20,000 Watt Medical Grow Op Construction
- Thread starter collective gardener
- Start date
Wolverine97
Well-Known Member
Aye aye cap'n! Good to have you back. The dogs and I are all healing up well so far, the doc gave me Augmentin to keep infection away. Excited to see some results with the new Grotek line, do keep us posted, both of you (stern glance at kitty).
Beansly
RIU Bulldog
Hey kitty, if you haven't decided on what you're gonna put in the compost 'tea bag' look into using General Hydroponics Ancient Forest. I think it's composted forest topsoil, but it's jam packed with humic and fulvic acid and TONS beneficial bacteria and fungi. Heisenberg uses it as a base in his compost teas and he says it good stuff.
Wolverine97
Well-Known Member
Indeed, that's what I use for my base when making tea. Tis good shite, I also amend my soil with it about 5%.
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
Fucking Simon guilted me into thinking more seriously about lowering my eco footprint. Watch out when he starts talking about the amazing results of Cuban farmers using old school dirt farming techniques. Their per acre yields are crushing Big Agro Chem Grown Mid West yields. This from a country virtually without access to any commercial fertilizer. Amazing shit.
But...and a BIG BUT...I be digging my current results with rockwool and will be rocking that for another year or so. We'll get off the AN and on something else that works as good.
I've had time to process a little of what I learned from Simon, the "Organic Mechanic". Tip of the day: Do not use any carbs. If there is a microherd in your medium, the sugar will supercharge them, and they will rob your roots of oxygen, possibly paving the way for anerobic growth.
I'm off to the grow. We harvest the first 3 Tahoe x Chemdog today. Hell ya. I can't wait to drop some on our members. I vend to a delivery service that's watering at the mouth for some. Today is 8 weeks. It was supposed to be a 7 weeker...but we scoped it, and at 7 weeks triches were still very clear. Yesterday, we had about 50% milky, but no amber. This is my new harvest point...no more than 50% milky.
But...and a BIG BUT...I be digging my current results with rockwool and will be rocking that for another year or so. We'll get off the AN and on something else that works as good.
I've had time to process a little of what I learned from Simon, the "Organic Mechanic". Tip of the day: Do not use any carbs. If there is a microherd in your medium, the sugar will supercharge them, and they will rob your roots of oxygen, possibly paving the way for anerobic growth.
I'm off to the grow. We harvest the first 3 Tahoe x Chemdog today. Hell ya. I can't wait to drop some on our members. I vend to a delivery service that's watering at the mouth for some. Today is 8 weeks. It was supposed to be a 7 weeker...but we scoped it, and at 7 weeks triches were still very clear. Yesterday, we had about 50% milky, but no amber. This is my new harvest point...no more than 50% milky.
Jozikins
Well-Known Member
I did some outdoor tomatoes this year, and the ones in my own custom engineered soil did very well with early fruit baring, but it was the dirt, the ground soil that I amended, bore fruit later on, but many many more sets of flowers, and if the freeze didn't kill them off, I'm sure bigger yields. Natural ground soil gave me much better over all health and the leaf sets were fucking HUGE!! Same variety, different seeds, but there was no contest. The dirt was much slower to start as well, but once it did, it crushed anything I could have made myself.
I am convinced that outdoor in amended dirt is the way to grow anything, assuming you have already been amending outdoor gardens and have good dirt to start with. Although I just moved out, my grow partners still live in the mountain home, and it had amazing soil, alkaline though, easy to correct. But indoor hydroponics and potting mix is what I'm basically stuck with considering how close neighbors are, the size of the yard up in the mountains, and especially how close to neighbors now that I am temporarily in an apartment, closer to your area. But I will be moving into a house soon, so we'll see how private my backyard is.
Anyways, I wish I could have tasted those tom's growing in dirt.
Anyways, please elaborate a little more on carbs and your medium. We are talking with all mediums here, correct? And by carbs, you do mean any products containing any form of sugar, including a product like Sweet Raw, which, is understood to be just magnesium sulfate, but I have accidentally ingested water with Sweet Raw in it (I thought it was my water jug, I never use jugs for nutrients, one exception) and it is very sweet. That is how I immediately knew that I had drank the ph'd Sweet Raw water. The next day you can smell the magnesium sulfate in your pee, I got an unexpected nose full of that the next morning, was weird, Botanicare left me back a voicemail saying I would be fine, a little late though, lol. Anyways, products like Sweet Raw and Sugar Daddy or recommended by the fertilizer company, should these be excluded or replaced with a different supplement?
Also, I use lots of carbs in my tea, I use blackstrap molasses, should I exclude the molasses from my tea mix? I know Dr. Benton Jones and Dr. Elaine Ingham both recommend molasses in tea, but I've also heard from several other highly reputable names that using a good carbon source with a great natural humic resource is just as good, if not better. I know neither you or your friend at Grotek are the authority on these sciences, but I highly value these opinions, especially with basically real-time updates on your progress and experiences.
Would also like to hear some input from Wolverine on this.
EDIT:
Infact, on the note of using a natural humic acid, Dr. Benton Jones recently stated in his article in a recent edition of Maximum Yield, that there is no supplement that contest with real humic acid taken from the earth.
I am convinced that outdoor in amended dirt is the way to grow anything, assuming you have already been amending outdoor gardens and have good dirt to start with. Although I just moved out, my grow partners still live in the mountain home, and it had amazing soil, alkaline though, easy to correct. But indoor hydroponics and potting mix is what I'm basically stuck with considering how close neighbors are, the size of the yard up in the mountains, and especially how close to neighbors now that I am temporarily in an apartment, closer to your area. But I will be moving into a house soon, so we'll see how private my backyard is.
Anyways, I wish I could have tasted those tom's growing in dirt.
Anyways, please elaborate a little more on carbs and your medium. We are talking with all mediums here, correct? And by carbs, you do mean any products containing any form of sugar, including a product like Sweet Raw, which, is understood to be just magnesium sulfate, but I have accidentally ingested water with Sweet Raw in it (I thought it was my water jug, I never use jugs for nutrients, one exception) and it is very sweet. That is how I immediately knew that I had drank the ph'd Sweet Raw water. The next day you can smell the magnesium sulfate in your pee, I got an unexpected nose full of that the next morning, was weird, Botanicare left me back a voicemail saying I would be fine, a little late though, lol. Anyways, products like Sweet Raw and Sugar Daddy or recommended by the fertilizer company, should these be excluded or replaced with a different supplement?
Also, I use lots of carbs in my tea, I use blackstrap molasses, should I exclude the molasses from my tea mix? I know Dr. Benton Jones and Dr. Elaine Ingham both recommend molasses in tea, but I've also heard from several other highly reputable names that using a good carbon source with a great natural humic resource is just as good, if not better. I know neither you or your friend at Grotek are the authority on these sciences, but I highly value these opinions, especially with basically real-time updates on your progress and experiences.
Would also like to hear some input from Wolverine on this.
EDIT:
Infact, on the note of using a natural humic acid, Dr. Benton Jones recently stated in his article in a recent edition of Maximum Yield, that there is no supplement that contest with real humic acid taken from the earth.
mellokitty
Moderatrix of Journals
i'm just so happy someone knows what i deal with in my regular botanical grind now .... simon'll casually mention something and i'll end up going home and researching it for the rest of the day.
some examples: "bacterial action tends to raise pH, fungal action tends to lower it"
"the action of N-setting bacteria are actually suppressed by the presence of non-amino-form N"
"high levels of phosphorus inhibit mycorrhizal fungi"
..... and of course, by the time i've had a second to be like "wtf, really?" he's light-years ahead of me discussing yet another botanical concept that's way beyond me.
(i wish i could post the back-and-forth email i had with him about biochar on here.... i felt like i should have paid tuition afterwards.)
some examples: "bacterial action tends to raise pH, fungal action tends to lower it"
"the action of N-setting bacteria are actually suppressed by the presence of non-amino-form N"
"high levels of phosphorus inhibit mycorrhizal fungi"
..... and of course, by the time i've had a second to be like "wtf, really?" he's light-years ahead of me discussing yet another botanical concept that's way beyond me.
(i wish i could post the back-and-forth email i had with him about biochar on here.... i felt like i should have paid tuition afterwards.)
Jozikins
Well-Known Member
Those two were very intriguing to me. Good to know. The first example actually explained a lot to me, and I understand sooooo much more about my organic garden now. Seriously, that was half my questions I had for someone that I never real thought of answered, about both my teas and sometimes my run off.
Wolverine97
Well-Known Member
Hmm... the carb thing is interesting. I can see the logic behind it, but I'd imagine that the oxygen levels could be maintained by using Smart Pots or other air pruning containers. Admittedly, I'm guessing here, but it seems to be logical. And I'm with you on the milky trich's, I never (well, almost never) let mine go amber. My Super Lemon Haze does it on its own, regardless of harvest time, but other than that it's clear to milky.
Wolverine97
Well-Known Member
Well I'm curious to hear more as well. I can understand how the microbes would use up all available oxygen within their little sphere of life, but if you're using containers such as Smart Pots I would think that would allow for replenishment. But then again, I've never seen too much need for carb supplements to feed microbes. As long as there is an organic supply of nutrients present with sufficient moisture, they will flourish.
As for using carbs in your tea, I see that as a different issue altogether. You need carbs in the tea to get the microbe population up in the first place. I can't really speak intelligently on this, my knowledge of teas and the intricacies of the soil food web is still in development. I can produce the results, but I can't say that I clearly understand all of the principles, yet.
Jozikins
Well-Known Member
For the first time ever I actually let my plants go 20-30% milky, maybe even way past what I would normally ever consider reasonable at 40% on one plant these last 2 rounds, and although the extra time it takes for it to happen is not justifiable economically, it really enhances the pain and nausea specific medicinal effects of my Sativas. And that combined with the all organic diet has really really turned the smell into something very very interesting. But my plants have always been devastatingly dank and have great medicinal value. Even when I never let a single one go amber, and had nearly even milky and clear trichs. I think milky and clear trichs make much better hash too, especially clear trichs, it can be heavily narcotic if you get them at the perfect ripeness.
But I find it hard to believe that any quality porous medium could be depleted of oxygen to dangerous levels, or even less than pleasant levels for roots. I think any type of aeration pot would help a lot, like smart pots as you said Wolverine, but to me, it just doesn't seem likely. But I guess I'll have to test it myself to get the answers.
But I agree, I think carbs in tea is a-okay, both my plants and several other growers that I share it with had huge improvements in their plants. But I would like to get a big hunk of earth and extract the humic acid out of it, throw that it in with some charcoal and earthworm castings, and see how that does all on it's own, before adding all my favorite ingredients.
But I find it hard to believe that any quality porous medium could be depleted of oxygen to dangerous levels, or even less than pleasant levels for roots. I think any type of aeration pot would help a lot, like smart pots as you said Wolverine, but to me, it just doesn't seem likely. But I guess I'll have to test it myself to get the answers.
But I agree, I think carbs in tea is a-okay, both my plants and several other growers that I share it with had huge improvements in their plants. But I would like to get a big hunk of earth and extract the humic acid out of it, throw that it in with some charcoal and earthworm castings, and see how that does all on it's own, before adding all my favorite ingredients.
mellokitty
Moderatrix of Journals
yeah, i'll have to pick his brain some more but i'm pretty sure he means "in your liquid feed". he's the brains behind "black pearl" (<--one of my favourite soil amendments) and one of the BFD's about black pearl is chitosan (a polysaccharide derived from acetylized crustacean shell) .... but then there's supposed to be some sort of carbon/oxygen providing sumfin-sumfin in biochar (the other BFD about black pearl) and the interaction of the 2 is supposed to both a) feed the microherd and b) provide a "backbone" supply of trace minerals. but again, it's an amendment and not part of their liquid nute regime.
edit: ok never mind, the "not in your liquid feed" is totally off; i just remembered there's a carb component that came with the organics that's for use in mid-cycle. i think he's travelling today but i will ask for some more clarification on that.
i agree with wolvie on the adding carbs to teas; i've been having to examine that as part of my wanting to use EM in my tea recipe... it needs a carb to live on. i guess a common method of EM composting is to impregnate a solid carb (like wheat or oat husks) and add a bunch of that to the compost pile. so i'm thinking "impregnate a bunch of black pearl with EM" and add it to my teabag. the idea being that those carbs feed your tea while it brews.
but then, we all know i'm a tea-n00b. i've made vermi-T before but there's almost zero thought involved in that.
edit: ok never mind, the "not in your liquid feed" is totally off; i just remembered there's a carb component that came with the organics that's for use in mid-cycle. i think he's travelling today but i will ask for some more clarification on that.
i agree with wolvie on the adding carbs to teas; i've been having to examine that as part of my wanting to use EM in my tea recipe... it needs a carb to live on. i guess a common method of EM composting is to impregnate a solid carb (like wheat or oat husks) and add a bunch of that to the compost pile. so i'm thinking "impregnate a bunch of black pearl with EM" and add it to my teabag. the idea being that those carbs feed your tea while it brews.
but then, we all know i'm a tea-n00b. i've made vermi-T before but there's almost zero thought involved in that.
mellokitty
Moderatrix of Journals
here an article by S in max yield about the cuban farmers:
http://www.maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=621&yearVar=2010&issueVar=October
http://www.maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=621&yearVar=2010&issueVar=October
Jozikins
Well-Known Member
Interesting article kitty, you always have at least one for us. I personally am pretty convinced that natural organics is the way to go, but I cannot justify a complete over haul until I have a fundamental understanding of it, I would just lose too much money. I would actually be better off financially returning to school at a junior college and taking classes. Might as well finish getting my AA, lol. But after attempting to make a full switch I learned a lot, and one of the lessons is organic gardening in pots is not only possible, but effective, but nothing can compare to what you can do with the earth that is around you, and the products you can make in your own yard, if not at least obtain locally. I've only seen a small example of this personally, but I think this is the way to go. I can't wait to start raised beds both indoors and out.
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
I'm with the group fully on carbs in tea being a good thing. I am only passing on info from someone with way too much horti brains. He was referring to adding carbs to the nute solution and then feeding. With a big enough herd in the container, I can see O2 being used up quite fast by an explosive reproduction. Even the best soils and containers barely provide enough O2. I know this from when I grew aeroponic in a CO2 enriched climate controlled greenhouse. I have never seen growth anywhere near as incredible as that. We know that a fine tuned aero system gets its power from a hyper-oxygenated root zone. In fact, I found that the more I dried the root zone, the more explosive the growth...to a point. Anyways, I would side with Big S on this one and do everything I could to maintain a healthy level of O2 in the soil. Of course, in the end, all that matters is results. If someone noticed an improvement by adding carbs, just who in the fuck am I to poo poo that.
Stand by for pics in 10.
And, news on my monkey problem.
Stand by for pics in 10.
And, news on my monkey problem.
Joedank
Well-Known Member
thats funny i just heard about reducing your simple carbs with soy or braggs liquid aminos in flower to promote fungal growth...
i little to back this up and bump collective to a fresh page i think
Amino Acid Content of Leaves in Mycorrhizal and Non-mycorrhizal Citrus Rootstocks
Nitrogen status was examined in leaves of sour orange and rough lemon citrus rootstocks grown in a low phosphorus sand inoculated with Glomus etunicatus, in sand amended with superphosphate at a rate of 2240 kg ha−1, and in a sand control left untreated. Sour orange was 3.1- and 3.5-fold taller and rough lemon was 1.8- and 2.0-fold taller than the controls in the inoculated and phosphorus treatments, respectively. In the controls, leaf N was up to 2.5-fold higher than in the other treatments. Both total and free amino acids accumulated in leaves of both rootstocks to higher levels in the control than in the other treatments. Most total amino acids in the control were lower than in the treatments, with the exceptions of arginine (up to 12-fold increase), proline (up to 1.8-fold increase), lysine, and free ammonia. Twenty-two free amino acids, urea, and ammonia were detected. Both rootstocks grown in control sand had significant increases in citrulline, ornithine, lysine, histidine, arginine and ammonia. Levels of total and most free amino acids in the inoculated and phosphorus treatments were similar to one another. It is suggested that mineral deficiency caused by the absence of G. etunicatus causes a reorganization of N-metabolism with a shift to a greater synthesis of ornithine cycle intermediates.
now i dont know the ramifacations of this for ganja but its cool to think that the plant reacts more than i ever though to the introduction of one new species of sub culture so more work is needed in testing innoculated well fed soil vs not in terpine and amino peptide uptake links...
i little to back this up and bump collective to a fresh page i think
Amino Acid Content of Leaves in Mycorrhizal and Non-mycorrhizal Citrus Rootstocks
Nitrogen status was examined in leaves of sour orange and rough lemon citrus rootstocks grown in a low phosphorus sand inoculated with Glomus etunicatus, in sand amended with superphosphate at a rate of 2240 kg ha−1, and in a sand control left untreated. Sour orange was 3.1- and 3.5-fold taller and rough lemon was 1.8- and 2.0-fold taller than the controls in the inoculated and phosphorus treatments, respectively. In the controls, leaf N was up to 2.5-fold higher than in the other treatments. Both total and free amino acids accumulated in leaves of both rootstocks to higher levels in the control than in the other treatments. Most total amino acids in the control were lower than in the treatments, with the exceptions of arginine (up to 12-fold increase), proline (up to 1.8-fold increase), lysine, and free ammonia. Twenty-two free amino acids, urea, and ammonia were detected. Both rootstocks grown in control sand had significant increases in citrulline, ornithine, lysine, histidine, arginine and ammonia. Levels of total and most free amino acids in the inoculated and phosphorus treatments were similar to one another. It is suggested that mineral deficiency caused by the absence of G. etunicatus causes a reorganization of N-metabolism with a shift to a greater synthesis of ornithine cycle intermediates.
now i dont know the ramifacations of this for ganja but its cool to think that the plant reacts more than i ever though to the introduction of one new species of sub culture so more work is needed in testing innoculated well fed soil vs not in terpine and amino peptide uptake links...
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
thats funny i just heard about reducing your simple carbs with soy or braggs liquid aminos in flower to promote fungal growth...
i little to back this up and bump collective to a fresh page i think
Amino Acid Content of Leaves in Mycorrhizal and Non-mycorrhizal Citrus Rootstocks
Nitrogen status was examined in leaves of sour orange and rough lemon citrus rootstocks grown in a low phosphorus sand inoculated with Glomus etunicatus, in sand amended with superphosphate at a rate of 2240 kg ha−1, and in a sand control left untreated. Sour orange was 3.1- and 3.5-fold taller and rough lemon was 1.8- and 2.0-fold taller than the controls in the inoculated and phosphorus treatments, respectively. In the controls, leaf N was up to 2.5-fold higher than in the other treatments. Both total and free amino acids accumulated in leaves of both rootstocks to higher levels in the control than in the other treatments. Most total amino acids in the control were lower than in the treatments, with the exceptions of arginine (up to 12-fold increase), proline (up to 1.8-fold increase), lysine, and free ammonia. Twenty-two free amino acids, urea, and ammonia were detected. Both rootstocks grown in control sand had significant increases in citrulline, ornithine, lysine, histidine, arginine and ammonia. Levels of total and most free amino acids in the inoculated and phosphorus treatments were similar to one another. It is suggested that mineral deficiency caused by the absence of G. etunicatus causes a reorganization of N-metabolism with a shift to a greater synthesis of ornithine cycle intermediates.
now i dont know the ramifacations of this for ganja but its cool to think that the plant reacts more than i ever though to the introduction of one new species of sub culture so more work is needed in testing innoculated well fed soil vs not in terpine and amino peptide uptake links...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, based on this, if I keep on doing what I'm doing my current crop will mutate into a group of zombies?
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
Well...looks like the RUI uploader aint working. I have today's pics of the fullest bloom room this op had ever had. It's thick...Amazon thick. So thick, that I got monkeys. Fuckers came in right through the ducting. Commercial J had them last year. He has a hook up on a guy that comes out with a blow gun and darts em. They go to sleep and are humanely re-located to area in B.C. with lots of big grow ops.
Joedank
Well-Known Member
Dood that's funny.....
That info I posted is only for soil with shitty nute retention and zero chelation coefficient ... Not for badasses who use soilless and full available nutes that cover the broad spectrum
Damn I want my bubba and og porn !!
Oh and I wish I could claim monkeys at my spotz. + ^^^^rep for needing the monkey handler