Time to End "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

CrackerJax

New Member
Stoney McFried, thank you for stating so succinctly what I have been angrily rousing about in incoherent fragments for about 20 posts.

CrackerJax, how does it increase our military effectiveness to have less soldiers? Again, any officer worth his salt needs to run an efficient unit, openly gay soldiers or not.
All indications are that the open gay policy would hurt recruitment in the general population. The gay population is around 2% of the population, so i hardly think there's any kind of a windfall waiting in the wings there. There are already PLENTY of gays in the military now..... they seem to be just fine.

Well, religion shouldn't be forced upon them, either,but the god folks sure do seem to be rampant in the armed forces.Some of the oaths still have phrases like,"So help me god,"in them as well.Don't ask, don't tell should also apply to personal spiritual beliefs as well.It's ridiculous to refuse to allow someone to serve in the military just because their personal beliefs don't coincide with yours-whether that refers to religion or sexuality. Why can't they just be soldiers?Why does a gay person make worse cannon fodder than a straight person?
The military isn't a social experiment...it is a collection of citizens who have enlisted in order to serve their country.Since all citizens are equal under the law, all citizens should have the opportunity to serve if they so choose.The same rules apply to them as to any other soldier-and the same consequences apply if they violate those rules. You can get in a lot of trouble if you sexually harass another soldier, regardless of their sex. Gay people have no less self control than straight people.If they are serious about a career in the military,why would they jeopardize it by telling some homophobe his ass is cute?:peace:

Maybe she thinks you're going to JUDGE her.:shock:
You nailed it without realizing it. All military personnel ENLIST....volunteer. These are the rules.... if you can live within them....by all means join. Many gays have joined. It's a contract.... In the end, the military does not want any sexuality at all on base, ships....except on leave. then you can go hump a corn field for all the military cares. But for a service of COMBAT.... it's all about keeping the focus to maximum, and the INDIVIDUAL to a minimum. Openly gays increase INDIVIDUALITY amongst the ranks ... and that is NOT what the military desires. Rightfully so.....

Not all morals are bad.But my idea of morality may differ from another person's. For example, many people find "naughty" words to be immoral. I don't. Nudity itself is nothing to be ashamed of,it's the context its viewed in that may cause a person to feel ashamed.
Making gay people pretend they're something they're not is an example of the subjectivity of morals.The gay person is being told they should be ashamed of what they are,and that they should hide it....because someone else is trying to make them live by their own particular set of morals.I think,as long as they're not hurting anyone,it's not immoral.There are folks on here who scream about "the gay agenda",and how gay people are trying to force them to accept homosexuality...but in the same breath, they say that gay people should not be openly gay while serving in the military...isn't that forcing an agenda on someone,too? If you don't wanna suck a cock,don't.But don't make someone else feel like a leper because they do.
And public nudity laws were enacted primarily to keep waiters from dragging their balls in the butter dish.:mrgreen:
The only thing ANYONE is asked is to keep it private.... OPENLY gay is not private. It's disruptive. In the general CIVILIAN population, I have absolutely no problem with anyone expressing their sexuality...but not in the military.

OK, so you don't care of someone is gay or not? Then give them the same rights that a straight person has... allow them the right to admit it openly without fear of repercussion. Anything other is discrimination. You know the military will function as effectively no matter what they legislate.

And to be honest, I sometimes don't get what your 5 word responses are getting at. Often times I do, but other times it is like my girlfriend watching Dennis Miller try to commentate on football.
No rights are being taken away. The military wants ALL sexuality to be discreet, unless it bonds the unit. This will not bond the unit...just the opposite.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Time to end "the military." Time to end "the federal gov't."

Then we could eliminate all of this nonsense.

You DO get to the root of the problem, which is usually one person or set of people imposing their will on others rather than leaving them alone.

Both the military and the federal government were supposed to have been instituted to PROTECT freedom.
This very discussion is a good illustration that it hasn't always worked that way, often very much the opposite.

So maybe the proper question is : Why would anybody gay or straight want to join an organization that is forcefully funded, and does the opposite of what it says it does?
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
Doc, Jeff, and Rick. You are not anybody's side but your own. Go get your Lexus, mow down some granny's and homeless folks, toast each other's success with some Dom Perignon, while you figure out the next way to screw the working man/women while at the say time making them a slave to your dogma. Someday payback might be a bitch.

And as always, let the eternal light of happiness and bliss shine brightly upon you. x x x o o o
I can't speak for the others but you know virtually nothing about me. I've devoted my life to helping others...........but you're right, I'm not on anybody's side but my own. :roll:

He has selective understanding issues, at least in some respects. In others, I give him all the respect in the world. fdd2blk taught me how to harvest through his tutorial.

Also, being bored, I took a tally of those who expressed an opinion in this thread so far:

Favor ending DADT: 9
Oppose ending DADT: 7

Favor ending DADT:
upnorth2505
beardo
JohnnyOrganic
dukeofbaja
golfddog
Radiate
jesus of Cannabis
oil shell
Stoney McFried

Oppose ending DADT:
fdd2blk
Mcgician
trichlone fiend
MuyLocoNC
RickWhite
jeff f
CrackerJax

After careful obvservation, Doc111 only ever posted hilarious commentary about our debate. Hilarious!

Time for bed....bongload first
Thank you.........I think. I didn't post an opinion because I don't really have one. I was in the military when DADT was instated. It didn't really change anything that I saw, but I served in a recon battalion. Not too many fairies in the Marine Corps. :lol:

BTW, I am not anti-gay. I just like to provide comic relief occasionally. ;-)
 

dukeofbaja

New Member
And the comic relief is much appreciated. My words are sincere.

It kept getting progressively funnier as I browsed post after post, only to realize it was all meta-commentary.
 

kappainf

Well-Known Member
I didn't read any of the posts in this thread. Here are some things to think about: when you are in the military, i.e. basic training, you take showers in groups. The straight guys don't want gays in the shower with them, same for the girls. So that is just one thing that comes to mind right off the bat. How would that work? Would you have male/female gay showers? When deployed overseas rule #1 no sex, no girls in the boy tents, etc. How would things work if gays were openly gay? It won't work, never will, if fags were openly floating around the military, there would be all kinds of hell to deal with.
 

jeff f

New Member
please find the post were i say i oppose anything or favor it. thanks. bongsmilie
yes, me too. i argued both sides as i recall perhaps slightly favoring keeping the current law in place. this must be his attempt to sort out the "good" guys from the bad. :?
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
yes, me too. i argued both sides as i recall perhaps slightly favoring keeping the current law in place. this must be his attempt to sort out the "good" guys from the bad. :?
This time we got accused of only being out for ourselves. Evidently upnorth only reads what he wants to and skips over every thing else. :dunce:
 

jeff f

New Member
All indications are that the open gay policy would hurt recruitment in the general population. The gay population is around 2% of the population, so i hardly think there's any kind of a windfall waiting in the wings there. There are already PLENTY of gays in the military now..... they seem to be just fine.



You nailed it without realizing it. All military personnel ENLIST....volunteer. These are the rules.... if you can live within them....by all means join. Many gays have joined. It's a contract.... In the end, the military does not want any sexuality at all on base, ships....except on leave. then you can go hump a corn field for all the military cares. But for a service of COMBAT.... it's all about keeping the focus to maximum, and the INDIVIDUAL to a minimum. Openly gays increase INDIVIDUALITY amongst the ranks ... and that is NOT what the military desires. Rightfully so.....



The only thing ANYONE is asked is to keep it private.... OPENLY gay is not private. It's disruptive. In the general CIVILIAN population, I have absolutely no problem with anyone expressing their sexuality...but not in the military.



No rights are being taken away. The military wants ALL sexuality to be discreet, unless it bonds the unit. This will not bond the unit...just the opposite.
reminds me of a few things.

its called PDA public displays of affection , in the military. it includes holding hands, kissing, arm in arm, etc. it is highly discouraged and you can actually get disciplinary action for doing it....and thats for straight people.

secondly, you are not allowed to have relations with someone in your chain of command. so a sgt in the battlefield cannot have sex with anybody who falls under or over him in the chain of command. if they are having a relationship, one of the parties must move organizations or units.

this gives a whole other argument. everyone should keep in mind that this isnt society, its the military and the rules are very different...for good reason.
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
reminds me of a few things.

its called PDA public displays of affection , in the military. it includes holding hands, kissing, arm in arm, etc. it is highly discouraged and you can actually get disciplinary action for doing it....and thats for straight people.

secondly, you are not allowed to have relations with someone in your chain of command. so a sgt in the battlefield cannot have sex with anybody who falls under or over him in the chain of command. if they are having a relationship, one of the parties must move organizations or units.

this gives a whole other argument. everyone should keep in mind that this isnt society, its the military and the rules are very different...for good reason.
Fraternization between officer and enlisted is also strictly forbidden regardless of if they are in your chain of command or not. :bigjoint:
 

jeff f

New Member
Fraternization between officer and enlisted is also strictly forbidden regardless of if they are in your chain of command or not. :bigjoint:
actually in the air force it is only "frowned" upon. if you are the enlisted, life will continue as normal. if you are the officer, you will most likely never get another promotion.

but remember, us fly boys are a bunch of pussies anyway. :bigjoint:

reminds me when i was an e-2 i was fucking this hot 2nd lt.......good times, good times...:clap:
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
actually in the air force it is only "frowned" upon. if you are the enlisted, life will continue as normal. if you are the officer, you will most likely never get another promotion.

but remember, us fly boys are a bunch of pussies anyway. :bigjoint:

reminds me when i was an e-2 i was fucking this hot 2nd lt.......good times, good times...:clap:
I dated a Navy nurse for almost 2 years. The Marine Corps and the Navy will kick your ass right the hell out for fraternization. It's definitely worse for the officers than the enlisted. Don't tell my wife but I miss that piece of ass. :hump:
 

dukeofbaja

New Member
Which brings me to the point, they will kick gays out for fraternizing, as well as straight people. Equal treatment. Just like gays should be allowed to admit who they are, same as straight people. Notice I said admit, not flaunt it it like it was Mardi Gras or something.

kappainf, your ignorance is showing. To justify your point of view, you used 'fag' in a non-ironic way. Perhaps we should start calling everyone by their preferred slur?
 

beardo

Well-Known Member
make all gays join military and go to Afghanistan give them their own units and let straight troops serve non combat rolls like we had where women couldnt fight on front lines lets make that for straight troops that way theirs no orphans or widows and if i were showering with a woman my main focus is going to be to have sex so im assuming if gays are " normal " they would be the same
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Which brings me to the point, they will kick gays out for fraternizing, as well as straight people. Equal treatment. Just like gays should be allowed to admit who they are, same as straight people. Notice I said admit, not flaunt it it like it was Mardi Gras or something.

kappainf, your ignorance is showing. To justify your point of view, you used 'fag' in a non-ironic way. Perhaps we should start calling everyone by their preferred slur?
You contradict urself.... and that is part of my point. Openly gay would mean "expressing" urself.... and that is exactly the OPPOSITE of the goals of the military training. they don't want individuals...they want COHESION. Straight or gay behavior is not wanted.... it's a distraction from the MISSION.

The military doesn't WANT it.
 
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