paragraphs smaller.

I look at those 2 paragraphs and get overwhelmed, I really don't
want to read it but I will....

Ok...I've read.

Change had happened here in CA, and none of the lives of
heterosexual people were affected what-so-ever.

Let me ask you something?

Would you like to be granted a right, and then have
it taken away?

No. Thats all the homosexuals are saying. They're not trying to change
anyone's traditions. They just want what is fair for everyone.

America can't stay stuck on tradition. We are a country with ever changing
laws, and in this day and age, people should think about that.

Everything won't stay the same, so just let the change happen because
its NOT hurting anyone.

And thats what people (again, not all) who oppose gay marriage are acting like.
They act as if their world is going to turn upside down because 2 woman or 2 men
across the country get married. News flash: its not.

It won't effect anything about their person, their beliefs, their
freedoms, or their rights, or the sexual orientation their children will have.

It will simply allow more rights to people who are just as
deserving as the next hetero couple.

Why don't gays/lesbians deserve to have the right to be married?

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