War


‘Huge impact’: Ex-CIA director on success of US rocket systems in Ukraine
110,756 views Jul 20, 2022 Retired General David Petraeus speaks with CNN’s Jim Sciutto about the state of the war in Ukraine and a Ukrainian government report that US-supplied High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS) have “significantly slowed” Russia’s advance in the country.
 

M982 Excalibur 50-Miles Away Precision Artillery Shell
81,665 views Jul 18, 2022 Going back to its debut in medieval times, artillery weaponry has drastically altered the notion of what it is possible to do on a battlefield. From turning mighty walls to dust to reaching remote enemy locations all the way to defeating far larger forces, artillery fire has been a crucial part of warfare tactics.

Still, artillery has always suffered from an inherent inaccuracy issue throughout military history. And although the range and precision of these weapons have increased with the advances in technology, unleashing artillery fire in close proximity to friendly units or civilian infrastructure has always carried a significant risk of collateral damage.

However, this persistent problem might soon be a thing of the past, as the groundbreaking M982 Excalibur shell is spearheading a breakthrough in warfare technology that promises to take artillery precision to an astounding 2-meter margin of error.

The novel guided projectile is expected to combine the advantages of an artillery barrage with the precision and control of a guided missile system to allow the US military to confidently use artillery in urban scenarios without the fear of friendly fire.

If successful, the M982 Excalibur might start a new revolution in artillery technology that could be as significant as the development of the first gunpowder cannon in the 14th century.
 
BudmanTX said:
and if you don't like that, check the the russian tv propaganda bullshit........


Click to expand...
This and the secret experiment propaganda is obviously to entirely dehumanize the Ukranians. Genocide 101. If they are nazi monster bugs created by secret experiments and are in a “non-existent“ country, Putin could drop some nukes on them and then still pretend the Russians are the good guys. Which at this point it’s pretty much inevitable. Most people with either a brain or a heart want Ukraine to win, to beat the invader. Every news outlet and website with their endless desire for more clicks knows that too. There’s actually nothing in the Russian source article at dailybeast that says “Russia says it’s losing because…”, just fiction to get more people to click on it. When you can make up anything, you don’t need to make up an excuse for losing, you can simply claim you’re winning and the operation is going as planned. Putin isn’t going down or even risk it without using nukes and when he does that without wiping out too many civilians he’ll get away with it too.

DIY-HP-LED said:
The Ukrainians might have had 25,000 dead troops, but I figure the Russians have suffered two to three times their number and maybe more, because of poor medical treatment and infrastructure.
Click to expand...
www.reuters.com

CIA director estimates 15,000 Russians killed in Ukraine war

The United States estimates that Russian casualties in Ukraine so far have reached around 15,000 killed and perhaps 45,000 wounded, CIA Director William Burns said on Wednesday, adding that Ukraine has also endured significant casualties.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
Sativied said:
… Putin isn’t going down or even risk it without using nukes and when he does that without wiping out too many civilians he’ll get away with it too.


www.reuters.com

CIA director estimates 15,000 Russians killed in Ukraine war

The United States estimates that Russian casualties in Ukraine so far have reached around 15,000 killed and perhaps 45,000 wounded, CIA Director William Burns said on Wednesday, adding that Ukraine has also endured significant casualties.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
Click to expand...
oh I hope not.

Mind you, if he does use nukes, that’s our green light to do to his military what he boasted he would do to Ukraine’s. We don’t need to respond with nukes, except possibly to bring his submarine count from n to 0 all at once. (not likely, since that requires long-range tactical coordination, not a skill a sub driver usually studies)

But if we went full conventional weapons free, the first B-2s maybe won’t have landed before fire is ceased with Russia folding. It could be a war measured in hours. I dont know. Last time this nation really flexed it was 31 years ago. Weapons have only gotten better.

We will have to be damned careful not to reset the mousetrap of history that we set a hundred years ago at Compiègne. I could see a broken Russia becoming resentful and electing fascists promising restored national glory.
 
Last edited:
Sativied said:
This and the secret experiment propaganda is obviously to entirely dehumanize the Ukranians. Genocide 101. If they are nazi monster bugs created by secret experiments and are in a “non-existent“ country, Putin could drop some nukes on them and then still pretend the Russians are the good guys. Which at this point it’s pretty much inevitable. Most people with either a brain or a heart want Ukraine to win, to beat the invader. Every news outlet and website with their endless desire for more clicks knows that too. There’s actually nothing in the Russian source article at dailybeast that says “Russia says it’s losing because…”, just fiction to get more people to click on it. When you can make up anything, you don’t need to make up an excuse for losing, you can simply claim you’re winning and the operation is going as planned. Putin isn’t going down or even risk it without using nukes and when he does that without wiping out too many civilians he’ll get away with it too.


www.reuters.com

CIA director estimates 15,000 Russians killed in Ukraine war

The United States estimates that Russian casualties in Ukraine so far have reached around 15,000 killed and perhaps 45,000 wounded, CIA Director William Burns said on Wednesday, adding that Ukraine has also endured significant casualties.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
Click to expand...
The main idea is that Ukraine has lost relatively few of it's troops and civilians, compared to past wars and initial estimates. Ukraine has a million men under arms and have trained several times their loses killed already, the UK alone is training 10K troops every 120 days, aside from Ukrainian efforts and other allied efforts. In contrast the Russian replacements are reserves with 30 days training, enough to be cannon fodder and not much else, while their officer corps has been decimated from top to bottom. The Ukrainians are still transitioning to NATO heavy arms and HIMARS have cut the Russian rate of artillery fire dramatically by destroying their ammo dumps far to the rear.
 
cannabineer said:
We will have to be damned careful not to reset the mousetrap of history that we set a hundred years ago at Compiègne. I could see a broken Russia becoming resentful and electing fascists promising restored national glory.
Click to expand...
is that where the ww1 armistice was signed?
a broken russia becoming resentful could be avoided easily...break all 22 republics up into rump states...a lot of them are already fed up and want to leave the "union" anyway, the Buryatia, Dagestan, and the Oriat-Kalmyk in particular are not happy about being used as cannon fodder in a war they don't want to be a part of, but they're kept so poor that the pay for enlistment is very hard to resist, even though they must know they'll be thrown into the heaviest fighting and probably never see their first pay.
of course, it would probably a lot easier to deal with a nuclear disarmed russia than with 22 potential putins who may all have a nuke or two hidden away for a rainy day.
 
Roger A. Shrubber said:
is that where the ww1 armistice was signed?
a broken russia becoming resentful could be avoided easily...break all 22 republics up into rump states...a lot of them are already fed up and want to leave the "union" anyway, the Buryatia, Dagestan, and the Oriat-Kalmyk in particular are not happy about being used as cannon fodder in a war they don't want to be a part of, but they're kept so poor that the pay for enlistment is very hard to resist, even though they must know they'll be thrown into the heaviest fighting and probably never see their first pay.
of course, it would probably a lot easier to deal with a nuclear disarmed russia than with 22 potential putins who may all have a nuke or two hidden away for a rainy day.
Click to expand...
With about 20% of the world's economy America doesn't stick out quite as much as it used to and is thus is less of a target as you blend more in with the herd. It also means a more cooperative attitude towards and dependency on your natural allies, the liberal democracies. It will mean playing ball on climate change too, because it won't be long before there will be punitive actions against those who don't.

Russia is best defeated by Ukraine in a war that won't end until Europe is weaned off of Russian energy, coal, oil and gas. Ukraine can and should take their European markets and with that wealth rebuild their country and a very strong military. If Belarus goes too, it makes an iron curtain impossible and it will bring cultural and political change to Russia, they will be busy with their own internal culture war and republics trying to break away as the go liberal democratic. They will increase trade with China, but that is a long way from their gas and oil supplies and transportation links are weak. Much of what China produces is under license and if it shows up in Russia someone will want to know why.
 
Roger A. Shrubber said:
is that where the ww1 armistice was signed?
a broken russia becoming resentful could be avoided easily...break all 22 republics up into rump states...a lot of them are already fed up and want to leave the "union" anyway, the Buryatia, Dagestan, and the Oriat-Kalmyk in particular are not happy about being used as cannon fodder in a war they don't want to be a part of, but they're kept so poor that the pay for enlistment is very hard to resist, even though they must know they'll be thrown into the heaviest fighting and probably never see their first pay.
of course, it would probably a lot easier to deal with a nuclear disarmed russia than with 22 potential putins who may all have a nuke or two hidden away for a rainy day.
Click to expand...
Yup on WWI.
My worry about the presented scenario is how China might view this sudden yawning geopolitical vacuum. If I were head tureen in the china cabinet, I might be, let’s call it inspired. The People’s Liberation Army might start to do an awful lot of liberatin’.
 
cannabineer said:
Yup on WWI.
My worry about the presented scenario is how China might view this sudden yawning geopolitical vacuum. If I were head tureen in the china cabinet, I might be, let’s call it inspired. The People’s Liberation Army might start to do an awful lot of liberatin’.
Click to expand...
let them have the states that butt up against them, who gives a shit? hell, arrange it with them before hand, ensure that we don't spook them, and reassure them that the entire operation will be in their benefit...
 
Roger A. Shrubber said:
let them have the states that butt up against them, who gives a shit? hell, arrange it with them before hand, ensure that we don't spook them, and reassure them that the entire operation will be in their benefit...
Click to expand...
They look at that Siberian hinterland to their north and drool! Vlad showed the way, keep him weak with sanctions and war with the west, while fomenting separatists and domestic terrorists. Then when they setup a new government, recognize and support it economically and militarily. The west will use the same formula in Belarus, using Ukraine if it can, there is already big trouble in Belarus with the last couple of elections outright stolen. China does not need to claim the territory, it can use it's soft power to control it and it's resources, it would be an independent country. If some critical rail and road bridges were blown up Russia would be cut off from Siberia for a long time and their air transport system is rapidly degrading too. Interestingly, they might be cut off from a lot of Chinese imports too...
 
DIY-HP-LED said:
The main idea is that Ukraine has lost relatively few of it's troops and civilians, compared to past wars and initial estimates. Ukraine has a million men under arms and have trained several times their loses killed already, the UK alone is training 10K troops every 120 days, aside from Ukrainian efforts and other allied efforts. In contrast the Russian replacements are reserves with 30 days training, enough to be cannon fodder and not much else, while their officer corps has been decimated from top to bottom. The Ukrainians are still transitioning to NATO heavy arms and HIMARS have cut the Russian rate of artillery fire dramatically by destroying their ammo dumps far to the rear.
Click to expand...
Relatively few? Got a link to that? The UK is training 10k? Seems you are jumping the gun.

"The first Ukrainian soldiers taking part in a major new UK-led military programme, which will train up to 10,000 Ukrainians over the coming months, have arrived in the UK."

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

First of 10,000 Ukrainian troops arrive in UK for training

Britain has rapidly procured AK variant assault rifles for the huge training programme, meaning Ukrainian soldiers can train on the weapons they will be using on the front line over the coming weeks.
ukdefencejournal.org.uk ukdefencejournal.org.uk

Thousands of Ukrainian 'battle casualty replacements' are being trained in England
British commanders aim to have 2,400 recruits rotating through the course at any one time as they mobilise to meet a target of training up to 10,000 Ukrainian personnel every 120 days.

With Ukraine losing up to 200 soldiers every 24 hours in its war with Russia, the ability to generate manpower is vital. These are "battle casualty replacements", a senior officer said.
news.sky.com

Thousands of Ukrainian 'battle casualty replacements' are being trained in England

Ukraine is losing up to 200 soldiers each day and it is important replacements can be trained in safety, away from the war.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
 
printer said:
Relatively few? Got a link to that? The UK is training 10k? Seems you are jumping the gun.

"The first Ukrainian soldiers taking part in a major new UK-led military programme, which will train up to 10,000 Ukrainians over the coming months, have arrived in the UK."

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

First of 10,000 Ukrainian troops arrive in UK for training

Britain has rapidly procured AK variant assault rifles for the huge training programme, meaning Ukrainian soldiers can train on the weapons they will be using on the front line over the coming weeks.
ukdefencejournal.org.uk ukdefencejournal.org.uk

Thousands of Ukrainian 'battle casualty replacements' are being trained in England
British commanders aim to have 2,400 recruits rotating through the course at any one time as they mobilise to meet a target of training up to 10,000 Ukrainian personnel every 120 days.

With Ukraine losing up to 200 soldiers every 24 hours in its war with Russia, the ability to generate manpower is vital. These are "battle casualty replacements", a senior officer said.
news.sky.com

Thousands of Ukrainian 'battle casualty replacements' are being trained in England

Ukraine is losing up to 200 soldiers each day and it is important replacements can be trained in safety, away from the war.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
Click to expand...
The announced plan was to train 10,000 troops in the UK and it is on going as is the war. Ukraine was losing a lot of people in the east per day during recent Russian offensives, but since the arrival of HIMARS the rate of Russian fire has fallen off dramatically. However Ukraine has also begun offensive operations and that drives casualties up too, they have not been losing 200 men a day since the war began, that is a peak number. Let's say since the war began the lost an average of 100 troops killed a day that should total around 15,000 troops, the US estimate. With 3X wounded that would be 60,000 total losses since the war began and we are in the 6th month now.

Ukraine has close to a million men under arms and as many volunteers as it can equip and train with allied help. Historically speaking, a country like Ukraine can absorb a lot more casualties that that, especially with allied medical help. This war will go on for awhile IMHO and there are more Ukrainian troops being trained than in the UK, they are even being trained in America and Germany. In the past, wars went on for years and this number would have been a small fraction of the casualties. Russia will run out of men before Ukraine does, unless Vlad declares war and if Ukraine invades Crimea they will.
 
DIY-HP-LED said:
The announced plan was to train 10,000 troops in the UK and it is on going as is the war. Ukraine was losing a lot of people in the east per day during recent Russian offensives, but since the arrival of HIMARS the rate of Russian fire has fallen off dramatically. However Ukraine has also begun offensive operations and that drives casualties up too, they have not been losing 200 men a day since the war began, that is a peak number. Let's say since the war began the lost an average of 100 troops killed a day that should total around 15,000 troops, the US estimate. With 3X wounded that would be 60,000 total losses since the war began and we are in the 6th month now.

Ukraine has close to a million men under arms and as many volunteers as it can equip and train with allied help. Historically speaking, a country like Ukraine can absorb a lot more casualties that that, especially with allied medical help. This war will go on for awhile IMHO and there are more Ukrainian troops being trained than in the UK, they are even being trained in America and Germany. In the past, wars went on for years and this number would have been a small fraction of the casualties. Russia will run out of men before Ukraine does, unless Vlad declares war and if Ukraine invades Crimea they will.
Click to expand...
100 a day, the UK plan on cycling 10k in 120 days. 120 days x 100 dead a day is 12,000. So in 120 days the Ukrainians are 2,000 short. Obviously not every replacement will come from the UK. My point was you said they are processing 10,000 replacements. My searching showed you were saying four times the number were being trained than actually were. Not the first time you have missed the mark, I prefer to have accurate numbers and not wonder why the Russians make gains when Ukraine has a 1,00,000 member army. Russia will call the war a war as soon as the tide turns on them. They already passed laws saying they can mobilize the economy to support the war. If you think Russia is willing to be defeated you are dreaming.
 
printer said:
100 a day, the UK plan on cycling 10k in 120 days. 120 days x 100 dead a day is 12,000. So in 120 days the Ukrainians are 2,000 short. Obviously not every replacement will come from the UK. My point was you said they are processing 10,000 replacements. My searching showed you were saying four times the number were being trained than actually were. Not the first time you have missed the mark, I prefer to have accurate numbers and not wonder why the Russians make gains when Ukraine has a 1,00,000 member army. Russia will call the war a war as soon as the tide turns on them. They already passed laws saying they can mobilize the economy to support the war. If you think Russia is willing to be defeated you are dreaming.
Click to expand...
They might not like being defeated, but the idea is to give them little choice. Causality numbers vary widely, but recently I'm sticking with the American estimates. The UK is giving those troops 120 days of accelerated training and can only absorb so many at a time, but I imagine that will grow over time. America and Germany are training specialized troops for various weapons systems and other countries are training them too, NATO is very good a multilingual training, but are not directly involved, other than coordinating things. Ukraine has also been training people since the war began and did have a lot of trained people when the war began.

From reports the Russian replacements are getting 30 days of training, enough to be cannon fodder on the modern battlefield. The HIMARS appear to be very effective, at least until the Russians adapt to the new reality, of reducing the Russian rate of fire and their fuel logistics are being targeted too. As I said, some people want a longer war to wean Europe off Russian energy dependency this winter and to break the Russian economy. The longer it goes on, the more of their purchased European infrastructure goes down for lack of spare parts. Vlad stuck his neck out and some people want his head chopped off, but he is being strangled slowly with a garrote.
 
printer said:
100 a day, the UK plan on cycling 10k in 120 days. 120 days x 100 dead a day is 12,000. So in 120 days the Ukrainians are 2,000 short. Obviously not every replacement will come from the UK. My point was you said they are processing 10,000 replacements. My searching showed you were saying four times the number were being trained than actually were. Not the first time you have missed the mark, I prefer to have accurate numbers and not wonder why the Russians make gains when Ukraine has a 1,00,000 member army. Russia will call the war a war as soon as the tide turns on them. They already passed laws saying they can mobilize the economy to support the war. If you think Russia is willing to be defeated you are dreaming.
Click to expand...
yeah, i was pretty optimistic at first, and i really do expect Ukraine to win...eventually.
they have proven pretty well that they can use the hardware given to them effectively, so hopefully they will be getting more systems and ammo asap. the UK is training them, US soldiers have been training Ukrainian troops in Germany since April, mostly on job specific new systems, training radar operators to operate new systems, training artillery teams to operate new systems...NATO has been giving them combat training since May...and all of those trained people can now train other people.
it will be long, and bloody, because russia has a mountain of garbage artillery to throw, but Ukraine is having great effect destroying ammo depots and commands centers, effectively using the equipment they been given to shoot and scoot, coordinating with spotters and drone operators.
russia is hurting for good equipment, and fresh young recruits, but old men firing old artillery can still destroy cities...
 
Roger A. Shrubber said:
yeah, i was pretty optimistic at first, and i really do expect Ukraine to win...eventually.
they have proven pretty well that they can use the hardware given to them effectively, so hopefully they will be getting more systems and ammo asap. the UK is training them, US soldiers have been training Ukrainian troops in Germany since April, mostly on job specific new systems, training radar operators to operate new systems, training artillery teams to operate new systems...NATO has been giving them combat training since May...and all of those trained people can now train other people.
it will be long, and bloody, because russia has a mountain of garbage artillery to throw, but Ukraine is having great effect destroying ammo depots and commands centers, effectively using the equipment they been given to shoot and scoot, coordinating with spotters and drone operators.
russia is hurting for good equipment, and fresh young recruits, but old men firing old artillery can still destroy cities...
Click to expand...
the fact that they are still on the map after almost five months means that (sets metaphor blender on eleven) the big bad bear is a paper tiger.

It is another object lesson in war in the nuclear era. Were it not for those pesky nukes, China and Nato would currently be leaning over the chart, deciding who gets what.
 
cannabineer said:
Were it not for those pesky nukes, China and Nato would currently be leaning over the chart, deciding who gets what.
Click to expand...
They will get creative about that and use Vlad's own method to break off chunks of independent countries with independence movements and clandestine support for extremists. Transportation links into north central Asia and the east coast from Europe are few and weak.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top