Holy OverFed Cannabis Batman! (Or: Watering is not the #1 Newbie Problem)

Howdy Newbies,

You Rock! Seriously, I can teach a new grower how to grow superior quality cannabis, much easier than a grower who has even a single year of experience. You have an empty cup.

Learn to Read Your Plants
Organic, Hydro, Soil, Soilless, Cannabis is the same. One of the main indicators of quality being destroyed in cannabis happens to be the presence of a dark green color in your leaves. When you first begin experimenting with feeding cannabis, you'll notice growth rate changes at different feed levels. See, cannabis does not selectively uptake nutrients and will overfeed when conditions are right for it.

When you feed too lightly (assuming a balanced nutrient, proper pH swing and high transpiration environment. Look them up.) the leaves are a pale green and lower leaves brown, wither and die. Growth is slow and unhealthy.

When you feed the correct level of nutrients, the leaves are a medium green and growth rates are at maximum.

When excessive nutrient levels are available, the leaves are dark green and growth rates begin to slow. The more overfeeding, the darker the plant and the slower the growth rate becomes. Having to deal with excessive nutrient also makes for lower production of terpenes and cannabinoids, the compounds we really want.

I've spent 8 years researching superior quality cannabis and have yet to see more than 'decent' quality come from plants with dark green leaves. There's a fine line between clean cannabis and overfed cannabis, so watch those growth rates as you increase the nutrient levels.

Be Kind to Your Cannabis!
Keep your transpiration high, your nutrient levels low, your water and your air clean. You'll be so happy you did.

Douglas

^^^well said noob.

hellmutt bones said:

^^^well said

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Thanks.

Hoping to get some growers started off correctly. The DEA has made a mess of cannabis information over the last few decades. Lots of cleanup left to go.

Douglas

I agree completely! I am a victim of the "newbie greed" a tiny bit myself this grow.

Tried out FFOF soil for the first time (little hot from past soils) and tried to go with 1/5th strength nutes when deep down I knew they were fine for another week or two. I gave them the tiniest bit of nute burn and leaves are definitely a shade or two too dark, probably lost a day in speed. They were extremely healthy beforehand so they quickly recovered though.

Nothing major at all and now I know to wait a little longer for next time.

Other two things I immediately notice with new growers is heat stress and over watering which itself makes excessive nutrients worse. Both I also fixed this grow and made a HUGE difference. Worry about your lights last.

Grandaddy7 said:

I agree completely! I am a victim of the "newbie greed" a tiny bit myself this grow.

Tried out FFOF soil for the first time (little hot from past soils) and tried to go with 1/5th strength nutes when deep down I knew they were fine for another week or two. I gave them the tiniest bit of nute burn and leaves are definitely a shade or two too dark, probably lost a day in speed. They were extremely healthy beforehand so they quickly recovered though.

Nothing major at all and now I know to wait a little longer for next time.

Other two things I immediately notice with new growers is heat stress and over watering. Both I also fixed this grow and made a HUGE difference. Worry about your lights last.

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Good catch

You're correct, heat stress and overwatering are definitely contenders for 2nd and 3rd place Just recently went over a bunch of old information and take sooo many things for granted now. Trying to place myself in my old newbie shoes, so I can remember what was critical back then.

Douglas

Douglas.Curtis said:

Keep your transpiration high, your nutrient levels low, your water and your air clean. You'll be so happy you did.

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What type of water do you use? I don't have access to RO or distilled water unless I want to buy it each time.

I Brita my hard water, let it sit out between feedings and then PH down to 6.2-6.8.

Grandaddy7 said:

What type of water do you use? I don't have access to RO or distilled water unless I want to buy it each time.

I Brita my hard water, let it sit out between feedings and then PH down to 6.2-6.8.

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I've used r/o water for over 15 years now. Drinking, cooking and drinking water for my family and the animals. I used to buy my r/o, even paid almost .60/gallonUSD for it for over a year once. Do what you're doing for now, save up for an R/O machine as soon as possible.

Starting with clean water allows you to only give the plant what it needs, nothing extra for cannabis to degrade quality with.

Ya that's what I'm thinking. For my own health let alone my plants.

Very good information Douglas, I appreciate this

714steadyeddie said:

Very good information Douglas, I appreciate this

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My pleasure.

Glad you gained from it.

I'll add another tip - nutrients dissolved in water and fed to plants that are at 72 degrees F leads to a certain concentration in soil. If your tent/grow room/outdoors gets to be 95 degrees F, the water consumption may go way up, and if you are still using the same concentration of nutrients in the water, you'll over-nute them. This may seem obvious to some, but it wasn't for me. In bloom, I was using nutrients every-other-watering, and when I was watering once or twice a week, no problem. When I was watering every other day, that led to a major over-application of nutrients. I have at least 2 plants now that are quite large but have terrible yield thus far and are still dark green. I don't know that those plants will recover; I've flushed them repeatedly, but the point is - watch your nutes, esp. as your watering frequency changes.

Douglas.Curtis said:

My pleasure.

Glad you gained from it.

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I rock Maxibloom from veg to flower, at the end of flower my leaves had a super dark green hue. If I keep just using Maxibloom how can I keep my plants at the healthiest they can with out the super dark green leaves ?

I'm in 100% coco

trident1996 said:

I'll add another tip - nutrients dissolved in water and fed to plants that are at 72 degrees F leads to a certain concentration in soil. If your tent/grow room/outdoors gets to be 95 degrees F, the water consumption may go way up, and if you are still using the same concentration of nutrients in the water, you'll over-nute them. This may seem obvious to some, but it wasn't for me. In bloom, I was using nutrients every-other-watering, and when I was watering once or twice a week, no problem. When I was watering every other day, that led to a major over-application of nutrients. I have at least 2 plants now that are quite large but have terrible yield thus far and are still dark green. I don't know that those plants will recover; I've flushed them repeatedly, but the point is - watch your nutes, esp. as your watering frequency changes.

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You're describing varying levels of transpiration and yes, nutrient strength is very important when transpiration rates change.

Environmental control is very important for clean cannabis. Temps and humidity need to stay constant, so you can feed right at the edge of 'complete nutrition' without stepping over that line of overfeeding. It's a balance

Overfed plants have lower quality, no way to flush or fade it out. The only thing lowing nute strength before harvest does is pull nutrients out of the plant that haven't been used yet. It does nothing for nutes that were packed into new growth during the overfeeding. lol I've watered overfed plants with plain water for a month before harvest, didn't make a difference.
Hopefully you still get something decent out of it, there's always next time.

Douglas

714steadyeddie said:

I rock Maxibloom from veg to flower, at the end of flower my leaves had a super dark green hue. If I keep just using Maxibloom how can I keep my plants at the healthiest they can with out the super dark green leaves ?

I'm in 100% coco

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I used Maxibloom exclusively for a few years as well. You want to surf that medium green color during the grow. When your plants look a bit too dark, run some clean water through and ease up on the nutrient strength in the root zone. Use a weaker nute solution the next feeding.

The key is in watching the growth rates. Again, you'll see growth speed up as you hit the 'enough nutes' range. As you get into too much nutrient, you'll see the leaves get darker. When they get darker still, you'll begin to see the growth rates slow down. Each strain feeds differently, make sure you're feeding them their own level of nutrient.

Cannabis is an accumulator and the dark green is about the only sign we have that it's degrading quality. When fed only a 'little' too much it will grow perfectly well and at nearly the exact same rates as a 'properly fed' plant, just darker green. The quality differences in the end flowers are huge. So increase feed until maximum growth rates with medium green leaves.

As for veg? Try 1 scoop of maxigrow for each 6 scoops of maxibloom. No runaway 'over nitrogen' growth, but quicker veg than straight maxibloom.

Douglas

Douglas.Curtis said:

I used Maxibloom exclusively for a few years as well. You want to surf that medium green color during the grow. When your plants look a bit too dark, run some clean water through and ease up on the nutrient strength in the root zone. Use a weaker nute solution the next feeding.

The key is in watching the growth rates. Again, you'll see growth speed up as you hit the 'enough nutes' range. As you get into too much nutrient, you'll see the leaves get darker. When they get darker still, you'll begin to see the growth rates slow down. Each strain feeds differently, make sure you're feeding them their own level of nutrient.

Cannabis is an accumulator and the dark green is about the only sign we have that it's degrading quality. When fed only a 'little' too much it will grow perfectly well and at nearly the exact same rates as a 'properly fed' plant, just darker green. The quality differences in the end flowers are huge. So increase feed until maximum growth rates with medium green leaves.

As for veg? Try 1 scoop of maxigrow for each 6 scoops of maxibloom. No runaway 'over nitrogen' growth, but quicker veg than straight maxibloom.

Douglas

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Thanks i appreciate the time. I was seeing this happen but I couldn't really put it together during my last run.

Cheers

Different strains have different color profiles when grown optimally. Don't be afraid of the dark green if the leaf structure is flat.

Bugeye said:

Different strains have different color profiles when grown optimally. Don't be afraid of the dark green if the leaf structure is flat.

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I've grown a LOT of different strains, over 15+ years. Not one has turned out 'quality' when their leaves were dark green.

Watch the growth rates, that's where it's at. Watch for when maximum growth rates level out, as you increase nutrient strength. Should you happen to come across a strain with dark green leaves, that still shows increased growth rates as you feed it more, I would like to know the lineage please.

Thank You

Douglas.Curtis said:

I've grown a LOT of different strains, over 15+ years. Not one has turned out 'quality' when their leaves were dark green.

Watch the growth rates, that's where it's at. Watch for when maximum growth rates level out, as you increase nutrient strength. Should you happen to come across a strain with dark green leaves, that still shows increased growth rates as you feed it more, I would like to know the lineage please.

Thank You

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My plants feed themselves more as they need it, organic. Some will go very dark and still do not present downward clawed leaf tips (the classic sign of overfeeding). Huge difference in leaf color across strains and it does not correlate at all to quality in my experiences. YMMV. So much of quality has to do with drying and curing slowly and properly.

Take a look at pics of the forum cut of Girl Scout Cookies, very very dark leaves. Here's a Kosher Kush from a couple years back that was dark green and wonderful, in this pic she has already faded a bit with chop a week away:
15+ years experience? yawn.

Bugeye said:

My plants feed themselves more as they need it, organic.

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Ouch, So wrong.

You'll see the difference yourself, when you run the same strain that came out dark, with a lighter amended soil the next time. Hell, run them side by side and truly see for yourself.

Cannabis can and will absorb way more nutrients than it requires for superior quality. This is one of the main reasons I posted this thread, to point out this very issue. Organic isn't magic and cannabis is NOT a vegetable, it responds completely different to overfeeding, You see dark leaves, you're destroying quality. Period.

When you try the same strain in several differently amended soils, you'll see what I'm talking about. Until then, you really have no frame of reference about this subject.

Douglas

Douglas.Curtis said:

Ouch, So wrong.

You'll see the difference yourself, when you run the same strain that came out dark, with a lighter amended soil the next time. Hell, run them side by side and truly see for yourself.

Cannabis can and will absorb way more nutrients than it requires for superior quality. This is one of the main reasons I posted this thread, to point out this very issue. Organic isn't magic and cannabis is NOT a vegetable, it responds completely different to overfeeding, You see dark leaves, you're destroying quality. Period.

When you try the same strain in several differently amended soils, you'll see what I'm talking about. Until then, you really have no frame of reference about this subject.

Douglas

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How wrong you are. Please site some sources because if we go off experience, I win. Not that I think years of grow experience or number of strains grown means a lot. I've done everything from water only early flower fades to complete overfeeds. Grown hydro, synthetic feed dirt, organic, indoor, outdoor, greenhouse. Like you I'd rather error toward underfeeding than overfeeding, but it has little to do with the leaf color when optimally grown. With organics, if my soil and bio life are where they need to be, the plant is literally going to the buffet and picking what it wants, when it wants it. It isn't magic, it is botany.