tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
Outgrowing bronze-aged fairy-tales and making the move toward modern knowledge and reality is more important...
How do I get to heaven? Answers to your questions on eternal life.
- Thread starter OldGrowth420
- Start date
OldGrowth420
Well-Known Member
Reality is based upon experience, and my experience leads me tword God and even proves His existence.
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
Reality is based on no one's experience, one's perception of reality is. I understand your limited experience led you to your belief, but you aren't telling anyone anything they don't know, so why keep posting well-known dogma? It's just masturbation, and it's gross. You should have the decency to do that in private, or at least around those who express a desire to watch...
OldGrowth420
Well-Known Member
I have traveled the country and done just about everything there is to do and experience and my perception is certainly not limited. Some people don't know these things, and these are the people i am speaking to. If anyone chooses hell, or chooses not to believe that is their own choice and I'm powerless. John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." Some people will never realize the truth, and there is nothing i can do about that. I am here for God's chosen. Matthew 22: 14 "For many are invited, but few are chosen." I have a feeling that you are invited, but it is up to you to answer the call. I would guess you have prayed the prayer, now you just have to choose to believe.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
This is something that requires addressing. This is an assumption in Christianity. It plays off an odds game, as most people "sin", but it's actually a huge generalization, not only because "sin" as outlined by practicing Christians by example is quite clearly subjective, whether it's outlined as objective in the Bible, I'm sure all of us, even the religious among us can agree even the most staunch Christians cherry pick their own personal dogma depending on their lifestyle.
A system created by an all powerful being wouldn't require secondary contributions to work properly
Again, this is not a system that would have been designed by an all powerful being, just think about it for a moment...
Again... not a system that would have been designed by a being with unlimited amounts of power..
There are sins that humanity can commit that will eliminate any possibility for forgiveness. Ask yourself.. is this the quality of a supreme being? Is this the quality of an omnibenevolent being? Is a finite crime punishable by infinite torment justice?
What if God chooses to infect a child with cancer 9 years into its life? Is God's judgment "right" then?
automated
Active Member
What do you expect you'll be doing when you enter either of those Oldgrowth420 ? (heaven or hell)
Any plans ? any instructions ? cos, all them books claim/describe the truth of god and how to pass judgement which will lead you to either.
But I have never read anything about what your suposed to do when you get there, or the instructions on how to behave once there for that matter.
What if you get into heaven and its a big let down ? can you become abusive and get booted down still ?
Or, if you went down, and behave well, is there still chance to attone ? or is his judgement final ?
I personally believe in neither, but its something I've been wanting to ask, not to spite or undermine.
Any plans ? any instructions ? cos, all them books claim/describe the truth of god and how to pass judgement which will lead you to either.
But I have never read anything about what your suposed to do when you get there, or the instructions on how to behave once there for that matter.
What if you get into heaven and its a big let down ? can you become abusive and get booted down still ?
Or, if you went down, and behave well, is there still chance to attone ? or is his judgement final ?
I personally believe in neither, but its something I've been wanting to ask, not to spite or undermine.
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
Wow! You've traveled the entire country and have done just about everything there is to do and experience? Never heard anyone say that before. Please share some of your most interesting experiences with psychedelic drugs and sexual encounters with multiple partners, parachuting and bungee jumping, cave diving and flying small aircraft. I'll bet it's fascinating. Your perception is not limited? Perhaps you'd be kind enough to share the major literary works that you've read that go against christian ideas, and your take on the works of your favorite philosophers?
Who have you run across on this forum who doesn't know these things?
OldGrowth420
Well-Known Member
What if God chooses to infect a child with cancer 9 years into its life? Is God's judgment "right" then?
I seriously doubt God would infect a child with cancer.
God is both kind and severe, and it's really none of business to judge anything that He does.
He loves me enough to sacrifice His own Son in a horribly painful and demeaning way to save us, that is Love to me.
And if God wants to condemn us or save us how is that any of my business? He created me, gave me love and a family and a great country and a beautiful earth to thrive on, not to mention chose me to inherit eternal life and gave me the chance to become one of His sons. I fear God, and rightly so.. And I'm not about to question anything He does or judge Him in any way. He blesses me and afflicts me and I'm content with whatever he gives me because i know that God is right and i deserve what i get.
I seriously doubt God would infect a child with cancer.
God is both kind and severe, and it's really none of business to judge anything that He does.
He loves me enough to sacrifice His own Son in a horribly painful and demeaning way to save us, that is Love to me.
And if God wants to condemn us or save us how is that any of my business? He created me, gave me love and a family and a great country and a beautiful earth to thrive on, not to mention chose me to inherit eternal life and gave me the chance to become one of His sons. I fear God, and rightly so.. And I'm not about to question anything He does or judge Him in any way. He blesses me and afflicts me and I'm content with whatever he gives me because i know that God is right and i deserve what i get.
OldGrowth420
Well-Known Member
1 Corinthians 2:9 However, as it is written: "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived" -- the things God has prepared for those who love him--
I can't wait to get to heaven, I've heard accounts of people who were taken to heaven by God and it sounds like an absolutely marvelous place. From what i have heard the moment you think to do something it happens, the music is more incredible than anything imaginable and flows directly from God's spiritual body. Every saved person has there own paradise especially designed to suit them in heaven. I imagine mine will be full of redwood like giant trees and mountain streams and flowers in every direction as far s the eye can see, with amazing people to enjoy it with. When we get to heaven we have the mind of Christ according to the experiences i have heard and only think on good wholesome things, there is no sex, and no sin. So there is really nothing to fight over or get bummed out about.
I just plan to worship God an enjoy life much like i do here, and i know God will give me anything i want or could imagine wanting.
I know that alot of angels were kicked out of heaven for rebelling against God but i have no idea if we can somehow fall out of God's graces and get kicked out.
His judgement is final, once you are sent to hell thats it. No coming back, just endless torment.
ILikePotAlot
Member
I tend to forget everything after genesis, I cannot be bad for God made us all god within man.
OldGrowth420
Well-Known Member
I have never parachuted or bungee jumped or flown small aircraft as i am afraid of heights, but I've mountain climbed, white water rafted, had orgies, taken nearly every drug known to man, been engaged, slept with ten women, drove and hitchhiked nearly all of the country minus some deep south and most of the east coast, read many great works of literature and taken enough drugs to forget them. I wouldn't read anything that i know could hurt my faith as it is most valuable to me, and i certainly don't condone the sinful things that i have done when i wasn't following God. But i can tell you that sin left me feeling empty and used up and the only wholesome things i have found in life are loving God and others, the love of a woman, experiencing the earth, and listening to good music or good concerts. And experiencing the arts. The sex was meaningless and left me feeling dirty grimy and ashamed. The drugs polluted my body and used up my once brilliant mind, and all my experiences have shown me the futility of life on this earth and the importance of living a Godly life, and i honestly can't see how anyone could be diverted from this conclusion. Read Proverbs and Ecclesiastes in the bible, Solomon the wisest an who has ever lived had the same conclusion. My favorite writers are Emerson and some Thoreau. I admire C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien and i really dig Star Wars. I also really dig good indie films and beautiful poetry. I listen to classic psychedelic rock from the 60's and also enjoy Folk music and blues and Classical. I love attending concerts, going to plays, and seeing Philharmonic performances and curling up under a tree or anywhere outside with a good inspiring book.
Not to mention long walks on the beach lol
This is starting to sound like a dating ad.
InceptorProventus
Member
No offense but, get your head out of the bible and approach it with a "open mind". No human can write down the exact rules and regulations for one person to follow. We are all unique and the process to witch we acquire "ascension" is unique too. Every human being knows right from wrong, it's our social environment that influences darkness and evil to creep in.
The christian bible is heavily based upon the BagvadGita from India, predating early Christianity by over 4 000 years, and if anything conveys the true meaning of existence as it is, without endless stories do's and don't do's. Even the Koran from Islam conveys the message across better than the Bible can.
Fact of the matter is it all comes down to LOVE, learning to love yourself before loving others, cause how can we attempt at a unified species when we can't except yourself, flaws and differences. Love, respect and acceptance is key to enlighten ourselves to the infinite probabilities after our vessel (body) has served it's purpose.
The christian bible is heavily based upon the BagvadGita from India, predating early Christianity by over 4 000 years, and if anything conveys the true meaning of existence as it is, without endless stories do's and don't do's. Even the Koran from Islam conveys the message across better than the Bible can.
Fact of the matter is it all comes down to LOVE, learning to love yourself before loving others, cause how can we attempt at a unified species when we can't except yourself, flaws and differences. Love, respect and acceptance is key to enlighten ourselves to the infinite probabilities after our vessel (body) has served it's purpose.
automated
Active Member
That is one of the reasons I dont really believe in god's heaven or hell though.
His word is final, but will chance his mind when he doesnt like how his underlings behave.
In my opinion it seems to be a wrathfull/resentfull god too, once you get sent to hell, there is no going back.
These are the characteristics of a tyrant I believe, and not an all loving god.
In the real world we have all these rules, which apparently become worthless once you enter heaven. (no sex for example)
Seriously, one of the worlds most practiced activities suddenly gets erased.
I could imagine, a couple having entered heaven, having loved the sprituality of their intercourse, which can now only hold hands, getting upset.
(I would imagine this being a severe let down)
This piece of Corinthians 2:9, suggestes that nooone has seen, heard or conceived it (heaven), yet, there have been people whom apparently been brought there and back and shared their experiences as you described them (rather detailed too).
Or am I totally missing something here ?
His word is final, but will chance his mind when he doesnt like how his underlings behave.
In my opinion it seems to be a wrathfull/resentfull god too, once you get sent to hell, there is no going back.
These are the characteristics of a tyrant I believe, and not an all loving god.
In the real world we have all these rules, which apparently become worthless once you enter heaven. (no sex for example)
Seriously, one of the worlds most practiced activities suddenly gets erased.
I could imagine, a couple having entered heaven, having loved the sprituality of their intercourse, which can now only hold hands, getting upset.
(I would imagine this being a severe let down)
This piece of Corinthians 2:9, suggestes that nooone has seen, heard or conceived it (heaven), yet, there have been people whom apparently been brought there and back and shared their experiences as you described them (rather detailed too).
Or am I totally missing something here ?
OldGrowth420
Well-Known Member
I think my mind could not be more open when approaching the bible as i believe what it says. It seems risky to say that two billion people are wrong and that you know what happens after death better than those two billion people, and all of the divinely inspired prophets of God. The bible was written through man by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Bible in no way borrows from any text and is inspired by God.
OldGrowth420
Well-Known Member
[h=1]Fulfilled Bible Prophecy[/h]
A scientist picked out 48 such prophecies and determined that the probability of one man randomly fulfilling them all is 1 in 10 to the exponent of 157. That is one followed by 157 zeros! Your chances of winning a typical lottery jackpot is about 1 in 108. (100,000,000). Yet, Jesus fulfilled all these prophecies! Please read It Was Not Finished!
Today, the only way Bible scoffers can explain away this astronomical probability is to discredit the prophecies in one way or another. The Bible foretold of these scoffers in 2nd Peter 3:3-4...
Their only alternative is to accept that God is the author of the Scriptures. The Bible is a reliable book of genuine divine prophecy. You can trust it! Please don't be fooled by the hordes of Christ-rejecters who deny the Bible.
The evidence of divine prophecy presented here is just a tiny portion of the proofs available to establish the divine origin of the Bible. Yet, they are more than sufficient to prove the inspiration of the Bible. There will always be men who scoff at the Bible. You, however, can be confident when you read your Bible that God is the Author, for it is written:
“Prophecy is history written in advance.”—Oliver B. Greene
The Word of God is a book containing hundreds of detailed prophecies. This page presents numerous prophecies concerning our Precious Saviour, Jesus Christ. Not only were the predictions made 1,000 years before Christ came from Heaven to earth, but they were made over 500 years before crucifixion was first used anywhere in the world as a form of capital punishment! Crucifixion didn't exist when the prophecies were made. The Old Testament prophets wrote as they were moved by the Holy Ghost, "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" -2nd Peter 1:21.A scientist picked out 48 such prophecies and determined that the probability of one man randomly fulfilling them all is 1 in 10 to the exponent of 157. That is one followed by 157 zeros! Your chances of winning a typical lottery jackpot is about 1 in 108. (100,000,000). Yet, Jesus fulfilled all these prophecies! Please read It Was Not Finished!
| Concerning his birth | Prophesied | Fulfilled |
| 1. Born of the seed of woman | Gen 3:15 | Gal 4:4 |
| 2. Born of a virgin | Isaiah 7:14 | Mt 1:18-25 |
| 3. Seed of Abraham | Gen 22:18 | Mt 1:1 |
| 4. Seed of Isaac | Gen 21:12 | Luke 3:23+34 |
| 5. Seed of Jacob | Num 24:17 | Luke 3:34 |
| 6. Seed of David | Jeremiah 23:5 | Luke 3:31 |
| 7. Tribe of Judah | Gen 49:10 | Rev 5:5 |
| 8. Family line of Jesse | Isaiah 11:1 | Luke 3:32 |
| 9. Born in Bethlehem | Micah 5:2 | Mt 2:1-6 |
| 10. Herod kills the children | Jeremiah 31:15 | Mt 2:16-18 |
| [h=2]Concerning his nature [/h] | [h=2]Prophesied [/h] | [h=2]Fulfilled [/h] |
| 11. He pre-existed creation | Mic 5:2 | 1 Pet 1:20 |
| 12. He shall be called Lord | Ps 110:1 | Acts 2:36 |
| 13. Called Immanuel (God with us) | Isaiah 7:14 | Mt 1:22-23 |
| 14. Prophet | Deut 18:18-19 | Acts 3:18-25 |
| 15. Priest | Ps 110:4 | Heb 5:5-6 |
| 16. Judge | Isaiah 33:22 | Jn 5:22-23 |
| 17. King | Ps 2:6 | Jn 18:33-37 |
| 18. Anointed by the Spirit | Isaiah 11:2 | Mt 3:16-17 |
| 19. His zeal for God | Ps 69:9 | Jn 2:15-17 |
| [h=2]Concerning his ministry [/h] | [h=2]Prophesied [/h] | [h=2]Fulfilled [/h] |
| 20. Preceded by a messenger | Isaiah 40:3 | Mt 3:1-3 |
| 21. To begin in Galilee | Isaiah 9:1-2 | Mt 4:12-17 |
| 22. Ministry of Miracles | Isaiah 35:5-6 | Mt 9:35;11:4 |
| 23. Teacher of parables | Ps 78:1-4 | Mt 13:34-35 |
| 24. He was to enter the temple | Mal 3:1 | Mt 21:10-12 |
| 25. Enter Jerusalem on donkey | Zech 9:9 | Mt 21:1-7 |
| 26. Stone of stumbling to Jews | Isaiah 28:16; Ps 118:22 | 1 Pet 2:6-8 |
| 27. Light to Gentiles | Isaiah 49:6 | Acts 13:46-48 |
| [h=2]The day Jesus was crucified [/h] | [h=2]Prophesied [/h] | [h=2]Fulfilled [/h] |
| 28. Betrayed by a friend | Psalm 41:9 | John 13:18-27 |
| 29. Sold for 30 pieces of silver | Zech 11:12 | Matthew 26:14-15 |
| 30. 30 pieces thrown in Temple | Zech 11:13 | Matthew 27:3-5 |
| 31. 30 pieces buys potters field | Zech 11:13 | Matthew 27:6-10 |
| 32. Forsaken by His disciples | Zech 13:7 | Mark 14:27+50 |
| 33. Accused by false witnesses | Psalm 35:11+20-21 | Matthew 26:59-61 |
| 34. Silent before accusers | Isaiah 53:7 | Matthew 27:12-14 |
| 35. Wounded and bruised | Isaiah 53:4-6 | 1 Pet 2:21-25 |
| 36. Beaten and spit upon | Isaiah 50:6 | Matthew 26:67-68 |
| 37. Mocked | Psalm 22:6-8 | Matthew 27:27-31 |
| 38. Fell under the cross | Psalm 109:24-25 | John 19:17; Lk23:26 |
| 39. Hands and feet pierced | Psalm 22:16 | John 20:24-28 |
| 40. Crucified with thieves | Isaiah 53:12 | Mt 27:38 |
| 41. Prayed for enemies | Isaiah 53:12 | Luke 23:34 |
| 42. Rejected by His own people | Isaiah 53:3 | John 19:14-15 |
| 43. Hated without cause | Psalm 69:4 | John 15:25 |
| 44. Friends stood aloof | Psalm 38:11 | Luke 22:54;23:49 |
| 45. People wag their heads | Ps 22:7;109:25 | Mt 27:39 |
| 46. People stared at Him | Ps 22:17 | Lk 23:35 |
| 47. Cloths divided and gambled for | Ps 22:18 | Jn 19:23-24 |
| 48. Became very thirsty | Ps 22:15 | Jn 19:28 |
| 49. Gall and vinegar offered Him | Ps 69:21 | Mt 27:34 |
| 50. His forsaken cry | Ps 22:1 | Mt 27:46 |
| 51. Committed Himself to God | Ps 31:5 | Lk 23:46 |
| 52. Bones not broken | Ps 34:20 | Jn 19:32-36 |
| 53. Heart broken | Ps 69:20;22:14 | Jn 19:34 |
| 54. His side pierced | Zech 12:10 | Jn 19:34+37 |
| 55. Darkness over the land | Amos 8:9 | Lk 23:44-45 |
| 56. Buried in rich man's tomb | Isa 53:9 | Mt 27:57-60 |
| [h=2]His Resurrection & Ascension [/h] | [h=2]Prophesied [/h] | [h=2]Fulfilled [/h] |
| 57. Raised from the dead | Ps 16:8-11 | Acts 2:24-31 |
| 58. Begotten as Son of God | Ps 2:7 | Acts 13:32-35 |
| 59. Ascended to God | Ps 68:18 | Eph 2:8-10 |
| 60. Seated beside God | Ps 110:1 | Heb 1:3+13 |
"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming?"
The evidence of divine prophecy presented here is just a tiny portion of the proofs available to establish the divine origin of the Bible. Yet, they are more than sufficient to prove the inspiration of the Bible. There will always be men who scoff at the Bible. You, however, can be confident when you read your Bible that God is the Author, for it is written:
"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe" -1st Thessalonians 2:13
taken from http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/fulfilled_prophecy.htm
taken from http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/fulfilled_prophecy.htm
OldGrowth420
Well-Known Member
The thing is He doesn't change His mind, His Word is our judge and never changes. God doesn't change his ideals He constantly lives by them. His eternal edicts condemn us, but there are very few to follow as i have outlined them in this thread.
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. -1 Corinthians 6:9-10
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Revelation 21:8
God is sometimes angry and sometimes wrathful
[h=3]Romans 11:22[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed, but kind to you if you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off.
He created us in His image so you can imagine He feels similarly the emotions we feel.
[h=3]Genesis 1:27[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
I believe and from the experiences i have heard that we don't remember much of our lives on earth to be sad about not having them any more. Being in heaven will be an ecstasy and we will probably feel so fulfilled as to not need things like sex.
I am thinking that when these individuals went to heaven they were in spirit bodies, so that verse doesn't really apply to them as they didn't use their ears or their eyes for anything.
OldGrowth420
Well-Known Member
He is severe when we disobey to keep us in line, and we choose our own path, whether to trust in Christ and be saved or to deny Him and go to hell.
In essence we condemn ourselves. The choice is clear. Believe in Jesus, and His resurrection and be saved.
It takes only the smallest faith, even if you don't believe just choose to and try your best.
Just say Jesus is Lord and believe that He rose from the dead!
In essence we condemn ourselves. The choice is clear. Believe in Jesus, and His resurrection and be saved.
It takes only the smallest faith, even if you don't believe just choose to and try your best.
Just say Jesus is Lord and believe that He rose from the dead!
Right, in a similar point to what padawan previously said, do you honestly believe that this ALMIGHTY BEING requires us to say HE (you sure this thing has a gender?) rose from the dead? If i can realise that the majority of religons have been used as form of social control, rather than as true points of worship, surely Jesus or God can realise that. they are horribly tainted and don't really have anything to do with faith, and vowing your faith to them would actually be a really reckless & stupid move. Surely this almighty being can just look into our souls or whatever and just quickly check if we are good or bad?
I really hope this is the case, as i personally am never going to fully back something i do not, and will never understand, as this might cause more ill-informed people to do the same.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
In order to have any meaningful conversation, you need to get away from definitive answers and approach the questions as legitimate possibilities.
You're saying "why would he?", then in the very next breath say "well if he did, it would still be right because he's God". So already you're leaving no wiggle room. To you, God could murder hundreds of babies (like he's done multiple times before throughout history according to the bible) and it would still be right because God did it. That is the type of thinking that leads to the darker parts of organized religion.
OldGrowth420
Well-Known Member
? (Noticing the skirting of the fulfillment of biblical prophecy.)