A Tale of The Tape HPA vs 21st Century Flood and Drain

PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
First, the good news- nothing wrong with the lights. They were all on a timer and the light schedule had shut off. I had accidently plugged the MaxLite straight into the power strip, so IT was still on.


Anybody else have the header of each page cut off?

Can you see my forearm behind this top bud shot (pic #1)? I can barely see a bit of hair in the upper left, and fingers tips on the far right

DIY 21st Century Flood & Drain

IMG_0999.jpg IMG_1003.jpg <Here you can see many of the side branches. This pic is actually 2 X 2 X 3

This is a typical sweet side branch+ a couple bud shots I took with a magnifying glass in between. Starting to get calyxes now.
IMG_1000.jpgIMG_1001.jpgIMG_1002.jpg

HPA fattening up, but still not much trich coverage
IMG_1004.jpg
 

Attachments

PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
This update came in a couple hours ago from UVL

660s now available @ $19.95

From what I am seeing with 1/8, I would like to try 2/8
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Found this sexing topic on another thread:

environmental factors play a lot into the fact of whether a plant is female or not you can begin influencing your plant's sex the moment the seedling has three pairs of true leaves (cotyledons don't count!)

This is from the Elite Growers Book: another thing a lot of you might be wondering why fem. seeds from seed companies don't follow the instructions from the picture that is because they all have hermaphrodite DNA they have lowered chances of hermie thru special breeding but especially all fem. seeds are hermie the better the environment the less chance of hermie

These factors are:

Humidity: High humidity increases the chances of female plant
development. Low humidity increases male plants. Low grow medium
moisture also increases males. The same is valid for the moistness of the
seedbed.

Temperature: lower temperatures make for a larger number of female
marijuana plants, higher temperatures for more male marijuana plants.

Lighting: More blue spectrum light energy increases the number of
females, whereas red light increases males. Fewer hours of
daylight(about 14) increases the number of female plants. Longer light
exposure(18 hours+) will tend to make more male plants.

Nitrogen: Increasing the level of nitrogen(N) makes more female
plants, lowering creates more males.

Potassium: Lowering levels of potassium(K) encourages the
development of female plants, increasing potassium(K) increases the
male tendencies. (So for the first two weeks a higher level of nitrogen
and a lower level of potassium will encourage female plants to develop.)

Environmental Stress. Any environmental stress will greatly increase
the chances of male plants growing from your seed.

Colour of Light: more blue light makes for female cannabis plants from
seed, more red light makes for more male cannabis plants.

Hours of Daylight: few hours of daylight(i.e. 14 hours) makes for
more female individuals, a long day(i.e. 18 hours) makes for more male
cannabis plants.

Soaking: Soaking your seed(s) in Gibberellic acid makes it/them more
likely to produce a female plant.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Great info pet...............Interesting about blue/red light spectrum and it's influence on sex............nice pics pet/ yeah I see your hairy forearm:)
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Thought I would repost this as my plants have been getting ample 630 from 1 UVL Aquasun + 2 ZooMed florosuns + 3 UVL Red Lifes. Additionally I have 1/8 UVL 660 + 1 Coral Wave:

This is from an led discussion, but the spectral needs are the same no matter the lighting choice

Couple that with strong white light (green-response chlorophyll extending throughout and deep into leaf structures, with a net effect at or near that of the (mostly) surface-level blue and reds), which also takes care of most of the ~660nm+ you actually need for photomorphogenesis - and you can get by with 630nm reds just fine.

(i.e. 630nm red is ~95% of the PSR of 660nm, AND they currently still have ~20-30% greater radiometric efficiency - as well as being cheaper than the deep reds - so there's more 'bang for the buck'):

Apparently true for T5s too. The 660 MSRP being ~ 1/3 more expensive than the Red Life
 
polyarcturus

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
did you just find that book? thats the book that changed the way i grow... super usfule infor and what you state about fem seeds is 1000% correct hermie genes are prevented by proper environments that encourage females. a lot of people think that a hermie is hermie and its not thier fualt but more often than not it is because your conditions where not optimal. i have yet to get a hermie following those guidelines(and more) all my plants flower as if they are pure fem.
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
polyarcturus said:
did you just find that book? thats the book that changed the way i grow... super usfule infor and what you state about fem seeds is 1000% correct hermie genes are prevented by proper environments that encourage females. a lot of people think that a hermie is hermie and its not thier fualt but more often than not it is because your conditions where not optimal. i have yet to get a hermie following those guidelines(and more) all my plants flower as if they are pure fem.
Click to expand...
I have never had problems with fems either....much prefer them and have found that potency is more uniform with them....have grave doubts as to all these environmental factors influencing sex as that is a genetic determination already locked in PRIOR to germination...This is proven by the fact that chemical feminization is so highly successful in producing only FEMALE offspring. Also chemically induced gender switch to produce pollen does NOT employ the use of the "hermie" trait, it merely blocks ethylene by replacing the copper anions with silver which blocks ethylene...no ethylene means the plant can NOT grow female parts so it grows male...there is no strengthening or unintended promotion of the "hermie" trait and will only pass on whatever trait in that respect it would have whether fem or not....And I break alot of those "rules" in searching for the potency such as low rh, high temps, letting them thirst with fast drying medium, etc...matter of fact the only fem I have had herm was a Nirvana crap genetics strain...along with LOTS of landrace sativa herms from regulars seeds....but man the high so really didnt care bout the seeds

Not knocking the book or anything, rather just sharing some real botanical facts

I found a place with the wave point Ultra Growths for sale but man $31 a pop...already the damned arcadias are $45 per and only last about 7-8 months unless I veg really long then 6 months

http://www.aquacon.com/WavepointT5Lightbulbs.html
and the shipping on 4 bulbs is $50!! will be a while before if ever I try them
 
polyarcturus

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
you are correct kite high ive come to the same conclusions genetically gender is locked in. but sexual expression is phenotypical as far as ive seen in the MJ plant i believe given the right conditions, any gender plant can express either gender exclusively. also kite high if you havent read the book you should look into it.

PLANT ULTRA GROWTHS ARE OUT!!!!!!!!!!!! i will getting some somewhere now.:bigjoint:
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Wow! $31 a pop before shipping.............I think ill stick to my florasuns and 2700/6400k combo for now:)
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
polyarcturus said:
did you just find that book? thats the book that changed the way i grow... super usfule infor and what you state about fem seeds is 1000% correct hermie genes are prevented by proper environments that encourage females. a lot of people think that a hermie is hermie and its not thier fualt but more often than not it is because your conditions where not optimal. i have yet to get a hermie following those guidelines(and more) all my plants flower as if they are pure fem.
Click to expand...
I found it in a thread
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
KiteHigh wrote:
"I found a place with the wave point Ultra Growths for sale but man $31 a pop...already the damned arcadias are $45 per and only last about 7-8 months unless I veg really long then 6 months

http://www.aquacon.com/WavepointT5Lightbulbs.html
and the shipping on 4 bulbs is $50!"

Great SDG. The price is reflective of the strong/broad 660+ nms, which may not be THAT important
 
Fonzarelli

Fonzarelli

Active Member
In regards to TAG "true aero growing," most aero growers start at a 5 sec on 30 min off interval. Best get yourself a cyclestat timer for aero. If you over-saturate your rootzone by spraying more than necessary the roots will take on a NFT appearance and you will get a lot less root/surface area along with tap roots finding their way into every drain hole. You also will not get any lateral root growth.(fine lateral root hairs reaching out sideways) The tricky balance comes in when you see wilting. It's best to keep the room RH a little higher to start with until finding that magic mist interval. If they do start wilting, increase your spray time from 5 sec to 7 sec, keeping the off interval at 30 min still. The whole idea with aeroponics is the micron size mist particles that are surrounded with so much oxygen. When the mist time is to long, the mist particles combine to form larger water droplets and you lose the whole aeroponics game. :( If you mist to frequently the same thing happens and the mist droplets combine to form larger ones before the roots even absorb the fine mist from the first spraying time. Aero IS in fact the fastest growing method if it is done correctly, if not, all you have is an expensive NFT system with long roots that sit on the floor of the tray like a wet carpet eventually taking on a brown appearance (not white like aero).
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Fonzarelli said:
In regards to TAG "true aero growing," most aero growers start at a 5 sec on 30 min off interval. Best get yourself a cyclestat timer for aero. If you over-saturate your rootzone by spraying more than necessary the roots will take on a NFT appearance and you will get a lot less root/surface area along with tap roots finding their way into every drain hole. You also will not get any lateral root growth.(fine lateral root hairs reaching out sideways) The tricky balance comes in when you see wilting. It's best to keep the room RH a little higher to start with until finding that magic mist interval. If they do start wilting, increase your spray time from 5 sec to 7 sec, keeping the off interval at 30 min still. The whole idea with aeroponics is the micron size mist particles that are surrounded with so much oxygen. When the mist time is to long, the mist particles combine to form larger water droplets and you lose the whole aeroponics game. :( If you mist to frequently the same thing happens and the mist droplets combine to form larger ones before the roots even absorb the fine mist from the first spraying time. Aero IS in fact the fastest growing method if it is done correctly, if not, all you have is an expensive NFT system with long roots that sit on the floor of the tray like a wet carpet eventually taking on a brown appearance (not white like aero).
Click to expand...
You're right Fonzarelli, however with the chamber size he is using, he'd need mist timings of one second or less to not oversaturate as you say...
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Fonzarelli said:
In regards to TAG "true aero growing," most aero growers start at a 5 sec on 30 min off interval. Best get yourself a cyclestat timer for aero. If you over-saturate your rootzone by spraying more than necessary the roots will take on a NFT appearance and you will get a lot less root/surface area along with tap roots finding their way into every drain hole. You also will not get any lateral root growth.(fine lateral root hairs reaching out sideways) The tricky balance comes in when you see wilting. It's best to keep the room RH a little higher to start with until finding that magic mist interval. If they do start wilting, increase your spray time from 5 sec to 7 sec, keeping the off interval at 30 min still. The whole idea with aeroponics is the micron size mist particles that are surrounded with so much oxygen. When the mist time is to long, the mist particles combine to form larger water droplets and you lose the whole aeroponics game. :( If you mist to frequently the same thing happens and the mist droplets combine to form larger ones before the roots even absorb the fine mist from the first spraying time. Aero IS in fact the fastest growing method if it is done correctly, if not, all you have is an expensive NFT system with long roots that sit on the floor of the tray like a wet carpet eventually taking on a brown appearance (not white like aero).
Click to expand...

Hey thanks for dropping in, but where did this comment come from? Did you look at my root pic? Nothing NFT about them! Tons of tiny fish bones often loaded with root hairs and egg shell white

AND if you are going to give T-HPA advice, I can tell you on wet/pause time has to do with several factors, starting with pod size then ambient room temps, and radiant heat on pod surface.

I am concerned that more than 2 seconds in my 30G pod will cause the atomized mist to combine into large droplets- and I am using a 100 psi with 4 @ 0.09 mist heads (is my decimal in the right place?).

Root hairs come and go as the room ambient temps rise and fall. 10-20 degree swings this time of year can quickly dry out the root hairs. I was running one second on 1:45 off, but lost the hairs when the room temp went up.

I am currently running 2 seconds on/2:35 off during lights on, and ~ 25% of the hairs are back. I just increased 'on' to 3 seconds and pause to 4:36 ring lights on. Will monitor and increase in small increments: 1: 60

Now PERHAPS if I was using only ONE mist head I might push to 4-5 seconds, but one mist head does not assure complete 360 coverage around each root mass (neither did 3 heads @ one second), so I would say minimum of 2 mist heads, but staggered and aimed in opposite directions.

I grew 3 plants from my own F1 cross. Unfortunately the 2 hpa plants are expressing rather smallish phenos. One is ~ 14" cola with 4 tiny side branch buds, the other is ~ 20" with 4 @ ~ 6" side branch colas (not even golf ball size). I will enjoy smoking them, but damn what a waste of a comparison test

I took 2 very late clones from the big girl in my 21st Century F & D just yesterday, as I had no room in the inn until I got the new tent a few days ago. If the clones both take I will run one last hpa v F & D. HPA uses about as much nutes over 7 days (but I have to stay on top of dumping them daily (D2W) and refilling the rez daily: by comparison hpa is a PITA.

I pH and ppm my F & D twice a week (takes ~ one gallon of pure water to readjust ppms) and dump the nutes every 7 days

Ya can't beat my DIY 21st Century F & D for simplicity. And the way I have it set up, it grows like crazy
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
polyarcturus said:
you are correct kite high ive come to the same conclusions genetically gender is locked in. but sexual expression is phenotypical as far as ive seen in the MJ plant i believe given the right conditions, any gender plant can express either gender exclusively. also kite high if you havent read the book you should look into it.

PLANT ULTRA GROWTHS ARE OUT!!!!!!!!!!!! i will getting some somewhere now.:bigjoint:
Click to expand...
thank you but I have evolved past reading mj grow books and have been studying botany as it applies to class c higher plants which cannabis is one... but the majority of reading i do is my plants...they ALWAYS tell the truth
 
polyarcturus

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
Kite High said:
thank you but I have evolved past reading mj grow books and have been studying botany as it applies to class c higher plants which cannabis is one... but the majority of reading i do is my plants...they ALWAYS tell the truth
Click to expand...
i can dig it kite high.
 
Fonzarelli

Fonzarelli

Active Member
PetFlora said:
Hey thanks for dropping in, but where did this comment come from? Did you look at my root pic? Nothing NFT about them! Tons of tiny fish bones often loaded with root hairs and egg shell white

AND if you are going to give T-HPA advice, I can tell you on wet/pause time has to do with several factors, starting with pod size then ambient room temps, and radiant heat on pod surface.

I am concerned that more than 2 seconds in my 30G pod will cause the atomized mist to combine into large droplets- and I am using a 100 psi with 4 @ 0.09 mist heads (is my decimal in the right place?).

Root hairs come and go as the room ambient temps rise and fall. 10-20 degree swings this time of year can quickly dry out the root hairs. I was running one second on 1:45 off, but lost the hairs when the room temp went up.

I am currently running 2 seconds on/2:35 off during lights on, and ~ 25% of the hairs are back. I just increased 'on' to 3 seconds and pause to 4:36 ring lights on. Will monitor and increase in small increments: 1: 60

Now PERHAPS if I was using only ONE mist head I might push to 4-5 seconds, but one mist head does not assure complete 360 coverage around each root mass (neither did 3 heads @ one second), so I would say minimum of 2 mist heads, but staggered and aimed in opposite directions.

I grew 3 plants from my own F1 cross. Unfortunately the 2 hpa plants are expressing rather smallish phenos. One is ~ 14" cola with 4 tiny side branch buds, the other is ~ 20" with 4 @ ~ 6" side branch colas (not even golf ball size). I will enjoy smoking them, but damn what a waste of a comparison test

I took 2 very late clones from the big girl in my 21st Century F & D just yesterday, as I had no room in the inn until I got the new tent a few days ago. If the clones both take I will run one last hpa v F & D. HPA uses about as much nutes over 7 days (but I have to stay on top of dumping them daily (D2W) and refilling the rez daily: by comparison hpa is a PITA.

I pH and ppm my F & D twice a week (takes ~ one gallon of pure water to readjust ppms) and dump the nutes every 7 days

Ya can't beat my DIY 21st Century F & D for simplicity. And the way I have it set up, it grows like crazy
Click to expand...
5 sec on 30 min off is a starting point, that's all. It's what all the aero lettuce growers use in the industry. I really don't know what mist nozzles you are using, so maybe they put out more flow than what I'm use to. The one's I use are more like a fogger than anything. They run at .01 gallons/min. I run 10 nozzles so it fits my pump perfectly. I was running 30 sec on 30 min off and was getting the long roots as you described on the first page. Then I set it back to 5 sec on 30 min off and all I get is fluffy lateral root growth. Sure it depends on the size of your chamber, number of plants, etc. It's just a starting point, like I said to begin with.

In regards to the NFT type roots, this is what happens to the roots after about 3 or 4 weeks of growth if continually over saturated with mist. I know because it happened to me my first couple of rounds. LOL
At harvest, I took out a huge 3 inch thick carpet of roots all drenched. Not one yellow leaf on the plants, but still not TAG.
 
Fonzarelli

Fonzarelli

Active Member
PetFlora said:
KiteHigh wrote:
"I found a place with the wave point Ultra Growths for sale but man $31 a pop...already the damned arcadias are $45 per and only last about 7-8 months unless I veg really long then 6 months

http://www.aquacon.com/WavepointT5Lightbulbs.html
and the shipping on 4 bulbs is $50!"

Great SDG. The price is reflective of the strong/broad 660+ nms, which may not be THAT important
Click to expand...
The Ultra Growth lamps are identical to the Zoo Med Flora lamps sold at Petco. This website overcharges for Wavepoint lamps, other places have them for around $17 a piece. Wouldn't waste money on them, but it's your dough.

660nm not important? Where did this come from? Far red wavelengths are what drive the photosynthesis process. That's why the hortilux blues are such a nice lamp.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top