Why do American soldiers think...

420God · Mar 15, 2011

doc111 said:
That's what I'm talkin' about! Not everybody can go off and join the Peace Corps, and the military isn't for everyone. If we help those around us and they help those around them, then the world would be a wonderful, perfect place. Unfortunately "Pay it Forward" is just a movie and there's always gonna be some self-centered dolt who breaks the cycle. I think it's great what you do 420God. If people help out in their own way and use their strengths and talents in positive ways, the world would quickly become a pretty decent place to live.

I respect you doc, you're a good man. The world could use more like you. :clap:

DirtPoor · Mar 15, 2011

doc111 said:
There's no need to thank me..............but it's always nice to hear, and you're welcome.

Most of my family and friends are career military, and it just pisses me right off when people disrespect our troops or act like they owe something. Duties aren't required, it's an option which makes it even more admirable in my humble opinion. My life goal, everything I ever wanted to do, was enlist in the military then go to college and become an officer...unfourtunatly my decision making skills when I was a child were a little (for lack of a better word) stupid.

DirtPoor · Mar 15, 2011

tip top toker said:
No, what you did was alter the wording then accuse me of making things up and making accusations. Just keep spinning it in your favour but don't try and put the blame on me after shooting yourself in the foot

I've quote your post 3 times now and you then stated that I then quite clearly proved you wrong with how you have rights but it's not legal, and yet you persist to try and pin this on me

Dude please for the sake of the thread, the forum, and all general mankind...just stop writing. You make no sense when you try to sound smart...you get one point for proving me wrong with the rights in other countries, that puts you at 1 point. What exactly are you trying to convey? Just state your point, so I can either agree or disagree and get out of here.

DrFever · Mar 15, 2011

kinda like world war 2 when usa stood aside and watched there allies get beatin from germany hell it has bin said if germany took the fight to usa who you think would of won

) but after germany took france and was watching churchill almost fall did i forget to mention aliies Usa still wouldnt land not one troop why is that ??? anyone only after japan took out hawaii did usa join the war but still would not land one troop on foriegn land anyone ???? why
only after churchill and stalin had germany on the run did usa land funny chit tho how usa took it like they one the war

then comes to the point who is really the super power usa has 7900 nuclear capable weapons russia 17,900 armed an ready
pakistan where binladen is did i forget to mention USA try next country over if ya think your goin to find him
but then again pakistan is nuclear and as well a very powerful country that usa is worried about
then you have the super power the one that rules all and that would be china

With just over 1.3 billion people (1,330,044,605 as of mid-200

, China is the world's most populous country.
As the world's population is approximately 6.7 billion, China represents a full 20% of the world's population so one in every five people on the planet is a resident of China.
with usa lil over 300 million

doc111 · Mar 15, 2011

DrFever said:
kinda like world war 2 when usa stood aside and watched there allies get beatin from germany hell it has bin said if germany took the fight to usa who you think would of won ) but after germany took france and was watching churchill almost fall did i forget to mention aliies Usa still wouldnt land not one troop why is that ??? anyone only after japan took out hawaii did usa join the war but still would not land one troop on foriegn land anyone ???? why
only after churchill and stalin had germany on the run did usa land funny chit tho how usa took it like they one the war

then comes to the point who is really the super power usa has 7900 nuclear capable weapons russia 17,900 armed an ready
pakistan where binladen is did i forget to mention USA try next country over if ya think your goin to find him
but then again pakistan is nuclear and as well a very powerful country that usa is worried about
then you have the super power the one that rules all and that would be china

With just over 1.3 billion people (1,330,044,605 as of mid-200, China is the world's most populous country.
As the world's population is approximately 6.7 billion, China represents a full 20% of the world's population so one in every five people on the planet is a resident of China.
with usa lil over 300 million

Huh????????? :???:

Padawanbater2 · Mar 15, 2011

MuyLocoNC said:
They aren't better than EVERYONE else, but they are certainly better than you.

Maybe they feel they have more foreign affairs experience because they actually have foreign affairs experience. As in, they've actually been to these countries, spoken with the citizens, eaten with them and fought with them. As opposed to the limitless experience of a college student reading revised history and being lectured by a progressive professor with ZERO experience beyond reading those very same revised history books. Maybe that has some small part in their perceived superiority on that subject.

I tend to lean in their favor.

Why is a soldier better than a civilian?

What is your definition of "better" in this context?

I didn't say "foreign affairs experience", I said "...gives them a better understanding of foreign policy, foreign relations, diplomacy, etc.". I completely agree, as stated from the OP that they would obviously have on the ground experience. This is completely different from foreign relations and diplomacy. Simply being a soldier doesn't give you any more experience in that than being a civilian. That is academic knowledge. It's studying history. Studying alliances, ties, connections, becoming literate in those kinds of things. So these people can fire weapons and believe they are "protecting my rights", ....k, you go ahead and explain how that means they, and feel free to use my buddy here as an example, hold more experience in those areas than I would because I've never joined the military.

doc111 said:
Yeah, pretty much! Is there any point in spinning your wheels?

What the hell kind of attitude is that to have? Of course there is a point - get people to open their eyes to the reality of existence. Make them stop believing in nonsensical fairy tales and realize the truth and beauty of life. I believe this is the fundamental key to happiness. Who would oppose that? The crazy shit people believe in, as I've said plenty of times before, have a negative ripple effect throughout the rest of society, which leads to things like militaries, and people like you believing we need them...

doc111 said:
You rail against everything that YOU perceive to be a problem. The problem is that the majority of people don't agree with you.

The majority of people believe in invisible magical beings.

... :wall:

doc111 said:
You could sit on forums all day typing shit and trying to "change" the world, or you can DO something.

Writing on forums IS doing something, believe it or not. And I do plenty more in my private life, I don't feel the need to share that with anyone as I don't do it for the thank you's.

doc111 said:
I joined the military over 20 years ago, long before the U.S. became the world pariah. I was a medic. I fed and vaccinated Somali children, hundreds of them! I spent nearly 15 years fighting fire and helping sick and injured people for a living. I've done SOMETHING with my life and I would do it all again, even with all the horrific things I've been exposed to, I wouldn't change a thing.

That's all well and good, but in the grand scheme of things, you simply helped perpetuate a system of corruption that spans the entire globe. The military industrial complex. That's why I could never join the military.

doc111 said:
I'll let you judge for yourself whether or not the things I did were noble or not. I believe they were. Now, what's YOUR plan for "fixing" the ills of the world?

I'm not in any place to judge if what you did was noble. That is for you to decide. If you're happy with it and you feel like you contributed to the benefit of mankind, to whatever degree that might be, then that's all that matters.

Personally though, yes, I do believe what you did was noble as there's not much one man can really do in such a world without help. It's all of us against an, in all intents and purposes, invisible group of people and all of us are divided amongst ourselves which makes us weak.

DirtPoor · Mar 15, 2011

Padawan- you honestly believe that we don't need the military? If yes then you sir are an idiot, if no then excuse me. And FYI, you did just judge doc111 when you said that "in the grand scheme of things, you simply helped perpetuate a system of corruption that spans the entire globe"...I mean really dude for shit sake, the man said he was helping Somali children that needed help...children! It doesn't get any better then that. The grand scheme of things...the shit people come up with, ugh.

NoDrama · Mar 15, 2011

Where does Padawan state he thinks we shouldn't have a Military?

newatit2010 · Mar 15, 2011

Tomoyo said:
My grandpa never or almost barley talks about his experience in the military..of course that's was when the Japanese-Americans had no choice and were put into those camps at the beginning of the war with Japan in WWII. Most of the sons and fathers would go off to war to get away from the life of being in those camps. My grandpa would translate Japanese morse code to the Navajo Code Talkers in Saipan. He was some sort of communicator that would tell ships where to launch shells. I do tell my grandpa that it's important and he should feel proud and not ashamed or a "loser" as he says. He is no "loser" by any means..He's 91 years old and still able to live on his own and drive and live a normal life like a grandpa would..to me that's amazing..the fact he's been through all that mess in his life and he's still around.

Your grand father was a great man to have worked with the Navajo. Please thank him

DirtPoor · Mar 15, 2011

NoDrama said:
Where does Padawan state he thinks we shouldn't have a Military?

Post 106 2nd response, last sentence: ..."which leads to things like militaries, and people like you believing we need them..."

NoDrama · Mar 15, 2011

DirtPoor said:
Post 106 2nd response, last sentence: ..."which leads to things like militaries, and people like you believing we need them..."

That doesn't prove he doesn't want them. Needing and wanting are different things. You are trying to put words in his mouth, a logical fallacy, a Strawman argument to be more precise.

doc111 · Mar 15, 2011

Padawanbater2 said:
Why is a soldier better than a civilian?

What is your definition of "better" in this context?

I didn't say "foreign affairs experience", I said "...gives them a better understanding of foreign policy, foreign relations, diplomacy, etc.". I completely agree, as stated from the OP that they would obviously have on the ground experience. This is completely different from foreign relations and diplomacy. Simply being a soldier doesn't give you any more experience in that than being a civilian. That is academic knowledge. It's studying history. Studying alliances, ties, connections, becoming literate in those kinds of things. So these people can fire weapons and believe they are "protecting my rights", ....k, you go ahead and explain how that means they, and feel free to use my buddy here as an example, hold more experience in those areas than I would because I've never joined the military.

What the hell kind of attitude is that to have? Of course there is a point - get people to open their eyes to the reality of existence. Make them stop believing in nonsensical fairy tales and realize the truth and beauty of life. I believe this is the fundamental key to happiness. Who would oppose that? The crazy shit people believe in, as I've said plenty of times before, have a negative ripple effect throughout the rest of society, which leads to things like militaries, and people like you believing we need them...

The majority of people believe in invisible magical beings.

...

Writing on forums IS doing something, believe it or not. And I do plenty more in my private life, I don't feel the need to share that with anyone as I don't do it for the thank you's.

That's all well and good, but in the grand scheme of things, you simply helped perpetuate a system of corruption that spans the entire globe. The military industrial complex. That's why I could never join the military.

I'm not in any place to judge if what you did was noble. That is for you to decide. If you're happy with it and you feel like you contributed to the benefit of mankind, to whatever degree that might be, then that's all that matters.

Personally though, yes, I do believe what you did was noble as there's not much one man can really do in such a world without help. It's all of us against an, in all intents and purposes, invisible group of people and all of us are divided amongst ourselves which makes us weak.

Well, I was joking Pad. I kinda thought the brief summary of my life's work would've been the giveaway. I didn't ask you to share what you've done, you could've if you would have so wished. I didn't give you a couple of vague examples of my contributions to society for thank you's or gratitude or any of that ticker tape parade bullshit. That said, there's nothing wrong with thanking someone who has made positive contributions to society and I personally believe that there aren't too many other higher callings than to go into public service. That's MY OPINION. Yours is obviously different and, thankfully, not shared by society at large. You say this "group" of people is invisible. Then how can one fight what one cannot see? lol! Nobody has ever proven the existence of a shadow government but I digress. Whether you agree with what the government does or not, how can you judge the people who defend this country like that? Someone is awful full of themselves methinks! Loved the jab at religion BTW, even though it had absolutely no relevance to our discussion! Any chance to take a shot at people's beliefs who are different from your own I guess. :roll:

doc111 · Mar 15, 2011

DirtPoor said:
Padawan- you honestly believe that we don't need the military? If yes then you sir are an idiot, if no then excuse me. And FYI, you did just judge doc111 when you said that "in the grand scheme of things, you simply helped perpetuate a system of corruption that spans the entire globe"...I mean really dude for shit sake, the man said he was helping Somali children that needed help...children! It doesn't get any better then that. The grand scheme of things...the shit people come up with, ugh.

lol! We live in a world of confusion and misinformation. Some people see only the bad, others only the good. Others see only what they wish to see. I did what I believed was right and I'd do it again without hesitation. I didn't do the things I did for medals or to have people kiss my ass. I simply wanted to live a good life (and I'm a bit of an adrenaline junky ;-)

) and try to make a difference in some small way. My family didn't have a lot of money and they couldn't afford to send me straight to college so I went in for the G.I. Bill at first. I wanted to get out in the world and do my thing and travel and I really enjoyed it for the most part. My experiences made me the man I am today and I like that person. This wasn't always the case. Self esteem can be a bitch and takes a long time to build up. I'm a bit stoned and now I'm rambling! lol! :eyesmoke:

DirtPoor · Mar 16, 2011

NoDrama said:
That doesn't prove he doesn't want them. Needing and wanting are different things. You are trying to put words in his mouth, a logical fallacy, a Strawman argument to be more precise.

Gee thank you doctor obvious!!! Hence the question I asked him, which resulted in the question you asked me. Try this on for size...when a question is adressed to you, answer it...when it's not, stfu.

DirtPoor · Mar 16, 2011

doc111 said:
lol! We live in a world of confusion and misinformation. Some people see only the bad, others only the good. Others see only what they wish to see. I did what I believed was right and I'd do it again without hesitation. I didn't do the things I did for medals or to have people kiss my ass. I simply wanted to live a good life (and I'm a bit of an adrenaline junky) and try to make a difference in some small way. My family didn't have a lot of money and they couldn't afford to send me straight to college so I went in for the G.I. Bill at first. I wanted to get out in the world and do my thing and travel and I really enjoyed it for the most part. My experiences made me the man I am today and I like that person. This wasn't always the case. Self esteem can be a bitch and takes a long time to build up. I'm a bit stoned and now I'm rambling! lol!

The military is a great option for people that want benefits and structure in their lives while contributing to the nation and the betterment of mankind, not to mention it separates the boys from the men (a few slip by). It just amazes me how some people are so blind and can't seem to appreciate what we have, we truly are a part of the greatest country in the world. Unfourtunatly though where there is good, there is always evil...you just have to deal with it you know.

doc111 · Mar 16, 2011

DirtPoor said:
The military is a great option for people that want benefits and structure in their lives while contributing to the nation and the betterment of mankind, not to mention it separates the boys from the men (a few slip by). It just amazes me how some people are so blind and can't seem to appreciate what we have, we truly are a part of the greatest country in the world. Unfourtunatly though where there is good, there is always evil...you just have to deal with it you know.

Agreed. It just baffles me how some can be so obtuse as not to see that the military isn't completely evil. It's just like the government. Some people are so caught up in all the bad shit government does (and they do a lot of it) that they don't see the good things government does. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, however, and I realize that I can't change the opinons of those who believe the military is just some unfeeling juggernaut. Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors, and Marines are all people, just like you and me, and they have children and families and most want to try to make the world a better place. Whether or not the military has succeeded in making the world a safer place for Americans is a debate for a different thread. Everything has consequences and meddling in foreign affairs can have really nasty consequences. I don't always agree with how the U.S. handles its foreign policy, especially these days. That doesn't mean I label everybody in government and the military as a mindless drone, subservient to some unseen master. I think we will start seeing a change in the U.S. approach to foreign policy and realize we cannot possibly police the world. It won't happen over night though. :sad:

DirtPoor · Mar 16, 2011

doc111 said:
Agreed. It just baffles me how some can be so obtuse as not to see that the military isn't completely evil. It's just like the government. Some people are so caught up in all the bad shit government does (and they do a lot of it) that they don't see the good things government does. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, however, and I realize that I can't change the opinons of those who believe the military is just some unfeeling juggernaut. Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors, and Marines are all people, just like you and me, and they have children and families and most want to try to make the world a better place. Whether or not the military has succeeded in making the world a safer place for Americans is a debate for a different thread. Everything has consequences and meddling in foreign affairs can have really nasty consequences. I don't always agree with how the U.S. handles its foreign policy, especially these days. That doesn't mean I label everybody in government and the military as a mindless drone, subservient to some unseen master. I think we will start seeing a change in the U.S. approach to foreign policy and realize we cannot possibly police the world. It won't happen over night though.

Well said, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Padawanbater2 · Mar 16, 2011

DirtPoor said:
Padawan- you honestly believe that we don't need the military? If yes then you sir are an idiot, if no then excuse me. And FYI, you did just judge doc111 when you said that "in the grand scheme of things, you simply helped perpetuate a system of corruption that spans the entire globe"...I mean really dude for shit sake, the man said he was helping Somali children that needed help...children! It doesn't get any better then that. The grand scheme of things...the shit people come up with, ugh.

No, that's not what I said. Unfortunately in the world we've created we do need a military to protect our assets to sustain the lavish life we (including myself) live.

In that sense, yes, we need one... But do we need to be occupying over 100 countries.. do we need to spend over $600 billion annually on defense...? I hope even you, sir, can agree that the answer to those questions is no, we do not need a military for that.

Also, you seem to have missed the part where I said I believe the stuff doc said he's done is noble and respectable. I can simultaneously believe he helped perpetuate a corrupt system - the military industrial complex - in doing so. Not sure where the confusion came from..

One more thing, in your opinion, who do you think was right or wrong between my friend and I and why? Whole dialogue is on post #26

doc111 said:
That said, there's nothing wrong with thanking someone who has made positive contributions to society and I personally believe that there aren't too many other higher callings than to go into public service.

Well feel free to create your own thread thanking all the soldiers for their positive contributions to society. :idea:

doc111 said:
Nobody has ever proven the existence of a shadow government but I digress.

..not what I was referring to..

doc111 said:
Whether you agree with what the government does or not, how can you judge the people who defend this country like that?

Well because I hold each individual person responsible for the decisions they make. It is because of the soldier, who before they put on the uniform, allowed themselves to be manipulated by this system of corruption. In a sense it's just like being indoctrinated as a child with religion. I didn't bring that up in the previous post to "jab" it, I brought it up because there are scary similarities between the two. As kids we're told being in the military is "defending freedom, protecting rights, etc." all the bullshit... yet you grow up to find that it's a lie. Our militaries occupation of other countries is one of the main reasons there is so much global anti-American opinion these days, and can you blame them? Why, when everyone here whose disagreed with me so far would never allow a foreign countries military to occupy our land. Why is it different for us?

Answers to those questions will never be provided...

In short, they make a choice, imo, it makes the world a more dangerous place and leads politicians to restrict our rights under the guise of safety and security.

doc111 said:
I simply wanted to live a good life (and I'm a bit of an adrenaline junky) and try to make a difference in some small way. My family didn't have a lot of money and they couldn't afford to send me straight to college so I went in for the G.I. Bill at first.

There you go.. you did it for the money for school, which I would say is why the majority of people sign up for the military these days.

Whats with the "I fought for peace, for your fucking freedom" bit..?

If soldiers didn't do it for the thank you's then why do they say that? They expect this shit. They expect respect.

doc111 said:
Agreed. It just baffles me how some can be so obtuse as not to see that the military isn't completely evil. It's just like the government.

Well, the obtuse ones seem to be immune to the Stockholm syndrome symptoms the rest of you with alarming nationalistic pride seem to be experiencing.. You're the beat up, battered wife of America telling the cops you called the same shit the third time this month... "he isn't completely evil.."

...maybe I'm just being obtuse..

doc111 said:
Some people are so caught up in all the bad shit government does (and they do a lot of it) that they don't see the good things government does.

Some people are so caught up in all the good shit government does (and they do a lot of it) that they don't see the bad things government does.

:wall:

doc111 said:
That doesn't mean I label everybody in government and the military as a mindless drone, subservient to some unseen master.

Nice red herring.

londonfog · Mar 16, 2011

My question is if you never visited the place you are debating about ...what would be your source of info to know about the place...??? Really how can you debate about someplace without going and talking with, eating with, learning from the people themselves ...???? Now with that being said you still will always have folks that twist things and change it to fit their point of view, but you would have a better argument/debate if you went and experience it for yourself..and for the record stupid people are everywhere...military,college,court houses...everywhere

doc111 · Mar 17, 2011

Padawanbater2 said:
No, that's not what I said. Unfortunately in the world we've created we do need a military to protect our assets to sustain the lavish life we (including myself) live.

In that sense, yes, we need one... But do we need to be occupying over 100 countries.. do we need to spend over $600 billion annually on defense...? I hope even you, sir, can agree that the answer to those questions is no, we do not need a military for that.

Also, you seem to have missed the part where I said I believe the stuff doc said he's done is noble and respectable. I can simultaneously believe he helped perpetuate a corrupt system - the military industrial complex - in doing so. Not sure where the confusion came from..

One more thing, in your opinion, who do you think was right or wrong between my friend and I and why? Whole dialogue is on post #26 That would be you Pad, IMO of course. I think I've already made my position crystal clear.

Well feel free to create your own thread thanking all the soldiers for their positive contributions to society. I just may! Thanks for the idea!

..not what I was referring to..

Well because I hold each individual person responsible for the decisions they make. It is because of the soldier, who before they put on the uniform, allowed themselves to be manipulated by this system of corruption. In a sense it's just like being indoctrinated as a child with religion. I didn't bring that up in the previous post to "jab" it, I brought it up because there are scary similarities between the two. As kids we're told being in the military is "defending freedom, protecting rights, etc." all the bullshit... yet you grow up to find that it's a lie. Our militaries occupation of other countries is one of the main reasons there is so much global anti-American opinion these days, and can you blame them? Why, when everyone here whose disagreed with me so far would never allow a foreign countries military to occupy our land. Why is it different for us?

Answers to those questions will never be provided...

In short, they make a choice, imo, it makes the world a more dangerous place and leads politicians to restrict our rights under the guise of safety and security. *Yawn* Matter of opinion.

There you go.. you did it for the money for school, which I would say is why the majority of people sign up for the military these days. Please refer to my previous statement;
I simply wanted to live a good life (and I'm a bit of an adrenaline junky

) and try to make a difference in some small way. My family didn't have a lot of money and they couldn't afford to send me straight to college so I went in for the G.I. Bill at first.

Whats with the "I fought for peace, for your fucking freedom" bit..? You ever hear me say this? What's with your disdain for men and women putting their lives on the line to "fight for your fucking freedom"?

If soldiers didn't do it for the thank you's then why do they say that? They expect this shit. They expect respect. Everyone does Pad. It's human nature.

Well, the obtuse ones seem to be immune to the Stockholm syndrome symptoms the rest of you with alarming nationalistic pride seem to be experiencing.. You're the beat up, battered wife of America telling the cops you called the same shit the third time this month... "he isn't completely evil.." I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. Stockholm syndrome is a reference to a captive empathizing and even siding with their hostage takers. I volunteered, nobody held a gun to my head.

...maybe I'm just being obtuse..

Some people are so caught up in all the good shit government does (and they do a lot of it) that they don't see the bad things government does. You're absolutely right!

Nice red herring. Nope! I'm not a big fan of smoked fish.

You go on and keep enjoying that freedom to sit there and spew your bile that the sacrifices our men and women in uniform have afforded you. Good luck. kiss-ass

Why do American soldiers think...

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