Lockdowns don't work.

[abandonconflict]

please do go ahead and quote that chain.wont be hard i havent posted many messages

maybe even the process of reading through them you might actual read them properly this time.

You're clearly stoned. I just made a pointed observation and it takes no significant amount of investigation to reveal the extent of it.

is this in the context of lockdowns in general or italy?

Italy obviously is the worst example but in general, I'd play that hand.

The fact is, the most successful countries have not even implemented lockdowns. Another salient fact, to which I have repeatedly alluded, is the utter lack of proof that any have worked. However, to your assertion that any have helped, maybe some have "helped" more than others. To that, I would very quickly reply that other factors account for the discrepancy.

 

[Rob Roy]

Except traffic accidents.

In the past USA traffic deaths have been as high as 29 per 100,000 people annually.

I think that may be higher than the death rate of this years virus so far.

Alternatively, if the virus deaths are something being used to mandate lockdowns, removal of rights etc, it would be reasonable to assign at least some of the reduced traffic deaths to corona virus lockdowns.

"Thank god, I'm alive today due to these lockdowns! I could have gotten run over by a car ! " Thanks government !

 

[ginjawarrior]

You're clearly stoned. I just made a pointed observation and it takes no significant amount of investigation to reveal the extent of it.

so yeah you were just lying then

Italy obviously is the worst example but in general, I'd play that hand.

play what hand?

The fact is, the most successful countries

define successful?

have not even implemented lockdowns. Another salient fact, to which I have repeatedly alluded, is the utter lack of proof that any have worked. However, to your assertion that any have helped, maybe some have "helped" more than others. To that, I would very quickly reply that other factors account for the discrepancy.

there are many different things and discrepancies that would account for numbers being different between countries

say italy and sweden the difference between them is quite big.

italy for example has some of the highest multi generation house sharing in europe

sweden is pretty much the lowest with 50% of the population living alone meaning theres already social distancing built in at a society level before there was any virus

or compare sweden and norway both very similar countries culturally but one implemented a lock down whilst the other one had a lower level "voluntary" lock down (social activities across sweden has dropped significantly)

norway had a much lower death rate than sweden



so yeah aside from those discrepancies between countries im gonna need to start getting defintion of what you mean by "successful"

 

[abandonconflict]

defintion of what you mean by "successful"

South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong.

 

[abandonconflict]

It has been disturbing to watch @abandonconflict follow the climate science denier's handbook in his rants against lockdowns.

Yes, I posted this to provoke. I'm curious how angry his response will be.

Because lockdowns work and human caused climate change is real, no matter how much bafflegab is thrown at them.

Is the climate denier's handbook to demand proof or to patiently stick to the same argument that has not been addressed while more than a dozen people heckle and try to provoke and even make mock threads while politicizing a pandemic in the hopes that it will somehow help their candidate win an election?

Human caused climate change is very real. I have spent the last several years in ocean conservation, cultivating coral to address it.

Were you going to point us toward some actual proof that lockdowns have been successful in keeping the number of new cases under control such that the healthcare system is not overloaded?

 

[abandonconflict]

"could have worked better"

You went from "they work" to "they help" to some jab about neither of these canards.

 

[Bear420]

People at meat packing plants are “essential”. They are less likely to be exposed to trumpvirus in areas that enforce Stay At Home which helps keep plants open.

Several huge meat packing plants are closed already because of it

trumpvirus LOVE IT !!!

HE CAN OWN IT

 

[doublejj]

'There is no date': Gov. Newsom gives more details on California's next phase

'There is no date': Gov. Newsom gives more details on California's next phase

California Gov. Gavin Newsom provided an update on the state's progress to reach a point...

www.sfgate.com

 

[abandonconflict]

Between March 22 and April 4, 2020, a total of 215 pregnant women delivered infants at the New York–Presbyterian Allen Hospital and Columbia University Irving Medical Center . All the women were screened on admission for symptoms of Covid-19. Nasopharyngeal swabs were obtained from 210 of the 211 women (99.5%) who did not have symptoms of Covid-19; of these women, 29 (13.7%) were positive for SARS-CoV-2. Thus, 29 of the 33 patients who were positive for SARS-CoV-2 at admission (87.9%) had no symptoms of Covid-19 at presentation.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2009316

 

[abandonconflict]

Nature interview with Sweden's top epidemiologist:

The epidemiologist behind Sweden’s controversial coronavirus strategy

Anders Tegnell talks to Nature about the nation’s ‘trust-based’ approach to tackling the pandemic.

www.nature.com

 

[Grandpapy]

Four fifths are asymptomatic. Four fifths of symptomatic cases are mild. We're almost certainly not tracking much more than just the critical cases.

Covid-19: four fifths of cases are asymptomatic, China figures indicate

New evidence has emerged from China indicating that the large majority of coronavirus infections do not result in symptoms. Chinese authorities began publishing daily figures on 1 April on the number of new coronavirus cases that are asymptomatic, with the first day’s figures suggesting that...

www.bmj.com

He's had 4 months to get test out, why is he delaying ?

 

[ginjawarrior]

South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong.

if your screaming that the world should be doing what south korea did well its way way to late to follow their path.

not only that but just because they got in ealry with the contact tracing does not mean that they wont ever have have any sort of lockdown

SEOUL, South Korea --- The South Korean capital of Seoul has shut down more than 400 hostess bars, night clubs and discos amid concerns over coronavirus transmissions.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-04-07/the-latest-new-zealand-official-demoted-for-lockdown-breach

im struggling to see what your point is with bring up south korea as its plainly obvious that it is now impossible to apply that to usa without the shutdown to drop numbers

 

[ginjawarrior]

You went from "they work" to "they help" to some jab about neither of these canards.

your just lying through your teeth

i thought your numbers and "arguement" were solid enough that you could have an "honest" discussion

i find it rather pathetic to see you rolling about dishonestly in the gutter like this

 

[ginjawarrior]

Four fifths are asymptomatic. Four fifths of symptomatic cases are mild. We're almost certainly not tracking much more than just the critical cases.

Covid-19: four fifths of cases are asymptomatic, China figures indicate

New evidence has emerged from China indicating that the large majority of coronavirus infections do not result in symptoms. Chinese authorities began publishing daily figures on 1 April on the number of new coronavirus cases that are asymptomatic, with the first day’s figures suggesting that...

www.bmj.com

lol abandon you have such little clue about what you're talking about you've now managed to go full circle

80% (4/5) asymptomatic is roughly what they've been saying for over a month now

Data as reported by national authorities by 10AM CET 06 March 2020

For COVID-19, data to date suggest that 80% of infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection, requiring oxygen and 5% are critical infections, requiring ventilation. These fractions of severe and critical infection would be higher than what is observed for influenza infection.

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200306-sitrep-46-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=96b04adf_2

congratulations you're now arguing the official line..

 

[abandonconflict]

Lockdown is going to bankrupt all of us and our descendants and is unlikely at this point to slow or halt viral circulation as the genie is out of the bottle. What the current situation boils down to is this: is economic meltdown a price worth paying to halt or delay what is already amongst us?

Nor can there be little doubt that the price of lockdown to society and economic paralysis is likely to be paid for generations to come. In the short term economic devastation seems certain, imposing a heavy penalty on us and probably successive generations.

In Bergamo, Italy, clinicians reflected on how to prepare for the next outbreak. Their view is that focussing on hospitals is the wrong way to manage COVID.

COVID-19 - The Tipping Point - The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine

Tom Jefferson, Carl Heneghan A quick look at the distribution of SARS 2 cases around southern Europe shows that viral

www.cebm.net

 

[abandonconflict]

lol abandon you have such little clue about what you're talking about you've now managed to go full circle

80% (4/5) asymptomatic is roughly what they've been saying for over a month now

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200306-sitrep-46-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=96b04adf_2

congratulations you're now arguing the official line..

What I linked was a new study. I linked it. Not sure why that bothers you so much or why you'd assume I don't know what has been known for months.

Also, it's a new study. Not sure if you're aware of that. Less than a month old.

To answer you, no, that's not exactly what "they've" been saying for a month. It has been well documented for several months that about 15% of known cases are severe and that the rest are mild. However, many estimates have been made regarding the asymptomatic proportion. Those have produced a wide range of results.

 

[ginjawarrior]

Wow you've gotten so pathetic as to delete your posts and then reposting them past any replies ......

lol abandon you have such little clue about what you're talking about you've now managed to go full circle

80% (4/5) asymptomatic is roughly what they've been saying for over a month now

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200306-sitrep-46-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=96b04adf_2

congratulations you're now arguing the official line..

COVID-19 - The Tipping Point - The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine

Tom Jefferson, Carl Heneghan A quick look at the distribution of SARS 2 cases around southern Europe shows that viral

www.cebm.net

leaving this here for posterity

 

[abandonconflict]

Wow you've gotten so pathetic as to delete your posts and then reposting them past any replies ......







leaving this here for posterity

Now you're just trolling, as you have been all along. There's no argument, no rebuttal of any sort, just insults and an attempt to mislead. Even when you tried to call out dishonesty and I pointed out that was what you did in your first post in this thread, you tried to misdirect as though I meant something else. That's why I removed and replaced a post, just to bury your shit-posting. Since you demand that I acknowledge your post which lacks an argument, it's clear you're only interested in derailing the thread into a bickering match.

You already lost the debate when you went from "they work" to "they help".

 

[ginjawarrior]

You already lost the debate when you went from "they work" to "they help".

already asked you to to support this bullshit lie about how i changed from "they work" to "they help"

now lets forget the fact that "they work" "they help" (and forget the fact you refused to give a definition on lockdown, success work) ARE a group of subsets that do not include "DONT WORK"

lets forget that

lets just concentrate on this magical switch of mine you claim

show me where i changed that and i'll forever leave this thread

 

[abandonconflict]

already asked you to to support this bullshit lie about how i changed from "they work" to "they help"

now lets forget the fact that "they work" "they help" (and forget the fact you refused to give a definition on lockdown, success work) ARE a group of subsets that do not include "DONT WORK"

lets forget that

lets just concentrate on this magical switch of mine you claim

show me where i changed that and i'll forever leave this thread

This was your response when you FINALLY figured out what I am actually arguing.

"could have worked better"


View attachment 4541720

You clearly went from "they work" to "they help".

You even made an attempt after that to shift to an example other than Italy and I accepted your invitation. You made no such other argument. You simply began berating me on every subsequent post I have made on this thread, which I started. Tht's called trolling. That is what you did on your very first post here too. You distorted my argument very intentionally to make it seem like I was pulling numbers out of my ass when in fact I was applying verified stats to a scientific model from a peer-reviewed study. You keep saying I'm not interested in hoenst debate, or that I have changed my stance. That's you projecting.