Lighting questions.. Considering LED over hps/mh combo
- Thread starter jartlow
- Start date
rwbrock
Active Member
Not trying to start a fight either.....but it just strikes me odd the way you word your posts, I figured you and JR were one and the same person. If your not I apologize....You keep bringing up the gram per watt thing too. What is that all about yield is not just light dependent as we all know. And why do all these shitty light manufactures claim 900 watts when they run on half that power, why advertise Max power? I am new to LED going from my 400 HPS to the Area 51 SGS160 for my small closet grow. My light uses 5w cree LED mixed with 630nm cree. and to be honest bro the whole UVB thing is debatable or it would be industry standard. As you know there is a big debate on LED vs HPS, many feel LED is the way to go bases on PAR values vs throwing a bunch of lumes at a plant. What has been holding LED back in the industry is the cost of the technology. So here come the cheap knock offs from China, now every noob is on ebay buying these shit lights. Do they work, sure....do they cost less yes! Are they better than a HID light? Nope LED sucks they grow fluffy bud not great bud, only good for veg, won't yield as much.....it goes on and on. Hmmmm, here comes so good manufactures putting in the research and making quality lights there are more than a few manufactures. Yes they cost more and good growers are using them. Now we can compare LED to HID and guess what, LED is starting to catch on. That's how I got into it and now I am giving it a go. Sure the technology will change but if you have a solid light it will be used for many years.
Look I am just saying you know way to much about all this to be pushing this light this hard. I know it sounds like I am pushing the AREA 51 just happens to be the light I choose after reading and looking at many journals. My friend has the blackdog and likes it...basically the rip off version you recommend is based off of. Look like I said I am new to all this as well. I am just smart enough to know to stay away from buying shit off ebay, most of it is junk! I don't understand all the customization and know guys build their own LED panels. I am just saying if your truly smart enough to know all this then your smart enough to know the extra money is money well spent and you wouldn't be looking at that light. Like others have posted here you sound like a sales person pushing this light homie. Just sayin.....
Look I am just saying you know way to much about all this to be pushing this light this hard. I know it sounds like I am pushing the AREA 51 just happens to be the light I choose after reading and looking at many journals. My friend has the blackdog and likes it...basically the rip off version you recommend is based off of. Look like I said I am new to all this as well. I am just smart enough to know to stay away from buying shit off ebay, most of it is junk! I don't understand all the customization and know guys build their own LED panels. I am just saying if your truly smart enough to know all this then your smart enough to know the extra money is money well spent and you wouldn't be looking at that light. Like others have posted here you sound like a sales person pushing this light homie. Just sayin.....
rwbrock
Active Member
I apologize for reporting someone if they are not spam....just seemed odd to me a google search on this LED light pulled up the same argument seeming to be the same dude who referenced this same JR guy for a "discount" and was a spammer? Maybe that's where you got your info as well. Anyway, not try to lie about you bro....I just pointed it out to someone and let them figure it out! Anyway, I wish you peace and love grower....no need to argue about this anymore you do you and I'ma do me 
DCobeen
Well-Known Member
okay cool and i am not him i have 4 small leds and a ufo wihch equals 175 actual watts. im buying as i go. to me buy what you can afford. when i compared the price diff between the 2 it was over $200 diff that is allot of money. so i went to google typed in the name of light and found posts. read their whole grow both area 51 and lg-led both did great. as you said the lights dont mean you will get the 1 gram per watt. you have allot of other factors. but im glad we can not fight about lights. and i am not knocking area 51. here is a pic from 2 days ago with my lights. as the plants get bigger i add more. my 180 watt ufo 112 actual will be added next week. so ill have 175 actual led watts and around 100 watt cfl fill in. that is how im doing this grow. to show others little lights combined can grow. then ill buy my tent and a big led. i have my eye on the 900 watt lg-led for the price its right for me. if i can afford an area 51 i might go that route. im growing to get organic weed at a decent price for me and a few others. so money is a factor for me.
DCobeen
Well-Known Member
i didnt know jr was a spammer his post is still up at 420mag. im a member there also but dont do much their i like it here better. but ill read any post from any forum to find the facts. im an outdoor grower and this indoor is newer to me. i dont work in winter so i sit here all day and read research find the facts. and when i can i use the facts to help others. okay im gonna sit back clean my pipe since im out and smoke some res.I apologize for reporting someone if they are not spam....just seemed odd to me a google search on this LED light pulled up the same argument seeming to be the same dude who referenced this same JR guy for a "discount" and was a spammer? Maybe that's where you got your info as well. Anyway, not try to lie about you bro....I just pointed it out to someone and let them figure it out! Anyway, I wish you peace and love grower....no need to argue about this anymore you do you and I'ma do me
Mellodrama
Well-Known Member
Any panel huckster who's got the temerity to state that their panel will yield X grams per watt should be avoided. That's like selling little red lights for the bedroom and guaranteeing the best sex you ever had.
DCobeen
Well-Known Member
the 2 grows i seen with these panels yielded that. ive also seen the area 51 yield that. so its up to your wallet. of coarse the grower if dont right also. ill take 1/2 the yield for better quality anyday. im using 175 actual watts led to flower/bloom this grow and if i get 100 grams of killer buds ill be happy, if i get 200 grams ill be super happy. only time will tell. I dont have either of th ebig led panel's yet. Ive followed 6 diff grows so far from start to finish and im impressed with both panels.
Mellodrama
Well-Known Member
DC -
Please don't get me wrong. I'm freakin' thrilled for anyone who's gotten great results. Even if they did it with an LED panel other than the one I chose.
It's just that I personally would be turned off by a marketing effort that resorted to baseless claims of productivity. Especially considering there are about a thousand variables other than lighting which affect final yield.
Please don't get me wrong. I'm freakin' thrilled for anyone who's gotten great results. Even if they did it with an LED panel other than the one I chose.
It's just that I personally would be turned off by a marketing effort that resorted to baseless claims of productivity. Especially considering there are about a thousand variables other than lighting which affect final yield.
harris hawk
Well-Known Member
figure length x width (4 x 4=16) then x's that by 2000 (2000 x 16 = 32,000) So 32,000 lumens is needed to cover your area
DCobeen
Well-Known Member
i got that just in cfl. my 4 hanging led put out 4400 total lumes the 180watt ufo i am not sure. i would guess since they are 3 watt diodes running at 1/2 (60 led's) power puts out 10000 or more. but im jsut gonna flower with 4 led and ufo with cfl's in middle and outside . ill see what i end up with. im only using 2x4 this harvest. 4 plants. the other 6 are gonna stay in veg and grow allot more first.
jartlow
Well-Known Member
Right, if you want 1 lumen per inch.. However I believe you want the plant to receive close to 100,000 lumens. I could be wrong. .
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DCobeen
Well-Known Member
10000 lumen per square ft is what the sun puts out. 2000 lumen per square foot to grow good is my understanding.
chazbolin
Well-Known Member
Lumens are for humans. Plants don't absorb wavelengths in the visual range like they do in the UV-B and Red-Far Red regions. The three regions of importance are shown on the top of page one. The big valley of white to the right of center is visual.
http://www.inda-gro.com/pdf/MeasuringPlantLight.pdf
http://www.inda-gro.com/pdf/MeasuringPlantLight.pdf
DCobeen
Well-Known Member
great doc. explains allot. thank you
monkeychief
Well-Known Member
Just like the title says.. I'm about to build my box(4'L x 4'W x 6'T). My goal is to grow about four plants in soil at a time. I originally thought about doing a 750w hps setup to run continuously while using a 1000w MH setup(that can also run a 1000w hps for flowering). Technically I was just going to do a 600w MH/HPS interchangeable setup but I don't want to lower my yield/production potential seeing how I can afford the 750/1000 combo. With that being said I'm also very interested in LEDs. I'm just worried that with my little knowledge and experience I would be wasting my money on LED. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
jartlow,
Fortunately the led technology has reached the point of being able to produce yield similar to hps but of much higher quality. I also want to point out that the myth of leds producing similar results for 1/4 or 1/3 of power vs. HID's has been seriously busted. The actual wattage to meet say a 1k HPS is more realistically at least 75% it's wattage. With that said, depending on your budget, I can recommend many that would fit your application well. Unlike HID's how the difference between say a generic 1k HPS system vs. a Lumatek may only be a hundred bucks, the led's price fluctuation could be up to 3-4x like more than $1,000 for a so-called brand name unit. A lot of these so-called brand-name panels are no more than a reseller buying panels from a chinese manufacturer and putting there name on it then coming up with a mean line of bs and fancy names then charging up to 5x the amount. From the beginning til now, there's been so much "snake oil" marketing tactic, stating ridiculous claims that turned off a lot of people and left the industry wide open for the HID guys to capitalize and ridicule. Besides lower power consumption vs. HID's, it offers additional benefits of running much cooler, in fact, on average will only raise the ambient temps by 6-8degrees. This allows substantial saving of power and resources such additional ventilation and cooling associated with HID's that on average will add at least 30% to your total power consumption. It's also nice to leave the house without worrying bout a mini-sun at home and adding more burn scars.
For your 4x4x6' I would recommend 2 reputable panels with a
minimum of 350w actual not rated, or better yet 4 minimum of 200w drawn wattage. The most important thing you must consider in designing an effective led system or any other lighting option, is the inverse-square-law, which will dramatically reduce the level of intensity as distance is increase from the light source.
Option 1
2 LG/TopLed 5W Mars II 900's which will give u approx. 900-1000W combined with much less heat vs. HPS. Their standard red 11+band spectrum's fine or u can get custom spectrum made to your specifications. You can opt. to go with Apache, A51, or whatever you like to experiment with since there's so many combo's that will work with some better than others.
Option 2
4 any brand name or generic 100x3w(180-200w actual), which would give u approx. 720-880W actual wattage. This is a better choice since it will allow you to spread the wattage into a wider footprint providing better spectral saturation and coverage. This is the best way to overcome the dreaded inverse square law which will affect the outer area of the footprint.
As far as brand-name, "caveat emptor", as many are just resellers who claim they have the magic spectrum that will make the girls flourish and charge a 400-500% premium citing R&D and expenses. These are the same companies who turn around and put down the "cheap chinese panels", the very ones that supply them with the same exact panel for a fraction of the price. All the info u need is avail. via net, so just spend a little time informing yourself and you will save yourself a lot of time, resources, and grief later.
jartlow,
Fortunately the led technology has reached the point of being able to produce yield similar to hps but of much higher quality. I also want to point out that the myth of leds producing similar results for 1/4 or 1/3 of power vs. HID's has been seriously busted. The actual wattage to meet say a 1k HPS is more realistically at least 75% it's wattage. With that said, depending on your budget, I can recommend many that would fit your application well. Unlike HID's how the difference between say a generic 1k HPS system vs. a Lumatek may only be a hundred bucks, the led's price fluctuation could be up to 3-4x like more than $1,000 for a so-called brand name unit. A lot of these so-called brand-name panels are no more than a reseller buying panels from a chinese manufacturer and putting there name on it then coming up with a mean line of bs and fancy names then charging up to 5x the amount. From the beginning til now, there's been so much "snake oil" marketing tactic, stating ridiculous claims that turned off a lot of people and left the industry wide open for the HID guys to capitalize and ridicule. Besides lower power consumption vs. HID's, it offers additional benefits of running much cooler, in fact, on average will only raise the ambient temps by 6-8degrees. This allows substantial saving of power and resources such additional ventilation and cooling associated with HID's that on average will add at least 30% to your total power consumption. It's also nice to leave the house without worrying bout a mini-sun at home and adding more burn scars.
For your 4x4x6' I would recommend 2 reputable panels with a
minimum of 350w actual not rated, or better yet 4 minimum of 200w drawn wattage. The most important thing you must consider in designing an effective led system or any other lighting option, is the inverse-square-law, which will dramatically reduce the level of intensity as distance is increase from the light source.
Option 1
2 LG/TopLed 5W Mars II 900's which will give u approx. 900-1000W combined with much less heat vs. HPS. Their standard red 11+band spectrum's fine or u can get custom spectrum made to your specifications. You can opt. to go with Apache, A51, or whatever you like to experiment with since there's so many combo's that will work with some better than others.
Option 2
4 any brand name or generic 100x3w(180-200w actual), which would give u approx. 720-880W actual wattage. This is a better choice since it will allow you to spread the wattage into a wider footprint providing better spectral saturation and coverage. This is the best way to overcome the dreaded inverse square law which will affect the outer area of the footprint.
As far as brand-name, "caveat emptor", as many are just resellers who claim they have the magic spectrum that will make the girls flourish and charge a 400-500% premium citing R&D and expenses. These are the same companies who turn around and put down the "cheap chinese panels", the very ones that supply them with the same exact panel for a fraction of the price. All the info u need is avail. via net, so just spend a little time informing yourself and you will save yourself a lot of time, resources, and grief later.
jartlow
Well-Known Member
I appreciate it! I think I'm going with 2 190s from area51lighting.com I have been second guessing and thinking Apache but buying two of their panels would almost consume my budget.
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monkeychief
Well-Known Member
Sounds like u've mad a great choice. I'm also running their last spectrum the 4500k/630nm and new all 3700k also along with Apache's 6100k/630's. I've been playing with leds for almost six yrs. now and gone thru almost 30 panel of different models and makes from chinese to american. You can't go wrong with the A51's, they're fairly priced, high qualtiy panels that work well though I think those two previously mentioned spectrum stretches a little more than I like since I just started running them 3weeks ago compared to my other spec. panels and T-8's.
Where am I
Well-Known Member
I use passive intake and carbon filter / fan to exhaust out of a 4 X 4 X 7 tent. I normally run the fan at 1/3 speed. The fan at full speed pulls 425 cfm. This is with four 140 (actual) watt LED panels.
Where am I
Well-Known Member
Whats up MC !