What's Wrong With Science?

Kartel Kriminal · Mar 5, 2011

Heisenberg said:
Mistakes of memory, perception and logic would still be present in an isolated and emotionless individual. Those mistakes come from internal mechanisms, not external influences. Once again, you are ignorant of what those mistakes are, and respond based on your half baked understanding. What seems more likely, that you are above making those sorts of mistakes, or that you don't understand the nature and specifics of those mistakes? And again you side step the question of what any of that has to do with free will.

Your being aggressive now. I like that. I do as I freely will and I'm not programmed to be prone to anything was the point. That was clearly stated in the first sentence or atleast I thought it was. Theres nothing more half baked about me than there is you. You still have a moot point because everything you say is spawned out of spite for your opposing faction which is organized religion, rather than disproving me and my beliefs.

mindphuk · Mar 5, 2011

Kartel Kriminal said:
Actually I was applying the idea of faith to both science and religion. There's nothing fallace about what I say because I don't speak falsely. You interpreted what I said to be false because you haven't been paying close enough attention.

I understand that you were trying to apply the idea of faith to both science and religion, however the problem is that you are using two different meanings of the word to make that connection, therefore the connection really isn't there like you claim it is.

Second, I never said you spoke falsely. That would imply knowledge and intent. I don't think you made the mistake purposely. I'm not sure you know what the word fallacy means. It only means that your argument is not logically valid. Logic is the only way we can have any confidence in the truth of a statement. The syllogism about Halle Berry was supposed to demonstrate the mistake you made by using the word 'hot' instead of 'faith.' If you think that Halle Berry's hotness will literally burn me, we have more of a fundamental problem that cannot be fixed here.

Subjective statement once again. What your ideas lack I have already attained through faith. Hows about I invert what you just said to criticize you? Science is searching for something when there is no damn good reason to. I don't necessarilly believe that but both science and religion are stagnant. Stagnant in explaining issues of our demension and the origion of human life.

Subjective statement? No, definition. If we cannot agree on definitions of the basic words we are discussion, then any further debate is pointless.
Why don't you provide a definition of faith that we can agree on.

You have zero critical thinking capabilities. It requires faith to believe in anything you can't prove.

Seriously? A personal attack on my critical thinking abilities? I made no personal attack about you yet you feel it is necessary to make one against me?

I thought we were both adults here and can have a civil conversation, and if you want to be spiritual, lead by example man! Please do not respond that I started it or any bullshit because everyone else here will tell you that the only thing I have done so far is attack your argument, and in any debate, that is ALWAYS fair game and is not a personal attack. If you attempt to do so, this would give me the double whammy irony bonus for being criticized for my critical thinking skills. :lol:

Kartel Kriminal · Mar 5, 2011

I feel as if I'm fighting a battle on several fronts. I apoligize to you all for losing my train of thought as well as my composure. After I do some reviewing of this thread as well as some research,I'll be back to post my thoughts.

Kartel Kriminal · Mar 5, 2011

Whats interesting though is how I've trolled white power threads and they have the exact same repertoire that alot of you guys do. I am UrbanWarFare take what I say with a grain of salt and check this out. This is a bit of a cheek and tongue argument. Tell me if I really have a equivocation problem.

Endgame said:
Damn, we have one hell of a [sic] educated nigger right here.
That much I no [sic].
Only a dumb nigger would correlate an education with intelligence.
It's called false pride, and you're full of it.

UrbanWarFare said:
No you are wrong. I have pride because of what I have endured my entire life at the hands of YOUR society. I did not choose to be here and I DON'T know where I came from. My history was erased but i have gained much self confidence and self esteem through being around my own people. You cannot judge me and you can not tell me who I am. And if you really believed that you could, then you sir are nothing more than an ignoramus to the tenth power.

Endgame said:
As long as you proclaim to be a victim, you will never have pride.
Your minimal time here as already placed you in the victim society.
You'll never force acceptance.
Nigger.

I don't believe humans are this inherently evil as portrayed in the quotes and pictures below, but I believe that some times a good look in the mirror can really change a person perspective on life.

Endgame said:
Every argument that is pro-nigger is always based on the same premise, regardless of who makes the argument... Victimization.
Niggers should be given nothing. Every other race has progressed and succeeded in making a life for themselves while facing obstacles created by others and nature itself. It's the inability to overcome these obstacles that creates the mindset which breeds guilt and support for the incapable.
Let this nigger and its supporters make their way to separate topics. The victim industry is diminished when its forced to lose their group thought process. Anyone who wants to be judged as an individual, based on their own merits, would never support an industry designed to destroy the success of another. It is the nigger breed that has never succeeded and has forced themselves to hold onto the victim industry at all costs, as they know they will never succeed because of their past failed attempts.
It's all they have left. If they want to be victims, show them the true meaning.
They are useless.
They are worthless.
Give them what they give you, nothing.

UrbanWarFare said:
You say everything I say is based on victimization but since i started this fucking thread not shit has been accomplished because of your own race lashing out and ridiculing me. I know what is right and I did what was right! I extended my arm as an olive branch of peace yet you spit in my face. I met a number of your own kind on a common ground then all you do is label them and place them in the same bracket as me. This is why other races have problems with white people they can be ignorant, stubborn, and overbearing even when they know in their heart they are wrong about the things they say and do. Manifest destiny, negro enslavement, and the Holocaust. You white men will always deny your greatest faults in history. Even to the point of cold denial I might add. There's never been any fucking justice given by you to native or displaced people. And you really fucking expect us to respect you and your double standards? After so many years of injustice and mistreatment how can you think any minority wouldn't bite the hand that fed it? This is grudge that you white boys started, not us. All this would be simply solvable by segregation and i stand by that 100%.

Hail Victory said:
This fucking nigger (the OP) has done nothing put prove our points about niggers. He chimps out, makes random arguments, and even got some other bitch (probably white) to defend him. Niggers were enslaved because they weren't good for anything else. Using them for anything other than target practice was a mistake in itself. I dream of a world without any muds, only Aryans. And all race traitors and fags gone as well. Don't worry, monkey boy. We'll put you out of your misery soon enough. We have no desire to be your friend, or to "work with you." What we want (or what I want anyway, I won't try to speak for everyone) is you GONE. I do not feel that it is necessary for me to share this world with people who are not perfect. I do not support the right to life for genetically diseased children, the incurably insane, or non-Aryan people. The disabled will live, unless they are so disabled that it's not even a life they're leading. But these are the people that need to die:
1. Those with disabilities, genetic or otherwise, that prevent them from leading a normal life. People with genetic disabilities which do not prevent them from leading a normal life will be sterilized.
2. The incurably insane.
3. Race traitors.
4. Non-Aryans
In a world without these kinds of people, life would be fantastic, especially without the last two. The OP has done nothing but offer more proof of nigger inequality, and why they don't deserve a place on this Earth. I am not a Creator, but, to quote Ben Klassen: "RAHOWA! This planet is all ours!"
Sieg Heil!
-HV

UrbanWarFare said:
I came to this forum to debate and argue with intelligent like minded people about current event issues and human relations. Yet all i see, read, and witness in this race forum is pure un-adulterated racism for selfish caucasion entertainment purposes. Do you really know what your doing? Somewhere in the world a person who has never had contact with a black person is going to read your nigger bashing post and actually think that what you say true! Your actually spreading propaganda that dark skinned people are sub human, unintelligent, and dangerous. Do you know how much of a fucking threat to society you plebians are? OMFG this really frustrates and worry me that you actually want to spew something detrimental against human peace and equality. Labeling an entire group of people, perpetuating stereotypes for others to believe and saying that your own race of people are superior to another for frivolous reasons is nothing short of sick!!!!

UrbanWarFare said:
Do you believe that I am nigger. Or is there another word *cough* double standard for a educated black person with a vocabulary sir.

El Guapo said:
Nigger covers it. Liar works in your case, too. Hypocrite works as well.

UrbanWarFare said:
Its not like your people haven't labeled my kind before. Tough skin is what i have. If thats what you choose to believe so be it. Just no that I'm not your nigger and never will be.

UrbanWarFare said:
KEEP YOUR ACCEPTANCE YOU PIG OF BABYLON.

Endgame said:
That's right, nigger.
Start acting like you never wanted it now that you know you'll never have it.
You're a failed ape species.
The runt of the litter.

UrbanWarFare said:
Thats so true. Don't you love how an alien race you brought along with you after killing off the other savages of north america dominates all of your own countries athletic associations and pop culture..or do you not own a tv because a nigger invented the circuit that helped create it lol.

Whitey_B_Pistoff said:
Nigger, like most jigaboos you see the world thru nigger colored glasses. How conveniently you ignore all the nigger and mexicoon generated hatred in here. DISMISSED!

UrbanWarFare said:
I don't give a fuck about what other people are saying and you shouldn't either. I'm here discuss things on a more intelligent level than that. Don't project your insecurities onto me.

UrbanWarFare said:
Black people are disenfranchised from too much white domination. The general attitude is the same as it was in the slave days. Master feeds me master takes care of me. NO need to read and write everything will be ok because master says it will. If anyone is at fault for my peoples attitude in this country it is because of your races instituionalized racism and colonialism.

ScareJew88 said:
You see, that's where you're wrong. You always have the option to set up your own schools, grow your own food, build your own projects, and supply your own welfare checks. If you let the white man do it for you, then there are always strings attached.
What does colonialism have to do with you?
You need to understand something, no matter what the libtarded people in the media say, white people in general don't care about you. Most have no ill will towards you, but they don't care. I include myself in that category; if you all dropped off the face of the Earth I might yawn.

UrbanWarFare said:
Colonialism is what brought my people here in the first place. Without the help of africans and native americans the white english pilgrims would have never successfully colonized America. That is the truth. Also i already new that white people don't care about black folks! And I find it to be huge problem within the black community about wanting to be accepted by the white majority.

Scorpio said:
That's fucking laughable. Niggers picked cotton, nothing more. African slaves were a tiny, insignificant speck in American history.

UrbanWarFare said:
And thats exactly why there enslavement lasted 400 years and a war was fought over the 3/5 compromise right.

ANH said:
The Civil War was NOT fought over niggers. You need to read some unbiased history.

UrbanWarFare said:
hows about you read some unbiased history about when it was time for elections in congress, each southern state pleaded for all there slaves to be counted as citzens so that they could have more delegates in the house of representives in congress. Instead each slave was only counted as 3/5 of a person and them white folks in the south sure didnt like that because there population was not relative to there amount of delegates. Thats when there succession effort came about.

ANH said:
Counting them as 3/5 of a human was far too generous. They are not human and should count as no percentage of one.

Hail Victory said:
Let the bullets splatter nigger brains all over the concrete!
88!
-HV

dababydroman · Mar 5, 2011

who said god couldnt create all this with a human way to explain it?

ChubbySoap · Mar 5, 2011

bread dog...

dababydroman · Mar 5, 2011

is that a pure bread dog?

ChubbySoap · Mar 5, 2011

donno...the wife gots the AKC papers somewhere..

destructo · Mar 5, 2011

Kartel Kriminal said:
I experience life and do as I freely will. Mistakes of perception, memory, and logic begat from social, emotional and other habitual patterns. Not something I'm supposedly prone to.

Our brains are prone to certain kinds of errors that only careful critical thinking can correct. This "six-pack of problems" may lead many of us unconsciously to accept false ideas:

· We prefer stories to statistics.
· We seek to confirm, not to question, our ideas.
· We rarely appreciate the role of chance and coincidence in shaping events.
· We sometimes misperceive the world around us.
· We tend to oversimplify our thinking.
· Our memories are often inaccurate.

Kartel Kriminal said:
You make it sound like science is more productive and useful than anyones faith or religion has ever been.Thats a phat NO. "Useful information"? Do I have to use the "S word" again?

To rephrase this; you are saying that faith and religion is more productive and useful to humanity than science is. Might I also add technology to this sentence since science and technology are fully connected. Without science and technology, the human race would be reduced to almost nothing. If one were to completely wipe all traces of science from human history, we would be without language, technology (which even includes the most basic tools such as hammers), medicine, mathematics, logic, statistics, rational thought, history, law, geography, communication, biology, chemistry, the list goes on. I ask you to imagine how life as a human would be if you lived just as any other animal on this planet with only your instincts to live by. If you think about it, I would seem that faith and religion wouldnt even exist if it were not for science. Humans have an uncontrollable urge to learn and discover new things. It is this curiosity that defines who we are as a race; it separates us from the animals. We are unlike anything else on this planet. If you take that away, we are nothing special.

To quote Albert Einstein, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

One can follow science and be religious simultaneously, but they must be kept separate in the mind. Religion is on a different level when compared to science. They both follow completely different philosophies which is why arguments always arise between the two.

Kartel Kriminal said:
I chose to defend religion and you and some others chose to generalize my beliefs. I haven't been putting religion over science this whole time. I've been comparing them and thats just so frustrating to you folks.

None of us have generalized your beliefs. We see the flaws in your argument to us and feel the need to bring them out in the open for discussion. If you feel the need to discontinue this course of action, feel free to. You have not frustrated me in the slightest, I enjoy this type of conversation and hope you choose to continue.

Kartel Kriminal said:
Padawanbater2 said:

Reality is not subjective, you seem to think it is. This is the very reason the scientific method exists as it does - to eliminate the subjectivity of reality and observe what is OBJECTIVELY true to all of us. I couldn't care any less about your own little subjective reality, why? Because it means nothing to me, it's useless to me, to anyone else who is not you..

Click to expand...

Its good to see your emotional. That makes it easier for me to defeat you. Your taking what I've said out of context because that is your only scape goat now. My reality is just as real as your reality. There is no requirement for you to care about something that is only unique to me.

I dont see the relevance of anything that was said here. It appears to be nothing more than an emotional attack on someone that prefers rational argument.

Kartel Kriminal said:
Padawanbater2 said:

You're wrong. You can sit here and say the faith required to believe in a god is the same kind of faith scientists use when coming to conclusions all day long, but the bottom line is you're wrong. You don't understand the words you're using, if you did you would realize the arguments against your points are completely valid yet you sidestep them when brought up.

Click to expand...

So basically the mode now is to criticized and save face. Your full of crap to be frank. I haven't sidestepped one issue yet. That was a false statement you made as well as a weak move to desparately criticize me. Every post thats been directed towards me I've confronted head on. I understand every word I use but I don't understand your lack of respect.

Indeed, you have sidestepped issues; for example your usage of the word subjective. It was not a false, weak, and desperate move to criticize you. He was trying to explain the different usages of the word faith that you refuse to accept in this argument. I have previously made two posts in response to you on this thread and have not received a response.

Kartel Kriminal said:
Padawanbater2 said:

Tell me one thing, just ONE thing that religion - that is, ANY religion - has given us that science couldn't. Guess how many things science has given us that religion couldn't...

Click to expand...

Comfort, spiritulism, hope, determination, integrity, foundation, ethics, and morals. You can take them or leave them.

Skeptics Society said:
As a social primate species we evolved a deep sense of right and wrong in order to accentuate and reward reciprocity and cooperation, and to attenuate and punish excessive selfishness and free riding. As well, evolution created the moral emotions that tell us that lying, adultery, and stealing are wrong because they destroy trust in human relationships that depend on truth-telling, fidelity, and respect for property. It would not be possible for a social primate species to survive without some moral sense. On the constitution of human nature is built the constitutions of human societies.

Kartel Kriminal said:
What your ideas lack I have already attained through faith. Hows about I invert what you just said to criticize you? Science is searching for something when there is no damn good reason to. I don't necessarilly believe that but both science and religion are stagnant. Stagnant in explaining issues of our demension and the origion of human life.

Ill give you this, religion is stagnant. Nothing has changed in religion for a very long time. Science on the other hand, is far from stagnant. A tremendous amount of scientific research is being conducted in every scientific field. Science cannot ever become stagnant; there will always be something new for us to desire an understanding of.

Browse this website; ten minutes of reading should convince you that science is not stagnant. Better yet, do some of your own research on the subject.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/

Anyways, Im tired. :sleep:

ChubbySoap · Mar 5, 2011

Then, as now, science requires more than imagination and determination....it requires funding.
Since those with the greatest minds are seldom those with the most assets, i believe science can indeed become easily stagnant.
I've watched it happen during my own lifetime even...
O__o

Heisenberg · Mar 5, 2011

Kartel Kriminal said:
Your being aggressive now. I like that. I do as I freely will and I'm not programmed to be prone to anything was the point. That was clearly stated in the first sentence or atleast I thought it was. Theres nothing more half baked about me than there is you. You still have a moot point because everything you say is spawned out of spite for your opposing faction which is organized religion, rather than disproving me and my beliefs.

The mistakes I am referring to are not a matter of free will. I am not trying to single you out for making mistakes; any human brain is not only capable but likely to make these types of mistakes. Critical thinking mistakes transcend race, gender, upbringing, generation, ect. I have singled you out for your use of invalid debate tactics but when I use a phrase like half-baked, I mean it as factual, not belittling. Your ideas seem to be half thought out and very prone to bias.

A good example of an invalid debate tactic is your last sentence here.

You still have a moot point because everything you say is spawned out of spite for your opposing faction which is organized religion, rather than disproving me and my beliefs.

What your saying is, every argument I might make is invalid because I am spiteful of religion. Is that not generalizing my statements? How about specifically pointing out where my arguments are wrong and why? Show me where spite is tainting my perspective. We will get further that way than if you just sling mud.

Kartel Kriminal said:
I feel as if I'm fighting a battle on several fronts. I apoligize to you all for losing my train of thought as well as my composure. After I do some reviewing of this thread as well as some research,I'll be back to post my thoughts.

Yep I can see how you would feel out numbered with all of us picking apart every post, but keep in mind none of us trying to express contempt. Some of us get short tempered because we have heard these same invalid arguments over and over. If you continue to defend invalid logic with more invalid logic, then you are likely to get more and more curt responses because we see it as a waste of time. Try to keep in mind that when we attack an argument or bad logic, we are not trying to attack you. We all fall into the category of ignorant on some level, the difference is in those who are willing to admit, learn and grow. Notice how we are not just pointing out your ignorance, but also trying to provide a little insight to help overcome it. I realize that can come off as a bit obnoxious, but were not talking about opinions or politics here, were talking about facts. My goal is not to bring anyone around to my way of thinking, but to expose them to it and myself to theirs and hopefully everyone ends up a little more enlightened in the end.

As for your post detailing hate rhetoric... Don't go looking for logic or valid opinions from hate groups, you'll drive yourself insane. If you truly want to learn about common logical mistakes and deceptive debate tactics, we are more than willing to guide you. I know personally, being a type of minority, learning the ins and outs of critical thinking helped a lot during times I felt the target of hate.

Padawanbater2 · Mar 5, 2011

Heisenberg said:
Yep I can see how you would feel out numbered with all of us picking apart every post, but keep in mind none of us trying to express contempt. Some of us get short tempered because we have heard these same invalid arguments over and over. If you continue to defend invalid logic with more invalid logic, then you are likely to get more and more curt responses because we see it as a waste of time. Try to keep in mind that when we attack an argument or bad logic, we are not trying to attack you. We all fall into the category of ignorant on some level, the difference is in those who are willing to admit, learn and grow. Notice how we are not just pointing out your ignorance, but also trying to provide a little insight to help overcome it. I realize that can come off as a bit obnoxious, but were not talking about opinions or politics here, were talking about facts. My goal is not to bring anyone around to my way of thinking, but to expose them to it and myself to theirs and hopefully everyone ends up a little more enlightened in the end.

As for your post detailing hate rhetoric... Don't go looking for logic or valid opinions from hate groups, you'll drive yourself insane. If you truly want to learn about common logical mistakes and deceptive debate tactics, we are more than willing to guide you. I know personally, being a type of minority, learning the ins and outs of critical thinking helped a lot during times I felt the target of hate.

Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis. Great post, sir

mindphuk · Mar 5, 2011

Kartel Kriminal said:
I feel as if I'm fighting a battle on several fronts. I apoligize to you all for losing my train of thought as well as my composure. After I do some reviewing of this thread as well as some research,I'll be back to post my thoughts.

There would be no need for 'battle' if you would take just a few minutes to examine your claim and then compare it to the arguments that are much more obvious equivocations. You criticized my critical thinking skills, now where are yours? Critical thinking is something we have to teach ourselves, it is not natural for us to think this way as destructo has pointed out. Learning fallacies and how to avoid them is one of the first things you learn when learning how to debate, which is an application of critical thinking and logic. You admission that it is your goal to get the better of us rather than actually learn about something is a problem. The definition of a closed mind is when you refuse to consider alternatives to your own POV and looking for ways to counter our points rather than actually examine them to see if maybe we have a point is closed minded. There is no conflict with being spiritual and science. It would cause no harm to your faith and spiritual beliefs if you suddenly realized that science doesn't depend on faith. In fact, I would be curious what you believe would be the worst thing that could happen if you actually accepted the idea that science is a methodology that allows us to learn truths about the natural world. You are currently using many forms of technology that are derived from what we learned from science. If science didn't work as well as I claim it does, then the technology based on science likewise wouldn't work. Science is not only self-correcting but self-confirming. Being able to land a vehicle on Mars and drive it around for a few years taking pictures and testing soil is a testament to the truth of many theoretical models that come from many different disciplines in science.

SmokeyMcSmokester · Mar 5, 2011

i dig your posts heisenberg..youd be a good guy to get stoned with and bullshit about shit.

karri0n · Mar 10, 2011

destructo said:
Ill give you this, religion is stagnant. Nothing has changed in religion for a very long time.

This is simply not true. New religions spring up and die every day. Especially in new age religions, the latest in scientific theory is examined and applied.

I'm sure you were referring to organized religion, but even in this case, I can assure you even the sermons at evangelical churches of today differ greatly from those of even 20 years ago.

Padawanbater2 · Mar 10, 2011

If the word of God was subject to change, what would make it divine?

What's Wrong With Science?

Kartel Kriminal

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mindphuk

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Kartel Kriminal

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Kartel Kriminal

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dababydroman

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destructo

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Heisenberg

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