Heres the joys of this one. Its all about belifs. You cannot really prove there is or isnt a god. It is all about ones belifs. Some one bleives in god or they dont. If you belive in god and i dont well just have to agree to disagree. You cant prove to me there is a god just like i couldnt prove to anyone else there is no god.
another bullshit thread. whether you call yourself atheist or not, you are defining yourself by god. get off the short bus.
these two posts are exactly the same in their nature. we've had several threads like this is the past (i assume a few before i ever joined the forum too) and theyre alwase being cluttered up with this shit. some ppl love talking about this sort of thing, a day or two will pass and then every body has to read thru 4 pages just to catch up. do everybody a favor and dont bother posting if ur not going to add something constructive.
please?
-
okay. i call out anybody reading this to challenge what they believe. fuck what uve learned or been taught, if ur view of the universe is so great it should be able to stand solid against the ideas of a 19 yr druggie suffering from borderline personality disorder. but to fully understand my argument u need to read thru it all (and it probly will be lengthy) without putting up mental walls every two seconds because an assumption uve made a while back conflicts with one of my sentences. read thru it all and then post ur rebuttals. this is how true debates are done.
believing something without rational reason is called gullibility. (sure, faith is nice and all, comfort is a good thing for children who need to learn societys rules the easy way, but its time to grow up.) for the time being, pretend that ur wiping ur assumptions of the universe clean. u dont know anything. -----------------------------------------------------------done?
so what do we got? a clean slate, a blank page- represented by infinite existence and immeasurable nothingness with no lines to differentiate between the two. dont continue unless u can fathom this. everything is the same.
years ago man believed that the other planets in the solar system were godly beings because from what theyd experienced, that seemed a logical conclusion. to
logically start breaking down our model of the universe
without the use of faith,
we need supreme knowledge. but we dont have that. we know
nothing.
but, hey now, what did we just say?
nothing is the same as
everything. congratulations, you are now "god". how does it feel? in this theoretical universe we just "created" moments ago, we know all. but remember, our universe still doesnt actually exist. creation is no different than destruction. in our model there is no beginning, there is no end. our model now has a perdurable, limitless time line.
now to see how well our model stacks up in representing the "real" world.
1. time, creation, and destruction are only illusions
2. you are "god"
throughout the ages, mankind has relied on labels to function productively in daily life. languages are just complex systems of labeling. what ur staring at right now is not "monitor". monitor is what we have agreed to call this object. when we do away with these types of labels, it becomes easy to see that the "real" universe is all connected. its all the same. labels are used to describe all things tangible. objects, life forms, ideas, places in time, patterns of movement, whatever. what is this monitor? when u break it down a bit, its a collection of atoms. what separates the atoms of the monitor and the air surrounding it? its function. what determines function?
perception. u say this machines purpose is to display a visual representation of the information provided by ur computer. the small spider that has layed its eggs inside it says its a warm shelter for its unborn offspring. the electricity powering it says its just another section of the network its cycling thru. its all relative. so when u say that this monitor was created, it really wasnt. it has changed from what it once was, in a way, but it was never created. and it will never be destroyed.
what is time? time is the transition between two points in our forth dimension. the present is the
destruction of the future (what will be) and the
creation of the past (what has been). can we pin point where the present is? not unless we can pin point the past and future. is any type of measurement infallible? no, because everything is made of something.
monitor-components-molecules-atoms-subatomic particles-quarks, etc... everything has to be made out of something.
if something was made of nothing, it would be nothing. (btw, antimatter is something else completely. antihydrogen would be made of a antielectron and a antiproton. and even if the monitor ur looking at is made of antimatter at a small enough scale its still made of something. anitmatter is something, even if its anti-something)
so the scale to which the physical universe exists is infinite. numbers can go on forever. ( 1,111,111,111,111,111,... ; .033333333333...) a mere second is infinite in nature. a mere atom never ends in depth. it all depends on perception. so from what we can measure, there is no present. but we know its here right? in fact, the present is the only thing that we truly experience.
infinite existence and immeasurable nothingness with no real lines to differentiate between the two.
all u creationists out there start tp lose ur argument right here. sorry. "
if theres no god, than how did this all come to be?" it didnt. there was no beginning. to assume a beginning u rely on faith and we've done away with faith for the time being, remember? faith is a tool of delusion. adopted by the ignorant; exploited by those with "power".
"
but look how pretty and amazing everything is! look how intricate and elaborate this shit is! god must be out there!" nope. "pretty" and "amazing" are just labels to describe human ideas. these ideas describe personal emotion, a product of perception. these ideas are experienced differently by everybody. just as subjective as everything else. and the words "elaborate" and "intricate" describe the perception of the person, not what they are perceiving. how do i figure? all worldly knowledge is subjective. just as the romans concluded the planet mars was a spiritual being of war, all of our collective knowledge may very well be obsolete in the future. and the actual nature of all ideas (and the labels that describe them) are specific to every individual that holds them, because we all see things differently. we say that the structure and function of a living tissue cell is intricate now, but what we see it as now is going to be considered simple in a few centuries. everyone sees things differently. everybody has a different reality.
we are all god.
we are the creators of the worlds around us. when u consider something true or false, u form your mental model of the world u live in. and what u experience is not the external world (your keyboard, your house, your spouse). the phenomena u experience is a product of your senses, senses that are specific to ur limitations. (colorblindness, mental retardation, etc.)
im sure uve noticed me quoting "real" in "real world". to assume that anything but ur sensory perception actually exists is a matter of faith. solipsism, or external world skepticism, proves to be a very lonely mindset tho. this is where i draw the line. i consider it true (everything i have ever known or experienced has literally been "all in my head") but i refuse to live life that way. the first line drawn. this is one half of my faith.
the other half: i live life as tho i have choice over what i do. it is impossible for anybody to say that they truly control their actions. when u were born, it was the doing of ur parents. ur very existence was not ur doing. from then on, u developed as an individual. ur personality (which determines ur opinions and choices) was influenced by ur surroundings. anything u have ever done to influence ur surroundings is irrelevant.
say u are some type of buoyant rock and ur reality is a jar of water. when u were dropped in the jar (birth) u sent ripples outward. these ripples travel outward and eventually make it make to u after bouncing off the wall of the jar. now, these ripples will be effected by u this time around, possibly keeping u moving for years and years, but the origional ripple was not your doing.
choice is an illusion
finally the metaphysics of it all. how is the universe shaped? circles. circles are perfect by nature. pi is never ending. knowing that choice is an illusion, u can picture ur life as a straight line. the planets orbiting the sun dont actually travel in a circle, they move in one direction, but a force larger than them alters their course. (theists, chill out. theres always a larger force. even if there was some big bearded dude wearing a white robe that created us somehow, there had to be somebody who made him. "
what came first? the chicken or the egg?" dont be stupid. an egg is just a baby chicken. its all the same)
i figure that the cosmic destiny that determines all action in ones life moves in a straight line, but this straight line is altered by other lines of destiny. ever hear of the
golden rectangle?
we are all connected; are are all utterly alone. we are all ONE.
hail satan
) 