PPACA - The Facts

tokeprep · Oct 12, 2013

ChesusRice said:
Wow what an asshole
After they spend 85% on customers

You think they make 15% profit?

And you are a master at economics?

You fucking fail. And to think I used to have respect for you

Now let's examine that. The cost of insuring a family of four was $18,000 in 2010, when Obamacare was passed; in 2013 it rose to $22,000. Now work your MLR math out. In 2010, the insurance companies would have been entitled to $2,700; in 2013, they're entitled to $3,600.

How do you keep your profits up despite the MLR? Raise the premiums. That's exactly what insurance companies have done.

Edit: I also point out that health insurance companies are presently worth more than they ever have been. Why? Because no one is expecting they're going to lose a cent to Obamacare, ultimately.

Doer · Oct 13, 2013

Flaming Pie said:
Here is the calculator on healthcaredotgov

https://www.healthcare.gov/how-can-...-and-savings-on-marketplace-health-insurance/

They hide it really well. Had to go to individuals, how can i see how much with out applying, bottom of that page kaiser, link on the next page.

For me:

28k income

1100payment with 4500 deductable

So I have to spend 5600 a year for health coverage to kick in. That is 466 dollars a month.

So if I don't have to go to the doctor I get taxed 3.6% of my income. If I DO have to go to the doctor the government wont help me until I have spent 20% of my income. Gee thanks.

That is fucked up....the funny part is at my income, the tax to avoid ObamaTax is a smaller %, but a much bigger dollar bite. And I won't even bother to add the Zero on the right side of your figure. That is what I already pay.

OTH, I have consumed $Millions and still live to type another day.

For me, since I see clearly that all sides LIE, and being contrarily influenced completely, I say....so what? It is what it is. It is the law but already jacked beyond law. SNAFU.

The curse of these Interesting Times is your Preferred Media Outlet and what NewSpeak double=think, you happen to pick up as cocktail party preference.

Talking to Dad about 1984, he said there is another way to do it, he thinks. Instead of culling the dictionary down to just a few hundred words, you could bloat it into millions of words, whos' meanings are very slippery. This too, is perfect for double=talk.

Same thing, right? Instead of the meaningless void beyond a few ALLOWED words, we have meaninglessness in a sea of a billion words no one really understands.

The truth is always stranger than fiction.

pSi007 · Oct 13, 2013

tokeprep said:
Now work that out relative to their revenues and they still make tens of billions of dollars every single year.

Good point but its $10+ billion per month, not year.

..The insurance companies will earn an additional $100 billion+ annually, thanks to ObamaYoMoma Care and it`s mandate. Cheese Rice, I have read the "Forbes" report of $100million trying to defeat ObamaCare, it's bullshit. Smoke and mirrors, money laundering and bribery. The real hand-shake was for the MEGA DEAL of Gov and public funds pumping into the insurance companies over the lifetime of this shit-hole mandate.

From the uninsured 50 million Americans, the mandate will force $10s of billions per month to the insurance companies in "extra earnings". See who wrote the bill now? Scared yet? This will morph into martial law, this is NOT what you progressive idiots were thinking it would be. In 10 years, this will be crippling debt and financial ruin.

Big Government in America = corruption, not progress.

Maybe through some educated reading, Some of you people have learned something. "You People"..

schuylaar · Oct 13, 2013

pSi007 said:
Good point but its $10+ billion per month, not year. ..The insurance companies will earn an additional $100 billion+ annually, thanks to ObamaYoMoma Care and it`s mandate. Cheese Rice, I have read the "Forbes" report of $100million trying to defeat ObamaCare, it's bullshit. Smoke and mirrors, money laundering and bribery. The real hand-shake was for the MEGA DEAL of Gov and public funds pumping into the insurance companies over the lifetime of this shit-hole mandate.

From the uninsured 50 million Americans, the mandate will force $10s of billions per month to the insurance companies in "extra earnings". See who wrote the bill now? Scared yet? This will morph into martial law, this is NOT what you progressive idiots were thinking it would be. In 10 years, this will be crippling debt and financial ruin.

Big Government in America = corruption, not progress.

Maybe through some educated reading, Some of you people have learned something. "You People"..

this country would have plenty of revenue with the following:

1. uncap wage base limit for social security
2. tax church cults - this is huge, religion needs to pay its way
3. tax increases for top 1% - they do not pay their fair share
4. phase out/sunset tax incentives for taking your business abroad
5. reform for offshore and overall reform of tax code

pSi007 · Oct 13, 2013

schuylaar said:
this country would have plenty of revenue with the following:

1. uncap wage base limit for social security
2. tax church cults - this is huge, religion needs to pay its way
3. tax increases for top 1% - they do not pay their fair share
4. phase out/sunset tax incentives for taking your business abroad
5. reform for offshore and overall reform of tax code

This goes against the master plan of the 1%, especially #3,4,5. Shit like that gets presidents shot.. I`m moving to Switzerland, fuck American Communism.

ChesusRice · Oct 13, 2013

I want single payer with a optional private market.
This is what we got and its better than nothing.

If we ever do have the debate again on single payer you can be sure the republicans will defend obamacare as the best solution

tokeprep · Oct 13, 2013

schuylaar said:
this country would have plenty of revenue with the following:

1. uncap wage base limit for social security

I don't remember the exact stat from the Social Security Administration, but I think it was that 80% of wages earned are already fully taxed. That doesn't leave you much revenue to take. And obviously if you actually eliminated the wage base limit and gave someone with a $1 million salary a new bill for $100,000 they're going to find ways to reduce their wages, like taking stock instead of cash, which would enable them to pay nothing in social security taxes.

2. tax church cults - this is huge, religion needs to pay its way

I don't think there should be a charitable deduction for anyone, whether the donation is going to a church or the Gates Foundation.

3. tax increases for top 1% - they do not pay their fair share

Enlighten us, how much would that be? In 2009, the top 1% paid 37% of all federal income taxes. In 2012, they took in about 19% of household income, and that was a record year.

4. phase out/sunset tax incentives for taking your business abroad

Perhaps, but that's barely going to get you anything.

5. reform for offshore and overall reform of tax code

What do you want to reform? If you impose American income taxes on income derived from foreign countries that has already been taxed by those countries, you destroy the ability of American companies to compete with those anywhere else in the world, since those foreign companies face no similar disadvantage with foreign income. In the long run, you don't get extra revenue.

schuylaar · Oct 13, 2013

pSi007 said:
This goes against the master plan of the 1%, especially #3,4,5. Shit like that gets presidents shot.. I`m moving to Switzerland, fuck American Communism.

right, which means we need to outlaw the lobby..which incidentally have only been around for 150 years and are the bane of all existence..lincoln should have done it right then and there..guess he had his hands full..i think it was next on the agenda after the show at fords..

Doer · Oct 13, 2013

schuylaar said:
right, which means we need to outlaw the lobby..which incidentally have only been around for 150 years and are the bane of all existence..lincoln should have done it right then and there..guess he had his hands full..i think it was next on the agenda after the show at fords..

What would that mean exactly....no more talking to Congress? Lobby is the way the Congress knows the will of business.

Nothing at all wrong with it and is the only way our system can work. Congress is informed through many means, including informal and formal Lobby large interests and small.

It is kinda like saying outlaw change.

schuylaar · Oct 13, 2013

Doer said:
What would that mean exactly....no more talking to Congress? Lobby is the way the Congress knows the will of business.

Nothing at all wrong with it and is the only way our system can work. Congress is informed through many means, including informal and formal Lobby large interests and small.

It is kinda like saying outlaw change.

oh paaaaaaaleeeeeeze..lobbyists are the biggest dirtiest, greediest bunch out there and its what keep weed illegal..congress can be informed via letter/email of businesses' wishes..just like "we the people" have to do..

Doer · Oct 13, 2013

schuylaar said:
oh paaaaaaaleeeeeeze..lobbyists are the biggest dirtiest, greediest bunch out there and its what keep weed illegal..congress can be informed via letter/email of businesses' wishes..just like "we the people" have to do..

You keep waving your hands. I'm asking for details of exactly how you would outlaw that. Just saying it sucks....I say it all does.

Mister Sister · Oct 13, 2013

"The Obamacare regulations appear to have even eclipsed what Wikipedia considers the longest published novel in either the Latin or Cyrillic alphabets. Artamène, or Cyrus the Great (in French: Artamène ou le Grand Cyrus) is a ten-volume, 13,095 page novel containing 2,100,000+ words." source: http://obamacarewatcher.org/articles/350

This is one fact that scares me. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, clowns. So read up, then pay up. Your life is in the hands of the US government now. Congrats, you earned it.

Red1966 · Oct 13, 2013

schuylaar said:
this country would have plenty of revenue with the following: 1. uncap wage base limit for social security 2. tax church cults - this is huge, religion needs to pay its way 3. tax increases for top 1% - they do not pay their fair share 4. phase out/sunset tax incentives for taking your business abroad 5. reform for offshore and overall reform of tax code

1. Turn Social Security into a revenue source instead of a safety net 2. Throw out freedom of religion 3. Fair share in whose opinion? The poor pay nothing, and receive vastly more than taxpayers. Shall we sell their children into slavery so the parents pay their "fair share"? 4. There are no tax incentives to take your business abroad. There are punitive taxes to bring it back. 5. Too vague to comment on.

schuylaar · Oct 13, 2013

Doer said:
You keep waving your hands. I'm asking for details of exactly how you would outlaw that. Just saying it sucks....I say it all does.

symposium..money need not exchange hands

Red1966 · Oct 13, 2013

pSi007 said:
This goes against the master plan of the 1%, especially #3,4,5. Shit like that gets presidents shot.. I`m moving to Switzerland, fuck American Communism.

I don't believe you'll really move to Switzerland. Switzerland is a poor choice if you want to avoid communism

Red1966 · Oct 13, 2013

ChesusRice said:
I want single payer with a optional private market. This is what we got and its better than nothing. If we ever do have the debate again on single payer you can be sure the republicans will defend obamacare as the best solution

Still try to tell others what they think?.........lol..........

Red1966 · Oct 13, 2013

Doer said:
What would that mean exactly....no more talking to Congress? Lobby is the way the Congress knows the will of business. Nothing at all wrong with it and is the only way our system can work. Congress is informed through many means, including informal and formal Lobby large interests and small. It is kinda like saying outlaw change.

Let's outlaw change!

Red1966 · Oct 13, 2013

schuylaar said:
oh paaaaaaaleeeeeeze..lobbyists are the biggest dirtiest, greediest bunch out there and its what keep weed illegal..congress can be informed via letter/email of businesses' wishes..just like "we the people" have to do..

NORML is a lobbyist.

schuylaar · Oct 13, 2013

Red1966 said:
1. Turn Social Security into a revenue source instead of a safety net 2. Throw out freedom of religion 3. Fair share in whose opinion? The poor pay nothing, and receive vastly more than taxpayers. Shall we sell their children into slavery so the parents pay their "fair share"? 4. There are no tax incentives to take your business abroad. There are punitive taxes to bring it back. 5. Too vague to comment on.

hmmm let's see how much we poor receive here in our sunshine state:

1. SNAP $200/monthly=6.60$/day..dollar menu..wooooohoooo!
2. MEDICAID..nope, need a minor..state expansion you say?..again, nada
3. Unemployment 175$/week..yup you read right..350$ bones to spend anyway you wish every two weeks
4. Water 1x 180$..but they changed the rules and most don't qualify for this anymore
5. Electric 1x cap of 600$ same..you can only qualify yearly with their benefit year which works out to more than yearly and they won't do a thing for you unless you are sitting in the fucking heat with your AC and lights off..final notice doesn't cut it even if you qualify..you must be without power..

oh, the bliss of entitlements..

Doer · Oct 13, 2013

Red1966 said:
NORML is a lobbyist.

Yes, the Lobby is a good thing. And it is protected speech. So, it is anti-con to try to outlaw it.

***PPACA - The Facts***

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PPACA - The Facts