Attention Atheist

mindphuk · Jun 3, 2010

dickdasterdly666 said:
You see what i didnt want to do was get into a throw and catch session,
i throw information and you throw information back and it goes on and on.

What exactly did you expect?

since with my limited knowledge and ur vast background and academic achievements maybe you can shed a bit more light on this subject for me to have a better understanding, your talking about mutation, and in my stone age knowledge i thought that there is no reason or evidence that a simple single cell could or would be able to initiate any type of development of intelligent alien functions and systems and certainly not by accidental error, no matter the length of period of time.

Not quite sure what you mean by intelligent alien functions and systems. Unless mutations occur in the germ cells (ovum and sperm in sexually reproducing beings), the traits that mutations change will not be passed down.

And all the observable evidence of genetic copying errors and mutations does not do anything in the adding intelligent or alien department but rather produces clear defects and harmful growth.
Has there been up till this moment in time any observation of mutations within an organism that starts to create a new alien biological element or function?

Most mutations are either harmful or neutral. There are certainly some that are beneficial. Examples of new function would be the nylonase producing bacteria that is the result of a change in the genome (apparently a frame shift mutation but that is still debated) to create an enzyme that can digest a synthetic product that has only existed since the 1930's. We have found close to 500 frame shift mutations in humans as compared to chimpanzees.

i wanted to approach this from a different point with something that is new and not an old debate thats why im holding out on any proofs or evidences. im not here to prove you wrong or to be right and throw old news, i simply have new{new to you and the others anyway} information that i thought i should present, and you can estimate it at any value or in any way.
we are all researching and coming to conclusions arnt we?

The problem with darwins theory and all the other big names in the show is that it always has to adjust to try and stay dry and to me anything that can change direction and shift once is untrustworthy.

I already discussed this in my first reply to you, did you read it? Every discipline in science is subject to modification when new evidence comes to light. This is not a liability, it is what makes science so strong. Mistakes get weeded out in favor of better or more complete ideas. Newton was generally correct on his mechanics of motion but Einstein showed it was incomplete and that Newtonian equations were wrong at velocities approaching the speed of light and strong gravity. Newtonian physics wasn't overturned but was updated and refined to cover situations that Newton never observed. Darwin had to be updated to include the new science of genetics, which added some twists but basically confirmed and supported natural selection. Every new discovery has a chance to falsify a scientific theory but when 150 years go by and every new piece of evidence supports a theory rather than falsifies it, the theory becomes even stronger with a higher level of confidence.

I wont get into another one ill get onto my point quick.
simple English questions and no need for long and complicated play it safe questions, this isnt a mouse trap.

1-Do you think the truth is always concealed by governments/ groups etc..? Not always but generally if it will benefit them enough and they think they can get away with it.

2-If i got a machine that no one has tested before and no one has seen, and asked who do you think can explain to you this type of machine and its function? Probably a committee of engineers, scientist, metallurgists, etc. depending on what the machine appears to comprise of. Who would you ask?

3-if you want to ask a question about a subject where do you go?
lets say you want to ask about making a cake, where do you go to? barber? shoe maker? no you go to a chef or a cake factory right? if you agree on this then ill move on
Depends on the subject. I don't suggest going to bible thumping creationists to get information on Darwinian evolution just as I wouldn't ask an atheist scientist to tell me about Jesus and scripture.
i hope you understand the simple English im speaking.

Where are you going with these questions?

dickdasterdly666 · Jun 3, 2010

mindphuk said:
What exactly did you expect?

Not quite sure what you mean by intelligent alien functions and systems. Unless mutations occur in the germ cells (ovum and sperm in sexually reproducing beings), the traits that mutations change will not be passed down. Most mutations are either harmful or neutral. There are certainly some that are beneficial. Examples of new function would be the nylonase producing bacteria that is the result of a change in the genome (apparently a frame shift mutation but that is still debated) to create an enzyme that can digest a synthetic product that has only existed since the 1930's. We have found close to 500 frame shift mutations in humans as compared to chimpanzees.

i wanted to approach this from a different point with something that is new and not an old debate thats why im holding out on any proofs or evidences. im not here to prove you wrong or to be right and throw old news, i simply have new{new to you and the others anyway} information that i thought i should present, and you can estimate it at any value or in any way.
we are all researching and coming to conclusions arnt we?I already discussed this in my first reply to you, did you read it? Every discipline in science is subject to modification when new evidence comes to light. This is not a liability, it is what makes science so strong. Mistakes get weeded out in favor of better or more complete ideas. Newton was generally correct on his mechanics of motion but Einstein showed it was incomplete and that Newtonian equations were wrong at velocities approaching the speed of light and strong gravity. Newtonian physics wasn't overturned but was updated and refined to cover situations that Newton never observed. Darwin had to be updated to include the new science of genetics, which added some twists but basically confirmed and supported natural selection. Every new discovery has a chance to falsify a scientific theory but when 150 years go by and every new piece of evidence supports a theory rather than falsifies it, the theory becomes even stronger with a higher level of confidence.
Where are you going with these questions?

intelligent alien functions and systems: as in complex functions and systems that evolved with no prior encoding or information for building certain structures and systems.

thats not my point anyway, and i understand that science has to be refined all the time, like they used to think the moon had its own light and later figured otherwise etc... which to me means that science is nothing to cling onto as the definite truth as its flawed, especially when you look back at history and see all the scientific mishaps of the past, oh we thought it did so but know we know otherwise. so to me science is a great thing but its nothing that i can cling on too firmly.
A.Einstein. science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
i think that's a great statement.

anyway forget all that for a minute, i dont want to take your time but im trying to just draw a few things into light, if they help great if they dont then its ok too.
everyone is entitled to their own stance.

1) fair enough. some more than others i suppose.
2)hehe, how about the manufacturer or the designer or etc.. i think that you meant that anyway with what u suggested . unless im wrong?
3)good then we agree on all that.

So my "Claim" is that i have in my possession a type of encyclopedia that is centuries old and i have inside it all the solutions to all mankind's problems and on top of that i have FACTUAL scientific evidence and im not talking about something like A bee produces honey. more along the lines of a vastly detailed description of very complex subjects that only with the aid of advanced technological equipment would be able to be explained.
Great detail about the water cycle and clouds and lightning, step by step of embryonic development, the design of mountains and their function, origin of the universe, cerebrum, about the seas and rivers and the barriers between them, the deep sea and darkness and waves over each other in the sea which can only be studied in salinity changes or temp..., the big bang, origin of life and so on those are amongst many. and my last claim is that this book is FLAWLESS. not even one grammatical mistake and not once scientific mistake or one contradiction and is capable of clearing all types of hate and racism and preserving equality.

Now lets say my Claim is a FACT.{imagine lol}
do you think that the corrupt people in power these days would let me publish this encyclopedia for the whole world to see and benefit from? even if it means they be stripped of their powers and arrogant seats and corruption and money theft and that billionaires cannot be billionaires anymore and the end to hunger in every corner on the globe? keep in mind how much something like this would be damagingly against government policies, politics in general and the most powerful and influential people on earth.

420ezah420 · Jun 3, 2010

afrawfraw said:
Promordial is spelled primordial , and you didn't even capitalize GOD, and dumb ass is two words! Sorry I'm a dumb ass...

hmmm. that figures the only thing you have to argue is my punctuation, grammer, and spelling, Since you have no argument for why we got lucky over and over and over again.

420ezah420 · Jun 3, 2010

Please go rent and watch into the universe, then tell me that you believe in the big bang. Every scientist who tries to state this as a fact cannot do so without saying luck, luck, luck. The complexity of dna, and the entire process of life is not possible just by chance. It didnt just so happen genius.

bajafox · Jun 3, 2010

420ezah420 said:
Please go rent and watch into the universe, then tell me that you believe in the big bang. Every scientist who tries to state this as a fact cannot do so without saying luck, luck, luck. The complexity of dna, and the entire process of life is not possible just by chance. It didnt just so happen genius.

It took 7 whole days right?

Genesis 1:2-2:10 (New International Version)

2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morningthe first day.

6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morningthe second day.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morningthe third day.

14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lightsthe greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morningthe fourth day.

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morningthe fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the groundeverything that has the breath of life in itI give every green plant for food." And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morningthe sixth day.

Genesis 2

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested [c] from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done

This is your argument on how the world was created correct?

420ezah420 · Jun 3, 2010

Its pretty sad that gods own children do everything in their power to disprove god, only to gain the notion that our life is accidental and we are soulless. Maybe you guys should stop living in family guy cartoons. Must you latch on to other peoples stupidity just to feel cool and fit in? You all admit that you are unsure of how everything came about, yet you are 100% positive that god doesent exist. How can you be so sure if you cannot even prove the big bang as a fact.Just to let you know the big bang is still a theory and it always will be until the day all life parishes from earth.

#1 you cannot prove it.

#2 you never will be able to.

#3 scientists have made fools of themselves time and time again.

How are you so sure that god was'nt responsible for the big bang?
Is there physical proof? No.
Will there ever be? No

It all comes down to your realization that we have souls that need to be fulfilled.
Have you ever tried to do anything to benefit your life?

Guess what that is your soul trying to fulfill itslef. If not youre life would be a hell of alot different.

420ezah420 · Jun 3, 2010

bajafox said:
It took 7 whole days right?

This is your argument on how the world was created correct?

I dont go by the bible.IF the bible never existed I would feel the same way.
It doesent matter how the hell it happened, I am not dumbshit enough to believe that the entire universe is accidental.
We have a purpose, we have souls.

Dont believe me? Then why the hell do you feel the need to disprove god? That is strictly your soul wanting to fulfill itself genius.

mindphuk · Jun 3, 2010

dickdasterdly666 said:
Now lets say my Claim is a FACT.{imagine lol}
do you think that the corrupt people in power these days would let me publish this encyclopedia for the whole world to see and benefit from? even if it means they be stripped of their powers and arrogant seats and corruption and money theft and that billionaires cannot be billionaires anymore and the end to hunger in every corner on the globe? keep in mind how much something like this would be damagingly against government policies, politics in general and the most powerful and influential people on earth.

I'm not sure how such a book would be so threatening to politicians. I also don't see how anyone in power can stop the spread of information in a society like we have today so i think they would have no say in whether it was published or not. Thankfully we live in a time when the free exchange of ideas is valued (unless it is a depiction of Mohammad in a cartoon).

can I ask what this has to do with our current discussion?

mindphuk · Jun 3, 2010

420ezah420 said:
I dont go by the bible.IF the bible never existed I would feel the same way.
It doesent matter how the hell it happened, I am not dumbshit enough to believe that the entire universe is accidental.
We have a purpose, we have souls.

Dont believe me? Then why the hell do you feel the need to disprove god? That is strictly your soul wanting to fulfill itself genius.

No, you believe a magical, invisible being existed before anything else existed including time, spoke everything into existence for the sole purpose of bringing into existence humans 13 billion years later so that he would have company? He did this all for us but also created billions upon billions of other stars with enormous amounts of empty space all inhospitable to life, but he did it for us.
Yep, makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:

dickdasterdly666 · Jun 3, 2010

420ezah420 said:
Its pretty sad that gods own children do everything in their power to disprove god, only to gain the notion that our life is accidental and we are soulless. Maybe you guys should stop living in family guy cartoons. Must you latch on to other peoples stupidity just to feel cool and fit in? You all admit that you are unsure of how everything came about, yet you are 100% positive that god doesent exist. How can you be so sure if you cannot even prove the big bang as a fact.Just to let you know the big bang is still a theory and it always will be until the day all life parishes from earth.

#1 you cannot prove it.

#2 you never will be able to.

#3 scientists have made fools of themselves time and time again.

How are you so sure that god was'nt responsible for the big bang?
Is there physical proof? No.
Will there ever be? No

It all comes down to your realization that we have souls that need to be fulfilled.
Have you ever tried to do anything to benefit your life?

Guess what that is your soul trying to fulfill itslef. If not youre life would be a hell of alot different.

--------------------------------------------------
im not going against you on anything else, but the big bang did happen actually but we just dont know the correct conditions that took place during it taking place.

dickdasterdly666 · Jun 3, 2010

Im getting there pardon me for the diversion.
well if you know about politics you should know its a load of crap. they are the biggest liers in the business and they will use all the money for their leisure and they will happily kill thousands of innocent people in wars around the world and will never feel guilty about it + they control the media{as in the government} which can be used to do wonders.
so now imagine what that book would do, first there will be no more fighting around the world. which means no more weapons manufacturing/exporting/distributing/selling which means no more war in the world which means they lose all power and money and lifestyle and so on.

lol funny you mentioned Mohammad{pbu}.
You see you find it hard to see how a book of this caliber can escape detection but your really underestimating the weight of the ones in power that can do brilliant wonders.
you see lets say my claim is that book is called the Koran. do you still find it difficult to understand how a book of that caliber that was recited by an unlettered man could be lying undetected?
you wouldnt go to a scientist and ask about scripture or to a preacher for quantum physics? so why take what an english channel is saying or to what Hillary Clinton has to say about the matter? {Jihad school= lol kills me everytime}
so where do you go?

dickdasterdly666 · Jun 3, 2010

mindphuk said:
can I ask what this has to do with our current discussion?

Sorry forgot to address that, My point is that we all have different views in life and we come from all types of walks,
and we research and seek knowledge and share different ideas. "IF" there was a god, would you not want to know what he is and what he is like? i mean especially as someone interested in science. and now im telling you if you believe i no god thats fine, but as you know already about Christianity would you not get tickled to want to find out what the other 1.6billion{and growing at a phenomenal rate} are talking about? thats all im saying.

bajafox · Jun 3, 2010

420ezah420 said:
Its pretty sad that gods own children do everything in their power to disprove god, only to gain the notion that our life is accidental and we are soulless. Maybe you guys should stop living in family guy cartoons. Must you latch on to other peoples stupidity just to feel cool and fit in? You all admit that you are unsure of how everything came about, yet you are 100% positive that god doesent exist. How can you be so sure if you cannot even prove the big bang as a fact.Just to let you know the big bang is still a theory and it always will be until the day all life parishes from earth.

Well it's obvious now that you're just a troll trying to get a rise out of people, you have nothing intelligent to say whatsoever to back up any of your statements.

By the way, I am not religious by any means but I do respect religions and always capitalize "his" name.

dickdasterdly666 · Jun 3, 2010

bajafox said:
Well it's obvious now that you're just a troll trying to get a rise out of people, you have nothing intelligent to say whatsoever to back up any of your statements.

By the way, I am not religious by any means but I do respect religions and always capitalize "his" name.

Great, thank you for your thoughts and feelings and im sorry you think im trolling to get a rise out of people.
Super, your perfect im not in fact im far below you.

andar · Jun 3, 2010

Originally Posted by bajafox

Well it's obvious now that you're just a troll trying to get a rise out of people, you have nothing intelligent to say whatsoever to back up any of your statements.

have you read the very first post of this thread? this whole damn thread is just trying to get a rise out of people. its hilarious this thread is so long. have fun with this never ending never provable topic.

bajafox · Jun 3, 2010

I just started reading this keyboard vomit a few days ago...

bajafox · Jun 3, 2010

dickdasterdly666 said:
Great, thank you for your thoughts and feelings and im sorry you think im trolling to get a rise out of people.
Super, your perfect im not in fact im far below you.

Knowing that right there my friend is the first step to your new life.

dickdasterdly666 · Jun 3, 2010

Im Delighted.

dickdasterdly666 · Jun 3, 2010

we arnt talking about this topic anymore, if you bothered to go through the last few pages you could have understood where we are.

dickdasterdly666 · Jun 3, 2010

andar said:
Originally Posted by bajafox
Well it's obvious now that you're just a troll trying to get a rise out of people, you have nothing intelligent to say whatsoever to back up any of your statements.

have you read the very first post of this thread? this whole damn thread is just trying to get a rise out of people. its hilarious this thread is so long. have fun with this never ending never provable topic.

we arnt talking about this topic anymore, if you bothered to go through the last few pages you could have understood where we are.

Attention Atheist

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member