A Tale of The Tape HPA vs 21st Century Flood and Drain

[PSUAGRO.]

I long used 18/6 and tried 24/0 for mj, not tomatoes or peppers. This grow is 14/10 from the git go, and now 11/13 in flower. Th e 14/10 also came from TL.

True.......I've just always veg 24/0 trying to shorten the cycle(impatience), I foolishly assume that what works in the AG industry will work for cannabis cultivation

Ah the GL debate........well this may answer why hps/mh is so successful as a grow light.......How well do those panels by hydrogrowled/Grow stealth lights work??they both incorporate green leds in their designs............

 

[PetFlora]

Might as well cover IR here too. I have stared at these simple charts for a good while before it began to sink in

Again thanks to TL

only the 'crazy ones' (like us) who'd 'need to' (read: 'like playing around with cool stuff') - let's say - have a bunch of IR LEDs on a separate channel, throw 'em on after lights out to 'encourage' the Pr-->Pfr equilibrium during dark reversion back over to the left side of that equation, and shorten the dark cycle duration required for certain short-day plants as a result:

and validated on SkunkSkool

The first and last hour of a day's sunlight is mostly red light because of the scattering effect on blue light. "So at the onset of the dark period much of the phytochrome is in the Pfr form. However, Pfr is unstable and returns to phytochrome Pr in the dark." The red light in sunrise returns the Pr to the Pfr form. "Phytochrome Pfr is the active form and controls flowering and germination. It inhibits flowering of short-day plants (the long night period is required for the conversion of Pfr to Pr) and promotes flowering of long day plants."

 

[Trichy Bastard]

I always figured mimicking mother nature was best and wondered if instant on/off of lights of exactly the same intensity and spectrum throughout the day affected things. Now I am curious just how much they effect things, because the traditional lighting seems to work pretty well nonetheless... This is why I love the prospect of growing outdoors with hp, the idea of having the best of all worlds seems nice.

 

[dickkhead]

Might as well cover IR here too. I have stared at these simple charts for a good while before it began to sink in

Again thanks to TL

only the 'crazy ones' (like us) who'd 'need to' (read: 'like playing around with cool stuff') - let's say - have a bunch of IR LEDs on a separate channel, throw 'em on after lights out to 'encourage' the Pr-->Pfr equilibrium during dark reversion back over to the left side of that equation, and shorten the dark cycle duration required for certain short-day plants as a result:

and validated on SkunkSkool

The first and last hour of a day's sunlight is mostly red light because of the scattering effect on blue light. "So at the onset of the dark period much of the phytochrome is in the Pfr form. However, Pfr is unstable and returns to phytochrome Pr in the dark." The red light in sunrise returns the Pr to the Pfr form. "Phytochrome Pfr is the active form and controls flowering and germination. It inhibits flowering of short-day plants (the long night period is required for the conversion of Pfr to Pr) and promotes flowering of long day plants."

After speaking with George from California light works he told me he removed 740nm from his LEDs cause it hurts mj now I can see hat he meant. I veg on 21-3 although I think 24-0 is best I hate the electric bill! How do you like the 14/10 is it slow? I think strain plays a huge role in how plants react to lighting as well indica and Sativas I think have diff requirements

 

[PetFlora]

Hey DH. First can you do me a favor? I have tried to register with uk420 several times. I never get a confirmation notice. Tried reaching the mods, but it's the old catch 22: you have to be a member. My UN there is PhatNuggz

Now to your question. This grow is 14/10 in veg. When I got ready to flip I went 12/12 for ~ 5 days (thinking some acclimation is a good thing, though I have not seen any studies) then dropped to 11/13 where it will stay until the last week. Will then drop to 10-9.

TB I agree about mimicking mother nature (the best part, not the cloudy days, storms, droughts...), however, I would try the 12/1 cycle if I could find a reasonably priced programmable timer. It's one of things I want to investigate on uk420

Lighting Schedule

I tried 24/0 and 21/3. They work but I am not convinced of their value. As can be seen in the charts above, mj needs a longer dark period. With hydro at least, they continue to get fed; something you would not want to do with soil/media

What I find is my plants grow quite a bit during the dark period, both in veg and in flower (bigger buds over night). Some of this could be due to night feedings, which non automated systems cannot duplicate. Yet another reason to go hydro.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

The way I understand it- the plants take in energy from the sun all day and convert it into sugars, etc. At night it uses the sugars to grow. I read that a plant will carry on "dark period" tasks just as well in the light if its not ever going dark, but it's a complete waste of energy. I belive 18/6 for veg is about all you can get out of them... The other 6 hours are for top growth as well as root growth and you have to figure letting them get a break from the light give them time to repair from the light damage- imagine being in the sun for days straight without some night time re-cooperating...

For what it's worth- it took me over a week to get approved at uk420, it took time, but they eventually got to it...

 

[PetFlora]

As you will see the pistil clusters are developing very nicely. Since Monday, it seems like they are doubling each night.

As per my 7 day routine, I flushed, then added fresh nutes to the F & D

Finally ran out of DM Gold A/B, now using DM Grow ONE & Potash+ @ ~ 700ppm

Photos

1 is the shortest now ~ 20"
2 is 24" (note larger root pic). She has much longer branches than #1
3-4 is the monster; #4 I tried to show how much the main stem has grown since I snapped her
5-6 are roots with ~ 2 weeks in better coverage. Note: the white roots grew since I added the 3rd mist head position



Close up root hair shot of #6. Hard to see without a macro lens, but they're there covering all the new roots.

 

[PetFlora]

Hermie is the 1/4 of my F1 cross that is not a female. I decided to grow it out to give away; many waiters prefer it as tips, so it's a win win.

It has been fed the same diet as the rest of this grow, until today. I got a free sample of Hydro-Research Veg + BLOOM. Today is flush and fresh nute day, so I decided to finish Hermie off with V & B. 2 tsp in ~ 2g RO = 660ppm; no pH needed right at 5.7

The set up is my small clone closet using a combination of a 3 yo UFO 90 + 4 small cfls as side lighting. The AP with lava rock is sitting on a AP bottom grate under which is 4 large Oxystones. Its been in this set up for over a week and seems to be very happy.

Sty tuned for updates

View attachment 2183805

 

[PetFlora]

Fuck Hermie. Always need a Plan B

Up in the main tent area I was finishing a clone from the mother of my cross in a corner of the F & D space.

This clone is close to finishing and I was trying to let her do so under the T5s. However, her niece is crowding the space to the point it was necessary to move her. So out with Hermie: it can finish outside.

What I especially like about this is, I will be finishing the clone with V & B nutes. And am considering doing the same in the F & D. The original plan was to see how the hpa v my 21st Century F & D, but since the 2 plants in F & D are expressing ~ 90% Indica, whereas she is expressing > 85% Sat. Just one or two of her side branches will be almost as big as the two in hpa

Pics soon - drinking morning coffee just now. What's exciting is that she's one of the side branches from the original mother, and well she looks like a Thai Stick. Better still her niece has 10+ similarly long branches. This one is ~ 20"



These are of the sat dom cross. She is ~ 2ft+ in diameter. Her main stalk is 3-4xs thicker than the 2 Indica doms in hpa, so an AB is really moot, however. I will keep ppms similar. I removed the Bellagio water set up now letting the nutes just flow directly into the top of the lava rock.

 

[dickkhead]

Hey DH. First can you do me a favor? I have tried to register with uk420 several times. I never get a confirmation notice. Tried reaching the mods, but it's the old catch 22: you have to be a member. My UN there is PhatNuggz

Now to your question. This grow is 14/10 in veg. When I got ready to flip I went 12/12 for ~ 5 days (thinking some acclimation is a good thing, though I have not seen any studies) then dropped to 11/13 where it will stay until the last week. Will then drop to 10-9.

TB I agree about mimicking mother nature (the best part, not the cloudy days, storms, droughts...), however, I would try the 12/1 cycle if I could find a reasonably priced programmable timer. It's one of things I want to investigate on uk420

Lighting Schedule

I tried 24/0 and 21/3. They work but I am not convinced of their value. As can be seen in the charts above, mj needs a longer dark period. With hydro at least, they continue to get fed; something you would not want to do with soil/media

What I find is my plants grow quite a bit during the dark period, both in veg and in flower (bigger buds over night). Some of this could be due to night feedings, which non automated systems cannot duplicate. Yet another reason to go hydro.

Whats the favor pet? If u want to do the 12/1 cycle wouldn't a drt-1 timer work?

The way I understand it- the plants take in energy from the sun all day and convert it into sugars, etc. At night it uses the sugars to grow. I read that a plant will carry on "dark period" tasks just as well in the light if its not ever going dark, but it's a complete waste of energy. I belive 18/6 for veg is about all you can get out of them... The other 6 hours are for top growth as well as root growth and you have to figure letting them get a break from the light give them time to repair from the light damage- imagine being in the sun for days straight without some night time re-cooperating...

For what it's worth- it took me over a week to get approved at uk420, it took time, but they eventually got to it...

I'm still playing around with it but I did notice faster growth on 24/0 people say thy don't sleep? But in other threads I've heard about longer dark periods working well. I guess I never thought of it as theyre constantly getting stimulated from the light n need rest maybe this adds to why they stretch so much when going to 12/12 cause of all the stored energy ontop of temp drop. I guess it would be like always training every day and not allowing any rest days you'd get into a state of over training n not grow! Mike mentzer heavy duty training is a good example u train 3 days a week n recover the rest. Less is more sometimes I guess

 

[PetFlora]

the favor would be to contact uk420 and ask why PetFlora has gotten past registration 4 times, but never receives confirmation

DRT: I actually have an MDT. I do not believe they can be programmed beyond one o/o setting. If I understand it correctly, I believe the 12/1 cycle requires at least 3 different settings: 12 on, one off, 5 on, ? That's why I am keen to register at uk420

 

[PetFlora]

For anyone considering LEDs:

Ed R speaking about LED spectrums and NASA study on Green LEDs (Nov 2010) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P31l6tImo0A&feature=related

Of course green is amply covered in newst generation Cree Warm/Cool Whites, as are other important spectrums, like yellow and orange

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Just thinkin, why don't you pollinate the hermie with itself, and make your own feminised seeds for fun? I think that's how it's done...

 

[Trichy Bastard]

the favor would be to contact uk420 and ask why PetFlora has gotten past registration 4 times, but never receives confirmation

DRT: I actually have an MDT. I do not believe they can be programmed beyond one o/o setting. If I understand it correctly, I believe the 12/1 cycle requires at least 3 different settings: 12 on, one off, 5 on, ? That's why I am keen to register at uk420

Sure u checked spam folder, etc? Might try a totally new name, and start from scratch, if it still doesnt work then... I'll try to email them if I can, are you petflora or phatnuggz there?

 

[PetFlora]

Just thinkin, why don't you pollinate the hermie with itself, and make your own feminized seeds for fun? I think that's how it's done...

I did some research on this, but the potential is for more hermies. Now, if you have room to bring > 20 seedlings to sexing then yeah

 

[PetFlora]

Sure u checked spam folder, etc? Might try a totally new name, and start from scratch, if it still doesnt work then... I'll try to email them if I can, are you petflora or phatnuggz there?

I checked Spam folders.

PhatNuggz, a UN I wish I had thought of instead of PF.

I am able to register it. I see registration was successful, you will get a confirmation email, but I never get confirmation.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

I checked Spam folders.

PhatNuggz, a UN I wish I had thought of instead of PF.

I am able to register it. I see registration was successful, you will get a confirmation email, but I never get confirmation.

Understood... The confirmation took a week perhaps 1.5 weeks for me, are you still in that timeframe?

 

[PetFlora]

^^ possibly, but no rush.

 

[PetFlora]

I just checked my plants. The buds being fed V & B nutes already look much bigger than the hpa side (DM Gold A & B)

However, by comparison, the clone finishing up downstairs, which has been getting V & B a few more days does not appear to be bulking up as much. Most likely this can be explained: either she is to close to finish to make a big leap, or, she is not benefiting from as much light, or the same quality of light.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

^^ possibly, but no rush.

Ok, update if you get access, in meanwhile I will try to email...